Devil’s Den Preserve Weston, CT

There's the "shark attack" buzz-words again : "Case", "prosecution", etc.... Conjuring up images of arrests and tickets for detecting. Eh ? It seems to imply that the md'r was doing something wrong in this case. If that's a true-given-premise, then by all-means stay home. But I'm not so sure that needs to be a given-premise.



If there is any cases of someone in a nature preserve (with no specific rule, and not a historic site) who sincerely unknowingly wandered onto a archie trinomial # site, and as such, then became afoul of the "artifact" language (despite no marked sites, and no specific rule) yet was "prosecuted", then .... Let's please see the links. I doubt that any are forthcoming.



That's not to say that someone can't paint enough "connect-the-dots" *potentials* of "fears we should all be concerned about". And by following-enough-dots, so-too can I paint a picture where someone detecting the city sand-box could likewise be "prosecuted". But at a certain point ... sheesk .... can't we all agree that it can begin to get a little silly ?



Don’t want me there lock it up and label it. Of course that don’t apply to private property.

Sadly are schools around here are locking them up, practically every school in my area is behind locked gates.


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to ask for permission, if there were any rules.

Uhhh, ok. When you get hold of someone, When phrasing the question, be sure to mention : Dig, and holes, and remove/take, and artifact, and Indian bone. After all, you don't want to mince words. You want them to understand the full implications of your question. And : Ya can't be too safe, eh ?

But .... seriously now ....: What happened to our prior conversation in this thread ? After considering all of that, you're still going to go risk that whimsical Russian Roulette? To someone who .... perhaps never had it cross their mind ?

Thus far you've satisfied yourself that the ONLY thing that could remotely apply to you, is the dreaded "artifact" word. Ok, then how about this : If you're dead-set on talking to a live person, then : Instead of asking "Mother may I metal detect?", Instead, simply ONLY ask: "How is artifact defined ?". I'll bet you dollars to donuts (if they consult their legal sources) they will tell you that it's : Items over 50 yrs. old.

Then ... presto, you've fulfilled your desire to talk to a live person. You've covered your bases in studying the laws/rules. You've even gone-so-far as to make sure your activities don't fall afoul of any of the said-rules. And you're not finding items over 50 yrs. old. Then : What's not to love about that ? Then you don't play "Russian Roulette" with someone's arbitrary whimsical "no". And you have-their-name-to-cite, if any busybodies approach. Eg.: "Fred from the office said Ok, as long as it's for modern objects" Eh ?

to ask for permission,...

Because remember, you don't need "permission" for this. No more so than you need "permission" to fly kites, or skip stones on the pond, for example (might poke someone's eye out). Instead, a person would (if they were skittish) look up to see if there's any rules forbidding throwing stones or flying kites.
 
Uhhh, ok. When you get hold of someone, When phrasing the question, be sure to mention : Dig, and holes, and remove/take, and artifact, and Indian bone. After all, you don't want to mince words. You want them to understand the full implications of your question. And : Ya can't be too safe, eh ?

But .... seriously now ....: What happened to our prior conversation in this thread ? After considering all of that, you're still going to go risk that whimsical Russian Roulette? To someone who .... perhaps never had it cross their mind ?

Thus far you've satisfied yourself that the ONLY thing that could remotely apply to you, is the dreaded "artifact" word. Ok, then how about this : If you're dead-set on talking to a live person, then : Instead of asking "Mother may I metal detect?", Instead, simply ONLY ask: "How is artifact defined ?". I'll bet you dollars to donuts (if they consult their legal sources) they will tell you that it's : Items over 50 yrs. old.

Then ... presto, you've fulfilled your desire to talk to a live person. You've covered your bases in studying the laws/rules. You've even gone-so-far as to make sure your activities don't fall afoul of any of the said-rules. And you're not finding items over 50 yrs. old. Then : What's not to love about that ? Then you don't play "Russian Roulette" with someone's arbitrary whimsical "no". And you have-their-name-to-cite, if any busybodies approach. Eg.: "Fred from the office said Ok, as long as it's for modern objects" Eh ?



Because remember, you don't need "permission" for this. No more so than you need "permission" to fly kites, or skip stones on the pond, for example (might poke someone's eye out). Instead, a person would (if they were skittish) look up to see if there's any rules forbidding throwing stones or flying kites.


Ok I’ll count on you to bail me out, pay any legal fees and be my lawyer :laughing:
 
Ok I’ll count on you to bail me out, pay any legal fees and be my lawyer :laughing:

Ok, sure ! Just make sure you use that "other pocket" for your 51+ yr. old coins :laughing:

But ... seriously now: The allusions to "bail" and "legal fees" and "lawyer" (yes I know you're joking) are just more of the same premise implication : That you are doing something wrong. If that is a true-given-premise, then: By all means stay home . But as I say: Since when is that a starting premise ?

To-whatever-extent you can "fret yourself silly" that something ancillary might apply, then : When that day comes, that all-such-ancillary-verbiage automatically applies, unless given a "princely say-so" to the contrary, then :

That's the day that we should all give up all md'ing at every speck of public land everywhere. Because I can guarantee you that I can find various forms of "ancillary language" that "might" apply to our hobby, on every speck of public land. If you squinted real hard, asked enough pressing questions, and wore neon yellow, etc.... And to-whatever-extent it's our duty to run-around and make sure that they don't apply, is the day that we might as well all just give up .

The only way you're going to get someone in authority to pat you on the head and say "No it doesn't apply" and "Yes I give you permission" is : To ask. And the moment THAT starts, is the moment it only becomes a vicious self-fulfilling vicious loop of safe answers and swatting hornet's nests.

Good luck. Glad no one's doing this in my area.
 
Because remember, you don't need "permission" for this. No more so than you need "permission" to fly kites, or skip stones on the pond, for example (might poke someone's eye out). Instead, a person would (if they were skittish) look up to see if there's any rules forbidding throwing stones or flying kites.
Isn't it Nature Conservancy property, or did I read something incorrectly? If it is TNC land, then it's not public and there may be rules against detecting.
 
Isn't it Nature Conservancy property, or did I read something incorrectly? If it is TNC land, then it's not public and there may be rules against detecting.

It might be possible to "split hairs " on whether or not this is labeled "public " or not. The same type of semantics arise for locations like fairgrounds : Where someone could say " the fairgrounds executive committee " owns it ( or a board of directors, or whatever). And leases it for a dollar a year from the county. Blah blah.

But in all such cases (like with the nature preserve here) : There's tons of public using the facility, and none of them are trespassing. Right ? So then, the real issue is: What are the rules of use ?

And with that said: The O.P. has posted the rules of use. And you will note that metal detecting is not listed on there.
 
It might be possible to "split hairs " on whether or not this is labeled "public " or not.
Ummmmm…there’s no splitting hairs here. TNC Land is not public land.



The same type of semantics arise for locations like fairgrounds :
Again, it’s not a matter of semantics.



And with that said: The O.P. has posted the rules of use. And you will note that metal detecting is not listed on there.
Well, that is open to debate…as others have mentioned. There is a lot of grey area based on the wording in the rules of use. And, as even you have pointed out, the rules of use posted at the site itself often times do not necessarily cover everything.
 
Isn't it Nature Conservancy property, or did I read something incorrectly? If it is TNC land, then it's not public and there may be rules against detecting.

Yes, it’s TNC land and now looking at the website is private. Thank you
 
... There is a lot of grey area based on the wording in the rules of use. ....

Yes. And "grey area" is wonderful. It means not disallowed.


... And, as even you have pointed out, the rules of use posted at the site itself often times do not necessarily cover everything.

Yes. And if someone is skittish, they can avail themselves of where the laws/rules exist, in written form somewhere. And if it doesn't say "no md'ing", then ... there ya go.
 
Yes, it’s TNC land and now looking at the website is private. ...

Yet, oddly, people still go there and use it on a daily basis . But of course, our actions (md'ing) is inherently evil and harmful (till told otherwise). So we can't compare our actions to birdwatching, hiking, flying kites, and other totally legitimate uses of that space. Because ours, is akin to hand-grenade practice and other sorts of mayhem. Hated and abhorred by all, of course.

Naturally, I am jesting. But to point out that no one is "staying away" from there. The public uses it all the time. The issue therefore is: The actions that a person undertakes there. And if we start with the premise that md'ing is inherently wrong, harmful, dangerous, etc...., then yes : By all means don't do it. Grovel away.

I never realized what a horrible hated hurtful hobby I was in.
 
That's because the type "private property" (that is easily conjured up when the term "private property" is bandied about), is NOT the type "private property" that is in play here.
What are you talking about?

the average person thinks of "private property", we immediately think of people's ranches, front yards, or whatever. Eh ? But the "private property" here, is of the type where ...... so too .... has there been debate over schools, for example. Because the "school board" is said to "own it" (leased for $1 per year , or whatever).
This is absolutely nothing like that. TNC is a non-profit oranization that buys properties and then they own them. They're not leasing them for a dollar or whatever. They own it. It's theirs.

Or like in my city, for example, we have a Rodeo Grounds (the 4th or 5th largest in the year I think). It's used for tractor pull competitions, rodeos, sports events, concerts, etc..... Yet if you sleuthed deeply enough into their charter or title, it would show that the "board of trustees" leases it from the city, or some such thing. Or the "lease-buy-back" type thing. Yet for all practical purposes, it's public in-use (and yes .... it's been metal detected ad-nauseum. Someone even found a gold coin there :cool: )
Again...this is completely different.
 
What are you talking about? ... .

Here's what I'm talking about : Assuming you own your own home, that is "private property" . Right ? Hence there is not 100 people per day that can freely come and go from your back-yard. Right ? Even if all they did was stood their motionless. You would shoo them away, telling them : "This is private property". Why ? Because it's your private property, and strangers can't just go waltzing in and out of your back-yard to bird-watch , etc... Right ? They would be trespassing. Right ?

Ok, what is the difference between THAT type of "private property", and the type of private property of this nature preserve ? The nature preserve has hundreds of people each day, who come to enjoy the usage of the preserve. None of them are "trespassing".

... TNC is a non-profit oranization that buys properties and then they own them. They're not leasing them for a dollar or whatever. ....

But would you concede that this location is open-to-the-public. Right ? Assuming they're abiding by the rules-of-use. Right ?

Sure, they can "call whatever shots" they like, as-regards to the things they allow, versus not allow. Granted. But guess what ? : The same can be said about public parks too. They too invite the public to come. And they too make rules of use (dogs on leash, no fireworks, etc...)
 
Are you allowed to metal detect in this park? It’s not a state park but it is a preserve. I was gonna call tomorrow but if anyone has any info or has been there before please feel free to share. The website has the following info below. I’m afraid to call because maybe they will say no because they don’t want you there but maybe there’s no actual law saying no?


https://imgur.com/gallery/L3QYe5U



Its not a good idea... Devils Den has archaeology sites in there.. they could take your detector as well as make an example of you... I will send you a PM on a better spot that I have hunted in past and you should enjoy.... lots of good stuff... don't take a chance on listening to someone who doesn't hunt here...

Just because they mention a few cellar holes does not mean I want to hunt it... they clearly advertise what is inside the the preserve... they also clearly state that the taking of artifacts is a no-no plus no digging...

https://www.nature.org/content/dam/tnc/nature/en/documents/DevilsDenTrailMapTNC2019SmFile.pdf

I have never hunted it btw... its also part of the watershed area in Redding and Weston another No go...
 
Here's what I'm talking about : Assuming you own your own home, that is "private property" . Right ? Hence there is not 100 people per day that can freely come and go from your back-yard. Right ?
Because I have not opened my property to the public.




Even if all they did was stood their motionless. You would shoo them away, telling them : "This is private property". Why ? Because it's your private property, and strangers can't just go waltzing in and out of your back-yard to bird-watch , etc... Right ? They would be trespassing. Right ?
Correct...just like they would be doing on some TNC lands where they do not allow general access to to the public. Opening your property to public use doesn't make it public property. It's still private property and the TNC can set the rules.




Ok, what is the difference between THAT type of "private property", and the type of private property of this nature preserve ? The nature preserve has hundreds of people each day, who come to enjoy the usage of the preserve. None of them are "trespassing".
Correct, because they ALLOW public access. That's not the same as a school that leases the land for a dollar.



But would you concede that this location is open-to-the-public. Right ? Assuming they're abiding by the rules-of-use. Right ?
Yes...the TNC has opened their private property to limited public use.





Sure, they can "call whatever shots" they like, as-regards to the things they allow, versus not allow. Granted. But guess what ? : The same can be said about public parks too. They too invite the public to come. And they too make rules of use (dogs on leash, no fireworks, etc...)
Public lands are not treated the same as private lands. What is it about this concept that you seemingly don't understand.
 
....What is it about this concept that you seemingly don't understand.


Flies-only, it's been an interesting discussion. And as you probably surmise : We can go back and forth forever.

So all I'll do is comment on this last question of yours : I have no doubt that they are different types of entities. And so too are there various forms, within each of those umbrella titles. Right ? Ie.: Just as there is a difference between that "private land" and your "private land", so too is there differences in different types of public parks. The list of "differences" is endless.

All I'm trying to point out here, is that after cutting though all the discussion, you have acknowledged that this place 1) allows the public (won't be "trespassing"), and 2) subject to certain rules-of-use.

I have not looked into cfmct's post about their being archaeological hot-spots in THIS particular location. If so, as I have always said : "Avoid obvious historical sensitive monuments". Right ? Then that would cover this revelation. Nothing, up-till-now had been said about that. It was just "nature preserve".

But the bottom line is, even without Cfmct's link (Ie.: If it had had ZERO archie-spots), then: That would still not change your stance. You would still say it's a no-go "till given an express allowance ". Heck, you've said that about public parks, so HOW MUCH MORE-SO for something like this ?
 
I have not looked into cfmct's post about their being archaeological hot-spots in THIS particular location. If so, as I have always said : "Avoid obvious historical sensitive monuments". Right ? Then that would cover this revelation. Nothing, up-till-now had been said about that. It was just "nature preserve".
The rules/regulations stated no removal of artifacts. Remember the whole grey area I mentioned...and that you dismissed, stating that the regulations did not specifically say "no metal detecting" and therefore you said it was therefore OK to detect? Yikes...turns out you were wrong about that? Golly, it seems that asking for clarification was the correct thing to do!!!





But the bottom line is, even without Cfmct's link (Ie.: If it had had ZERO archie-spots), then: That would still not change your stance.
The rules were ambiguous and I would have done what the OP did...ask for clarification. You, however, apparently would have detected regardless, since it did not specifically disallow it.




You would still say it's a no-go "till given an express allowance ". Heck, you've said that about public parks, so HOW MUCH MORE-SO for something like this ?
I have said I would ask if I needed/wanted clarification OR if I could not find any rules regulations dealing with detecting.
 
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