IHP Green color

[hoser]

Ok I have found quite a few Indian Head Pennies and just about all but a hand full were this very cool looking green color. Ranging from a darker forest green to a lighter teal green. I have also found a ton of wheat pennies that might have a hint of a green color on them but nothing like the IHP. I know the metal makeup is bronze copper as the early wheats were to a point. Just curious as to why the IHP are soooo cool in color. Just like todays zincolns are .....ugh.... well you know.

 

[Cfmct]

Ok I have found quite a few Indian Head Pennies and just about all but a hand full were this very cool looking green color. Ranging from a darker forest green to a lighter teal green. I have also found a ton of wheat pennies that might have a hint of a green color on them but nothing like the IHP. I know the metal makeup is bronze copper as the early wheats were to a point. Just curious as to why the IHP are soooo cool in color. Just like todays zincolns are .....ugh.... well you know.

Its most likely moss growing on them Bill....

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[hoser]

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hoser, I agree that the emerald green patina (assuming no further corrosion) makes them very appealing. In fact, even numismatic buffs sometimes put a higher value on a good patina. As if that enhances the value.

And at first blush, the copper + alloy ingredients of IHs, vs teens wheaties, vs 1940s/50s wheaties , is exactly the same, right ? Yet it's only the IH's and the early teens wheaties that get that desirable patina. The reason for this (as I've heard it explained), is that uncle Sam gets copper on the open-market, at whatever the predominant mining region is, at a given time. So for example in the 1890s to 1910s, perhaps Montana was the primary source of copper mining. But in the 1930s to 1950s, perhaps Idaho was the primary source.

And as they move geographic region to geographic region , there are slight impurities in the copper, that vary from place to place. And it is those slight impurities that affect the color.

That's the explanation I've heard, and ..... it sounds reasonable to me

 

[hoser]

Tom that sounds right. I do have a question though as there was a lot of copper taken from the Keweenaw peninsula in the early days and I have to wonder if this was part of the green patina thing. Michigan is, or was a big copper producer in the early days. And I wonder if that copper was of a different chemical makeup to produce this green color.

 

[kac]

Copper content varied over the years. Pennies were either copper/nickel alloy 1859-1864 or in the Bronze class of Copper Zinc and tin 1864-1909. The Patina is from the copper breaking down from the environment as acidic ground, or fertilizers react with the copper. Copper/Nickel Alloys don't hold up well in the outdoors, that includes flying eagles and nickels.
I believe the bronze hold up better because of the tin in them.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....The Patina is from the copper breaking down from the environment as acidic ground, or fertilizers react with the copper. ....

Do you mean : The time spent in the ground, during which they were exposed to these ^ ^ factors ? If so, then this doesn't fully explain the phenomenon. Because if you were to drop a 1910 wheatie, and a 1950 wheatie, in the ground at the exact same time (say .... in 1950), and go back and dig them up NOW, you would find that they have different color patinas. The 1950 penny will likely be an ugly orange. But the 1910 will have a chance at the desirable green patina.

And notice that this is true EVEN THOUGH THEY WOULD have been in the ground for the EXACT same amount of time, and EVEN THOUGH they have EXACTLY the same ingredients. So the theory is that the copper varied slightly, in impurities, as the chief copper mine producing regions tended to be different, during different decades.

 

[hoser]

Tom I wish you could see the copper mines in the UP. It's quite the education. There are places up there that detecting is difficult due to the copper ore still in the ground. Yooper should come on here and tell you what it's like to hunt up there. Flow copper is awesome to find.

 

[rreahard]

Good question. I always just assumed it was variations in the copper itself and the environmental factors the coin/object was exposed to.

 

[too_pointer]

hoser, I remember you finding an Indian in my relations garden across from where I grew up, think it was the first one I ever seen. That was awhile go ! lol
too_

 

[kac]

Ground conditions vary quite a bit. I have never seen extreme difference in coins when pulled nearby each other other than older ones tend to be more degraded.
Take in consideration iron content in the ground, how wet the area might be. Types of trees in the area ie pines vs maples. Was it once open farm land that had fertilizer? There are man factors. There could be variations in the copper itself that was used.
Here is an IH that had good amount of crud but not bad with patina. Land was a dairy farm at one time and now used for hay so it probably didn't have fertilizer dumped on it other than what the cows left behind

 

[markinswpa]

Ok I have found quite a few Indian Head Pennies and just about all but a hand full were this very cool looking green color. Ranging from a darker forest green to a lighter teal green. I have also found a ton of wheat pennies that might have a hint of a green color on them but nothing like the IHP. I know the metal makeup is bronze copper as the early wheats were to a point. Just curious as to why the IHP are soooo cool in color. Just like todays zincolns are .....ugh.... well you know.

So here in Sw-Pa. I seem to get more toasted one than the nice greenies. I agree with Tom's explanation but I also think the type of soil its in plays a big part as well. My second oldest and one of my nicest came a little more than a year ago. It was what the Hoover Boys refer to as a one wiper, and it pretty much was just that.

 

[hoser]

My second oldest and one of my nicest came a little more than a year ago.

Oh that 1865 is awesome for sure. Love the color a lot. Well done, and thanks for sharing.

 

[q52]

So here in Sw-Pa. I seem to get more toasted one than the nice greenies. I agree with Tom's explanation but I also think the type of soil its in plays a big part as well. My second oldest and one of my nicest came a little more than a year ago. It was what the Hoover Boys refer to as a one wiper, and it pretty much was just that.

Most my smooth green ones come from the fine-grained black topsoil.

 

[hoser]

Come to think of it, All the ones I have found have come from dark or black soils. COOL!

 

[markinswpa]

Most my smooth green ones come from the fine-grained black topsoil.

So where in the hell are you ?

 

[markinswpa]

Oh that 1865 is awesome for sure. Love the color a lot. Well done, and thanks for sharing.

Hoser, a little bit off topic but that same yard gave up at that time my #1 bucketlister, A seated silver. and it was a beautiful 1888 seated quarter. Also a nice 1840s something LC, a 1864 Ihp a couple Mercs, a Rosie along with a bunch of other cool finds. That was Dec. 21 & Jan. 22. Fast forward to this past Jan. I went back there with the 900 and dug my oldest silver, an 1886 seated dime. I had dug every repeatable signal I could find. And as q52 stated it was that old black soil. IMO there is nothing better than seeing silver in that type of dirt. OK now I'm psyched I gotta go find some old silver. Ha ha.

 

[q52]

So where in the hell are you ?

Louisville lol