Here's the speed and cost of a typical SMF processor.

[Carl-NC]

Fair enough Carl, but that wasn't the point of my post.

My post was to disprove the idea that the controller is the bottle neck in detector speed. I only showed the price of $3 to 5$ to additionally prove that even if that controller wasn't fast / powerful enough, it wouldn't take much more money to get a much better controller.

OK, understood. And you're right. But I can't recall a time where the micro was ever the bottleneck in detector speed. Very capable designs have been done on lowly 8-bit PICs, the MXT, for example. Generally, improvements in processor power have always preceded the demands in detector processing. That is, no one is sitting around waiting for a better processor. A 480MHz M7 is probably overkill for any detector and, like you said, if you do want more it's easily available, right now.

 

[Carl-NC]

Just saying it could be better. Take Nokta. There profit taking for the product they sell is much lower that say ML or XP

A lot of this depends on overhead. I suspect business in Turkey is lower than business in Australia. Taxes, labor rate, regulations, etc. Typically a company targets a certain profit margin, maybe 50%, so that the wholesale price is 50% profit. This is what pays for development, tooling, and the like. For Minelab, a 50% profit margin on the Eq800 might be $300, for Nokta a 50% margin on the Legend might be $200.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

$38 in raw material? I know that the BOM for just the PCB is typically in the $50 range. In any case, I suggest you buy all the raw parts and build your own detector, including writing all the software. Oh, and you also have to buy all the tooling for the injected plastic. One way or the other, you'll feel better.

Sorry, but even with all that, they're still ripping people off. The startup cost is high, but once they're set up, a company like Deus is making a cool $1,500 profit per detector. They don't need to sell too many of them to break even on the deal. Then they make a huge profit on every one they sell after covering expenses.

I always love these threads where people who have no idea about what it takes to create a product complain about what they have to pay for the product. My suggestion is, don't buy it.

I don't buy their product. No way would I spend a grand or more on a metal detector. It's just a hobby for me. Some people take it WAY too seriously, like it's a contest or something.

 

[sube]

Sorry, but even with all that, they're still ripping people off. The startup cost is high, but once they're set up, a company like Deus is making a cool $1,500 profit per detector. They don't need to sell too many of them to break even on the deal. Then they make a huge profit on every one they sell after covering expenses.



I don't buy their product. No way would I spend a grand or more on a metal detector. It's just a hobby for me. Some people take it WAY too seriously, like it's a contest or something.

Some people save on future med bills easier on the arm had to run my nox today charging battery for deus 2 .
I ran a CTX for 11 years and using the nox that short time today I could feel it .
The deus 2 makes a big difference med bills are not cheap either . sube

 

[FreeBirdTim]

I've been swinging my AT Pro with the 8.5x11 coil for around 7 years now with no real issues. I do develop something similar to tennis elbow if I detect too many days in a row. But that's probably an old issue that flares up once in awhile. Used to love to play sandlot baseball when I was a kid and threw way too many curveballs back then!

 

[BobOso]

$38 in raw material? I know that the BOM for just the PCB is typically in the $50 range. In any case, I suggest you buy all the raw parts and build your own detector, including writing all the software. Oh, and you also have to buy all the tooling for the injected plastic. One way or the other, you'll feel better.

I always love these threads where people who have no idea about what it takes to create a product complain about what they have to pay for the product. My suggestion is, don't buy it.

it is not just detectors Carl, but everything. If I was building sheds, someone would come by and say that's too much, then look to find one for less, not looking at quality in the first.

 

[TheFrood]

I prefer to use math to figure things out. Just using fixed costs with some basic numbers can give you an idea of per-unit costs on products.

So if a company has 50 employees averaging $50k/year that's 2,500,000/year in wages.
So the company will have to sell a minimum of 2000 widgets clearing $1,250 each above
all other costs just to make payroll.

Obviously the above is just some random numbers pulled out of the air, but still...

It's not surprising that detectors are so expensive considering how niche the market for
them is. I'm surprised at the low cost and variety of really good detectors that are available
at all when I consider the costs involved in designing, testing, assembling, shipping, etc.

 

[The Lama]

A lot of this depends on overhead. I suspect business in Turkey is lower than business in Australia. Taxes, labor rate, regulations, etc. Typically a company targets a certain profit margin, maybe 50%, so that the wholesale price is 50% profit. This is what pays for development, tooling, and the like. For Minelab, a 50% profit margin on the Eq800 might be $300, for Nokta a 50% margin on the Legend might be $200.

Exactly, not to mention currency exchange rates i got into a little bit of an argument with jmaclen here about how a country with a weak currency such as Turkey or a country that artificially keeps their currency weak like China is able to sell their products much cheaper with the same profit margin.

 

[Cherry Picker]

The speed of that controller is a measly 480 MHz. Yet, that is enough to run a modern SMF detector.

And that is like saying a measly 480 HP to run a bicycle.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

So if a company has 50 employees averaging $50k/year that's 2,500,000/year in wages.
So the company will have to sell a minimum of 2000 widgets clearing $1,250 each above
all other costs just to make payroll.

Got this quote from a post here a couple of years ago, but it does show that they're not having any trouble making payroll. Looks like they're ripping people off, as I stated before.

"Codan is the parent company of Minelab. The year end financial report came out today. A record 90 million in after tax profit. 42% growth in recreational metal detector sales. Metal detection over all makes up 326.5 million in sales."

 

[maxxkatt]

I'm sure the folks who own and use one appreciate you're comment.

Steve

Deteknix is now renamed Quest. Same Chinese Company. Detectors made by them in China. I think the people who buy a metal detector made in china will eventually figure out they have been taken for a ride.

 

[Diga]

Deteknix is now renamed Quest. Same Chinese Company. Detectors made by them in China. I think the people who buy a metal detector made in china will eventually figure out they have been taken for a ride.

I'd bet a lot of the components of any metal detector, from any metal detector company, are made in China, Malaysia, or other low production cost countries.

 

[cellrdwellr]

I'd bet a lot of the components of any metal detector, from any metal detector company, are made in China, Malaysia, or other low production cost countries.

So true

 

[maxxkatt]

you may be right about that. But the big, big difference is take apple for instance. Iphones made in china WITH EXTREME QUALITY CONTROL PROCEDURED IN PLACE. When you buy directly from a chinese company, you rarely get those type of quality control procedures. Some encouraging news -

In 2023, Mexico overtook China as the No. 1 source of goods imported to the United States for the first time in over two decades, according to data from the U.S. Commerce Department.

The value of imports from Mexico rose almost 5%, to more than $475 billion, from 2022 to 2023. At the same time, the value of Chinese imports plummeted 20%, to $427 billion.

 

[Diga]

you may be right about that. But the big, big difference is take apple for instance. Iphones made in china WITH EXTREME QUALITY CONTROL PROCEDURED IN PLACE. When you buy directly from a chinese company, you rarely get those type of quality control procedures.

That's right. Just because something is made in China, doesn't by necessity mean it's low quality. It all depends on what the main company wants....just like your Apple example. Another example would be the Minelab Voyager which is made in China.

Speaking of Minelab, it wouldn't surprise in the least, if they move all production to Malayasia or China, to take advantage of the low manufacturing cost.

 

[The Lama]

The issue for me is the Chinese government allowing and participating in the stealing of trade secrets and ignoring patent law and other such things that show they are not willing to compete fairly so I try very hard not to purchase anything that will help them

 

[Cherry Picker]

Made in China USED to be a bad thing, but not anymore. China can make some really good stuff, and they can make some really cheap stuff. Just like here in the good old USA. Well, not so cheap price-wise here in the US, but crap.

They make some really well built guitars and some real pieces of crap for example.

That said, I do agree with Lama. The CCP does control pretty much everything. A lot of our military secrets go to CCP via cheap electronics made in China, and someday we'll regret it. In my opinion, buying computers & network equipment from China is pure stupidity.

 

[jmaclen]

Exactly, not to mention currency exchange rates i got into a little bit of an argument with jmaclen here about how a country with a weak currency such as Turkey or a country that artificially keeps their currency weak like China is able to sell their products much cheaper with the same profit margin.

My “argument” with you was not about that. I totally agree with you. In the case of Nokta, that is just not the only reason that they are able to keep their prices low. That is part of their owner’s often stated business model which is to offer the best detectors they can for the lowest price that is still profitable for them instead of marking up their products as high as the consumer can stand. Now, whether that is actually what Nokta is really doing as opposed to say Minelab on the opposite end of the spectrum……who knows.

 

[maxxkatt]

during the cold war we were smart, we did not trade with communist russia or communist china. But now we are funding china's military with all of our trade with them. Thanks pres nixon and henry kiss. I would say more, but this is not a political forum.