Getting Permission -- Do I Need It?

[Jason in Enid]

Jason, everything you're saying is equally true (ie.: "shouldn't do it") with the mere fact of standing there too. Then let's cut to the chase: The man shouldn't have even been standing there, to have observed these things, in the first place (yet I notice no one chided/reprimanded him for that).

Thus yes, everything you're saying is true, sure. Just pointing out the irony that is missed in posts like this.

So your solution is to encourage him go from a very minor crime, which at the most will result in an officer telling him to leave, to offenses he could easily be arrested for?

 

[robren]

Ok guys - Really doubt any cop or concerned citizen would walk out the 2 plus miles to see what I was up to. I wouldn't feel comfortable unless I was sure it was public land. I will try to find out the owners of this land -- I'm curious now. It is very near the town line so I'm not pursuing this into the next town, there are plenty of other spots.
I will be attending the next meeting of the ''conservation committee''. I'll keep my mouth shut and get feel for what this group does. They should be able to answer some questions for me. Don't want to show my hand right away.

Mud - I did email the town clerk and aked if there was a list of abandoned property. Excellent idea. Is the ending quote on your last post on your family crest? You crack me up.

Nectar - You have the best idea -- make the land owner come to me. Brilliant!!!

 

[Chipk]

A 22 year old metal detectorist in Britain found a massive treasure trove about 5 years ago. BUT it wasn't his property and he didn't have permission and he received.....NOTHING for finding the wealth.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So your solution is to encourage him go from a very minor crime, which at the most will result in an officer telling him to leave, to offenses he could easily be arrested for?

Ah, here's the discrepancy then: How do you figure one is "very minor" and other is major reprehensible ? Why can't he be arrested for walking his dog there? Why is the addition of a metal detector only *then* make it despicable ? Why can't an officer also tell him to leave when there with a detector (versus his dog) ?

I'm not saying that one is right or legal versus the other (nor are you), just pointing out that for some reason we seem to have this image that "everyone hates md'rs" and that this hobby is somehow intrinsically horrible, dangerous, evil, etc... Since when ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

A 22 year old metal detectorist in Britain found a massive treasure trove about 5 years ago. BUT it wasn't his property and he didn't have permission and he received.....NOTHING for finding the wealth.

I'm willing to bet that if any of us found a "treasure trove" on public l and (park, forest, desert, etc...) and subsequently walked into the city, state, or county offices and ask "can I keep it?", that we too would be told "no".

Like if tomorrow I find a 1916D merc. in perfect shape, in our local park: If I walk into city hall and say: "Hi, found this coin worth $10k in your park. Can I keep it for my own fun and enrichment, or does this belong in the city coffers or museum?". What do you think their answer would be ?

 

[T-Man]

If I ever stumble across an valuable treasure trove in a public part I will immediately have some of it buried in my backyard garden that I just recently tilled up. (Hmmm how did that get there??? lucky me) Found on my own private property.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Ah, here's the discrepancy then: How do you figure one is "very minor" and other is major reprehensible ? Why can't he be arrested for walking his dog there? Why is the addition of a metal detector only *then* make it despicable ? Why can't an officer also tell him to leave when there with a detector (versus his dog) ?

I'm not saying that one is right or legal versus the other (nor are you), just pointing out that for some reason we seem to have this image that "everyone hates md'rs" and that this hobby is somehow intrinsically horrible, dangerous, evil, etc... Since when ?

you know the answer Tom, because you have gone down this road 100 times before, but I will answer for those who haven't had that misfortune of your rants. Trespass laws are generally very similar, and do not allow for arrest for a first offense of simple trespass. If the you are in the system as a habitual trespasser, you can be arrested. But as I stated before, trespass and metal detecting now becomes a laundry list of crimes, which can also be felonies depending on the value of land destruction or value of targets stolen from the true property owner.

 

[Mud-puppy]

A 22 year old metal detectorist in Britain found a massive treasure trove about 5 years ago. BUT it wasn't his property and he didn't have permission and he received.....NOTHING for finding the wealth.

Yeah! Excellent example of somebody who didnt think ahead! A common failure of a noobie to the game of trespassing who gets all excited and flaps their yap!
"Trespassing Pros" Never/Seldom get caught, they have years of experience, meticulously plan, time, go in with a purpose, get the hell out with the goods, and in the miniscule chance of a confrontation, always have a plausible story ready!!

You never hear or read about the Pros...shame actually, for all this hard earned Tribal Knowledge to go to waste, theres probably a 'Trespassers Forum' out there dedicated to this art, or at least I hope so!...I know we are talking about detecting, which is about the lamest/unprofitable reason on Earth to ever trespass!..(Unless theres gold involved of course)

Good Gosh how the fellow inmates would laugh! "You did what? Hopped a fence and dug up some pennies?" "Are you gay or something?" The guys that steal 200yr old black walnut trees right out of somebodies front yard unnoticed are the real masters!

Although, there was this one guy I heard about, in hushed tones around a shrouded campfire back in 1980 I might nominate for an 'honorable mention', Statute of Limitations being expired and all...A recession had hit...

Unemployed, new born baby girl, no health insurance, desperate, Winter was coming etc. Too scared to sell drugs, and too honest to steal..But he could trap by God! He got into a Federal Wildlife Refuge, walking in on the back of a furious ice storm, at night, and trapped out every beaver, mink, and valuable furbearing quadruped...using snares, (illegal as hell, but, like he figured, go big or go home, had he been caught, he'd still be stamping out license plates at Graybar Inc!) skinned them all on the spot and left absolutely no trace or track...

You never hear about the guys that are good and successful at it...although I hope my Daughter passes along some stories to her children someday, of course for entertainment purposes only, bedtime story fodder, adventurer kind of things, Like Roy Chapman Andrews wrote about, and to a certain degree, Pat McManus' 'Scritchs Creek' trespassing tale sheds a good honest light on the subject, only the former was after fossils, and the other after trout!...

I do not condone or promote 'Trespassorial behavior', although I do appreciate it as a survival skill, Lord knows I dont want my Grandkids enamored with the thought to even attempt it, snaring beaver or for that matter Detecting! Risk/Reward ROI matrix evaluation... Theres more easy money in Black Walnut trees, or Hedge funds, or behind the Pulpit!....My how time flies...The Daughter turned 35 this Oct, seems it was just yesterday!...I still got a few Black Walnut slabs around here someplace...snares too...A guy just never knows..now excuse me, I have to head over and deliver this afternoons sermon...'Judge Not' is the title, should be some good easy nick in the collection baskets, I try to make it fun! ...
Mud

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Trespass laws are generally very similar, and do not allow for arrest for a first offense of simple trespass. ...

Ok, granted. Then the person "takes the warning to heart" and 1) doesn't walk his dog there anymore and/or 2) doesn't metal detect anymore. Who said anything about defiantly repeating despite the warning ?

 

[robren]

UPDATE -- steering this conversation in new direction

This weekend I've been scouring the Town website. I take back all the nasty things said about NH having almost nothing online. I've found the tax maps and owners address in the Assessors Dept. So investigation reveals the land I was originally talking about { middle of nowhere - between 2 lakes - no nearby roads - and it does continue into next town} is 310 acres owned by The Society to Protect NH Forests on left side of the road, and 174 acres owned by Grafton Pond Land Trust. Both ''entities'' are NOT local.

I'm going to write to each asking for permission to detect. There are 4 foundations that I've seen so far.

Need advise on what to include in this letter AND what, if anything, to leave out. I'm going to include some sort of place for them to sign and mail back to me in SASE.

Any advise is appreciated. Thanks

 

[joee5]

For starters when you write make no mention of digging holes.cutting plugs sounds tamer. If they need clarification,mthen elaborate for them your meaning.
Good luck

This weekend I've been scouring the Town website. I take back all the nasty things said about NH having almost nothing online. I've found the tax maps and owners address in the Assessors Dept. So investigation reveals the land I was originally talking about { middle of nowhere - between 2 lakes - no nearby roads - and it does continue into next town} is 310 acres owned by The Society to Protect NH Forests on left side of the road, and 174 acres owned by Grafton Pond Land Trust. Both ''entities'' are NOT local.

I'm going to write to each asking for permission to detect. There are 4 foundations that I've seen so far.

Need advise on what to include in this letter AND what, if anything, to leave out. I'm going to include some sort of place for them to sign and mail back to me in SASE.

Any advise is appreciated. Thanks

 

[HarveyH48]

Just Googled the forest society, site still loading... https://www.forestsociety.org/

You could probably Email them. Haven't read through the site yet, but they have a tab for recreation. Also, seems like they are anti-construction/development, but encourage people to enjoy the natural state of the lands they protect.

You should google some of the other names you dug up at the tax appraiser's website, see if they have sites as well.

Edit:

https://www.forestsociety.org/visiting-our-reservationsweve-got-place-you

Toward the bottom of the page, it list what you can, and can't do on their lands... Metal detecting is on the "don't" list. Still, it wouldn't hurt to ask about your specific location. Really sounds like they encourage the public to enjoy outdoor recreational activities, maybe metal detecting isn't appropriate for many of their properties, but would be okay in some.

Oh, they don't mind you walking the dog...

 

[robren]

Harvey - Thanks for doing some of my homework. It does take some time to dig thru and find where to look for information.

With a specific bullet point stating - ''No Metal Detecting'' should I pursue this?

How would you word that permission ask? Don't want the person opening the mail to roll their eyes and think '' What don't you understand about those 3 words?''

 

[Mud-puppy]

This is a tricky one.... non local land trust...'no detecting' right there in print...

Do they have an on site caretaker, local person? That person would be the one to ask face to face I would think, since He's likely the one who will see you out there and would be the 'enforcer' of the rules...Heck, he may not even have read them himself..might just be a guy who is contracted through the trust to mow the grass occasionally...

They might not even have one, in which case you would want to ask to BE the local guy who keeps an eye on the place for them! That should be an easy score...

Its easy to say NO to a letter or an email...all sorts of reasons, liability being the big issue now a days....face to face...I introduce myself and tell them I need a nice quiet place to walk the dog and take a few swings with the detector for therapy...make sure you pick up any trash and litter...

Anyway, those are just details...its all how you word it and face to face would be best.....dont do what I would do...not right yet!
Mud

 

[James W.]

Permission to hunt

Depends how much you like being shot at or how much you value your detector!

 

[robren]

Point taken Mud.

I'm not giving up, just trying to think it thru. Don't want to look too Stoopid.

 

[Mud-puppy]

Dont worry about looking stupid.....Contrary to my drunken diatribe here on your thread intended to foster debate and humor, mainly for me, I actually ask permission!

Lots of practice from my trapping days...Sometimes a Yes and sometimes a No...But they really have to see you to 'size' you up during the chit chat phase...once you determine they are comfortable that you are not an axe murderer or politician, you broach the subject, and 90% of the time you get a YES..(it helps if you got a name to drop for the 'transference of trust' factor).

If you are relaxed, happy, have a smile on, and present yourself as a responsible Adult who just wants permission to enjoy this property engaged in your chosen hobby.

Be persistent, NO just means for that specific day!
Mud

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... owned by The Society to Protect NH Forests on left side of the road, and 174 acres owned by Grafton Pond Land Trust. Both ''entities'' are NOT local.

I'm going to write to each asking for permission to detect. .... Need advise on what to include in this letter AND what, if anything, to leave out. I'm going to include some sort of place for them to sign and mail back to me in SASE.

Any advise is appreciated.....

How about asking them for a list of their rules. Like "I'm planning to hike through there, is there any list of rules that apply?". And once you get the list of rules, you check to see if there's any of them that say "no metal detecting". If not, then presto, it's not dis-allowed.

As for having someone there "sign" something to give you permission to metal detect, that would seem like the FASTEST way to get a "no". Anytime you tell someone to sign a legal document or letter, would only conjur up legal hassles, etc...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....
Edit:

https://www.forestsociety.org/visiting-our-reservationsweve-got-place-you

Toward the bottom of the page, it list what you can, and can't do on their lands... Metal detecting is on the "don't" list.......

Ah harvey found it . Oh well. But you gotta wonder how this entity, .... one day-way-back-when , ever came up with the idea that this needs to be dis-allowed ?

 

[HarveyH48]

I didn't read much of their site, sort of stop, when I found the Metal Detecting not allowed part. I don't think I'd give up on them, they really seem to want people enjoying the forest land they protect. They allow hunting and fishing, quite a few outdoor activities. Doubt they have anyone onsite, or a caretaker, since the idea seems to let the forest do it's thing, without help from man.

If you click the FAQ link on the site, there is one for metal detecting, and they do allow some people in to detect, but it's academic, and they need approval. Kind of leads me to believe they don't want just anyone to think it's okay to bring in the garden spade, and have at it.

Just shoot them an Email, be specific about where you want to hunt, why (it's near where you live). Be open an honest about, show you care about the forest, and won't be doing mass damage. Tell them about the small hand digging tool, shallow plugs, repair. Those metal bits you remove from the forest, never belonged there, and leach into the soil, changes the chemistry. Assure them you'll take the trash and treasure with you.

Your little spot, might not be very significant, and they might not be overly concerned about what you do there. Never know, until you ask, doesn't cost anything. Even though they don't like metal detectors, it's really cool they have these places, open to the public, and you can let your dog run free. My dog needs a leash, think he's inbred. He's not afraid of anything, real slow to learn. Still thinks that pitbull behind the chainlink fence, just wants to play, even though it's face is bloody, from try to get out, it doesn't act too friendly to me. My dog likes cats, and not in the normal way either, friendly, just as if they were another dog, except most would scratch his eyes out, if they were a little quicker with the slap.