I love seeing these posts where people poo-poo the pulse machine... I have found a lot of gold over the years that wouldn't have been found with discriminating machines... most of the guys I hunt with use pulse machines...
Do I really need a PI?
- Thread starter stewart73
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From the target counts I've seen from you guys hunting in Japan, I wouldn't be using a PI there. I use a PI on beaches where I go up to 15 minutes between targets, and find like 20 targets in 3 hours.
If I hear a target every few feet, I use the CZ21.
If I hear a target every few feet, I use the CZ21.
I like your PI math.
3.14R8
Elite Member
Stewart it sounds like you've answered your own question already.Your excal counts are high.Never quit on a winning streak!Never!!!ARRRRGH! lol
metaladdict
Elite Member
I agree,use the excal the most. Pulse is for clean beaches. I use mine when I have alot of time and am bored.
Photobret
Junior Member
I'll take it off your hands.... hehe.... $$$ in hand!
trsrseeker
Full Member
Do what works for you. The trouble pinpointing with the DF is a combination of the extra depth and lack of experience water hunting with the machine. Will definitely improve with experience but that time might be better spent for you using the Excal. I seem to remember your DF paid for itself in one hunt last year after a couple of hunts first cleaning out the trash.
My first winter water hunt with the DF this year after about a year of using the Excal and GT, I kept going sideways in the hole after not finding the target down three or four scoops - I was using Excal methodology - until I realized DUH I am using the DF the pinpointing is accurate just go deeper and bang there the targets were right where they should be five or six scoops down. Way further down than I ever have found with the Excal, although the GT with a large coil comes close but still not as deep.
The most effective way to answer your question would be to fly Craig over and let him loose in the water on that same spot you just hunted. You will have your answer one way or the other once he is done! This from someone who has never met Craig but benefited from his generous free advice on this forum! Personally I would still not be able to sleep until another go with the DF on that exact strip. Good hunting.
My first winter water hunt with the DF this year after about a year of using the Excal and GT, I kept going sideways in the hole after not finding the target down three or four scoops - I was using Excal methodology - until I realized DUH I am using the DF the pinpointing is accurate just go deeper and bang there the targets were right where they should be five or six scoops down. Way further down than I ever have found with the Excal, although the GT with a large coil comes close but still not as deep.
The most effective way to answer your question would be to fly Craig over and let him loose in the water on that same spot you just hunted. You will have your answer one way or the other once he is done! This from someone who has never met Craig but benefited from his generous free advice on this forum! Personally I would still not be able to sleep until another go with the DF on that exact strip. Good hunting.
Hotrod Tom
Elite Member
I have a calm water bay beach that I cleaned out with the Excal and found some gold and silver. I went back in the off season and spent the time to learn the DF. I found a lot more gold that the Excal passed right over. They are different machines for different jobs. I like to bring both so I'm ready for whatever conditions I find.
Tom_in_CA
Elite Member
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I'm gonna have to go with the vote of those who "poo-poo" the pulse. Yes there *is* gold items that wouldn't be found with a discriminating machine. Granted. Mostly tinsel thin chains and earing stud type stuff. Ok. HOWEVER: the upside is you can pass nails
If I were in a place where either a) there was numerous nails, hairpins, etc..> [even if only 1 to 5 ratio, etc...), or b) where I didn't lack for signals to choose from, and c) where sand/mineral conditions didn't mandate a pulse, then d) I would certainly choose a standard discriminating machine.
In the old days, this wasn't as clear cut. Because pulse machines used to get 2x the depth of any discriminating machine. However, nowadays, that gap has been closed. You can get about the same depth on each, for coin-sized targets . (barring some crazy deep pulse like the TDI or a nugget machine, with everything maxed out).
So if minerals isn't the issue, and depth is not an issue, and if targets-to-choose from isn't an issue, I'd rather have the machine that saves me from having to dig iron. Yes I realize I'll miss a tinsel thin chain, but ...... oh well.
I'm gonna have to go with the vote of those who "poo-poo" the pulse. Yes there *is* gold items that wouldn't be found with a discriminating machine. Granted. Mostly tinsel thin chains and earing stud type stuff. Ok. HOWEVER: the upside is you can pass nails
If I were in a place where either a) there was numerous nails, hairpins, etc..> [even if only 1 to 5 ratio, etc...), or b) where I didn't lack for signals to choose from, and c) where sand/mineral conditions didn't mandate a pulse, then d) I would certainly choose a standard discriminating machine.
In the old days, this wasn't as clear cut. Because pulse machines used to get 2x the depth of any discriminating machine. However, nowadays, that gap has been closed. You can get about the same depth on each, for coin-sized targets . (barring some crazy deep pulse like the TDI or a nugget machine, with everything maxed out).
So if minerals isn't the issue, and depth is not an issue, and if targets-to-choose from isn't an issue, I'd rather have the machine that saves me from having to dig iron. Yes I realize I'll miss a tinsel thin chain, but ...... oh well.
Fine... use whatever you want but I know even if my PI is 1 or 2 inches deeper than a discriminating machine I know I have the advantage over them... I don't dig nails, wire or bobbie pins because I took the time to learn my machine... last fall I hit a spot with my Excal and GT gold some silver and old relic type stuff.. the spot had plenty of shallow iron targets where as I would not have gone in there first with a PI.... but I did go in after hitting with the discriminating machine and dug only the deepest whispers leaving all the shallow sounding targets... I pulled buffalo nickels, V nickels, silver dimes, quarters, a silver half dollar and a gold wedding band the Excal 1000 and GT with the 10x12 never saw... my PI will see through the black sand a discriminating machines struggles in. A PI doesn't see a chain any better than a discriminating machine unless its large or has a large clasp.
As far as I am concerned the less PI's out there the better...
stewart73
Forum Supporter
I want to thank all you guys for your very helpful replies...lots of good information here.
Tom_in_CA
Elite Member
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Yes. Granted. Some beach pulse machines have an advantage in depth by an inch or two. But for other beach pulse machines, the gap got closed. For example: using a Sov./Wot combo, or a CTX with 17" coil, you can actually effortlessly exceed a foot on coin-sized targets nowadays. Like the Sov/Wot combo can push 14" on a penny, and deeper on quarters. So you can see that ... while those might be fishy to try to master, yet .... the depth difference is not as clear cut as it was ~20 yrs. ago
Hey, if you REALLY want to "have an advantage" over discriminators, by having a pulse, why not just use a GPX 5000 on the beach ? Heck, you can get a nickel to nearly 2 ft. deep with that puppy!
Yes. I have heard this claim before, by guys in our area who show up on our beaches with pulse machines. They say they can tell nails by-the-sound. But they fade away, and "head for greener grounds", when they end up on a beach riddled with nails (like after storms). Or you see them constantly digging a bunch "just to be sure". And the sound tricks to "out the window" when the nail is bent, right ? Only works when the nail is straight, eh ? Also: I'd wonder if those who are passing the sounds they think are nails, might be passing something like a gold stick pin, or elongated necklace, etc....
Granted. As I said in my post: an exception would be if some beach were nasty blackish metalic grey minerals, thus mandating a pulse.
Gold Digger 2
Elite Member
I'm gonna have to go with the vote of those who "poo-poo" the pulse. Yes there *is* gold items that wouldn't be found with a discriminating machine. Granted. Mostly tinsel thin chains and earing stud type stuff. Ok. HOWEVER: the upside is you can pass nails
If I were in a place where either a) there was numerous nails, hairpins, etc..> [even if only 1 to 5 ratio, etc...), or b) where I didn't lack for signals to choose from, and c) where sand/mineral conditions didn't mandate a pulse, then d) I would certainly choose a standard discriminating machine.
In the old days, this wasn't as clear cut. Because pulse machines used to get 2x the depth of any discriminating machine. However, nowadays, that gap has been closed. You can get about the same depth on each, for coin-sized targets . (barring some crazy deep pulse like the TDI or a nugget machine, with everything maxed out).
So if minerals isn't the issue, and depth is not an issue, and if targets-to-choose from isn't an issue, I'd rather have the machine that saves me from having to dig iron. Yes I realize I'll miss a tinsel thin chain, but ...... oh well.
Tom, please don't take this the wrong way but as scientific as you are about what you dig, I got to imagine you have past a lot of gold,,,,,,them tensel gold chains are like those pennies that are honker golds, and there are more of them out there than one thinks
GL HH
Yes. Granted. Some beach pulse machines have an advantage in depth by an inch or two. But for other beach pulse machines, the gap got closed. For example: using a Sov./Wot combo, or a CTX with 17" coil, you can actually effortlessly exceed a foot on coin-sized targets nowadays. Like the Sov/Wot combo can push 14" on a penny, and deeper on quarters. So you can see that ... while those might be fishy to try to master, yet .... the depth difference is not as clear cut as it was ~20 yrs. ago
Hey, if you REALLY want to "have an advantage" over discriminators, by having a pulse, why not just use a GPX 5000 on the beach ? Heck, you can get a nickel to nearly 2 ft. deep with that puppy!
Yes. I have heard this claim before, by guys in our area who show up on our beaches with pulse machines. They say they can tell nails by-the-sound. But they fade away, and "head for greener grounds", when they end up on a beach riddled with nails (like after storms). Or you see them constantly digging a bunch "just to be sure". And the sound tricks to "out the window" when the nail is bent, right ? Only works when the nail is straight, eh ? Also: I'd wonder if those who are passing the sounds they think are nails, might be passing something like a gold stick pin, or elongated necklace, etc....
Granted. As I said in my post: an exception would be if some beach were nasty blackish metalic grey minerals, thus mandating a pulse.
If you are looking for a debate head to the permissions sections Tom.
Carol and Vlad started this forum for the new guy/gal entering the hobby.. we try and help with our advice from our experiences over the years in the hobby...
I'm not going to post something that isn't true... I don't care whether you believe my claims or not to where one can discriminate by ear with a PI.
I told a friend my PI is like an extension of my arm... I took the time to really learn it well...
as I already mentioned.. stay on the poo-poo wagon and us PI users will find the gold scraps you leave for us.
Landshark
Full Member
Fishing Lures
I had a friend who made a fortune designing and making fishing lures. I did not understand it, because he wasn't a fisherman. He told me his secret.
" I design fishing lures to catch fisherman, not fish"
I have come to accept my fate:
1) As a fisherman I will always have more than one fishing pole.
2) As a prospector I will always have than one gold pan
3) As a detectorist I will always have more than one metal detector
4) As a polygymist, I will only have one wife, because there are some things a man is not that good at.
I had a friend who made a fortune designing and making fishing lures. I did not understand it, because he wasn't a fisherman. He told me his secret.
" I design fishing lures to catch fisherman, not fish"
I have come to accept my fate:
1) As a fisherman I will always have more than one fishing pole.
2) As a prospector I will always have than one gold pan
3) As a detectorist I will always have more than one metal detector
4) As a polygymist, I will only have one wife, because there are some things a man is not that good at.
Sven
Elite Member
I have no problem finding gold, silver with mine without having to dig tons of small foil..........to find the small gold...........and I don't dig much more trash than I do when hunting with a VLF. Then I don't run a high disc setting on a VLF....
Just like a VLF get the right PI for the right job.
Most of all learn how to use it....may take you 40-50 hours just to get the grasp before it clicks in.
http://www.treasurelinx.com/projects.html
Just like a VLF get the right PI for the right job.
Most of all learn how to use it....may take you 40-50 hours just to get the grasp before it clicks in.
http://www.treasurelinx.com/projects.html
Tom_in_CA
Elite Member
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gold-digger: Yes, re-read what I wrote, and I openly acknowledge that the non-pulse user is going to miss tinsel thin gold chains. Granted. Already acknowledged. But it's all a game of "Las Vegas" odds though, isn't it. Eg.: Let's say for example that I can dig 200 targets after storm erosion, before the incoming tide chases me out. But .... let's say 50 of them were nails. Then strictly speaking, if 200 were conductors (versus 150 + 50), then the odds go up for more gold items, in the end.
In other words: Yes I would be passing certain types of teensy gold, but on the other hand, I passed all nails.
Or put the logic to this test (albeit strained but, you'll see the point): Take the same logic of "don't risk missing anything", and take that beach pulse to the nearest inner city blighted park. Keep at it long enough, and I gaurantee you that you *will* eventually find a thin gold chain! But obviously you can see, that the price would simply not be worth it, right ? You'd be better off getting a standard machine, and angling for the deep old silver, versus "trying to be a hero" and rescue tinsel thin chains from junky parks.
Yes I realize beaches are in a different league (easier to dig, etc...), but just sayin' .....
I have seen many pulse users come to our local beaches. Perhaps they're not like beaches some of you are working (that perhaps lack iron). And multiple times have heard them say they can discern nails by sound. And sure, on a case-by-case random singular basis, perhaps they can . But when the beach gets to where there's so many nails, they resemble tooth-picks lying all over the ground, they pack their bags and leave. In fact, the following year, we see them sporting standard machines.
Tom_in_CA
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How about bent nails ?
There is one fellow I beheld with my own eyes, about ~20 yrs. ago. He had the fisher beach pulse machine at that time. I forget the model/type, but recall it had manual ground balance (rather than auto). He explained that it wasn't as popular as the Whites at that time, because the user had to continually fiddle with the balance as he walked further too, or further from, the water's edge.
But he swore by this particular pulse, because he said it gave much better tell-tale over iron, versus other pulse machines.
It JUST SO HAPPENED that a construction company had, just the week before, dug a bunch of sand out from a beach-side construction project next to the Boardwalk. And had dumped the sand out on to the beach. Multiple standard machines had gone through this pile (now washed flat by the surf) and found hundreds of silver coins, wheaties, clad, etc... But by the end of the week, had pretty much been picked out. It was FILLED with nails.
So when this guy with the fisher pulse came along, I just assumed he'd "only last a few minutes". But by golly, he did indeed pull a few more coins from the mess, while digging little-to-no iron.
I don't recall the type Fisher that was. But for any other pulse machine I've seen on our beaches, .... they tend to have to stick to the "cleaner beaches". Which is only 1 or 2 of dozens of beaches. The rest had wharves that burned down historically, or have allowed beach bonfires (which introduces nails), etc....
