detector was confiscated

[Robin D]

This is an old thread!

Just as an FYI to everybody; this is an old thread originating back in '08. The originator's last posting was in July of '08. I don't know if he is part of the forum any longer.
It's interesting to me how some old posts get resurrected to new viewing life.

RD

 

[Cfmct]

I emailed the OP hopefully he will comeback and respond...

 

[JBEXPRESS]

Just as an FYI to everybody; this is an old thread originating back in '08. The originator's last posting was in July of '08. I don't know if he is part of the forum any longer.
It's interesting to me how some old posts get resurrected to new viewing life.

RD

Yes we know or at least I did, I even posted it earlier on. So I really doubt we will know what happened. Oh well.

 

[IntoIt]

People just dissapear sometimes I suppose. If you go way back you see all sorts of members you never hear from.
I guess metal detecting isnt for everyone, or do we stink

 

[Florida Tabdigger]

Interesting read. I think if he wasn't a police officer things would have been different. If it were me I would have been cuffed and stuffed, as Rosko would say.

 

[blacksambellamy]

I don't have time to post right now but i promise i will post tonight with an update

 

[Drosera]

Glad we'll get to hear the end of the story!

If the land you want to search belongs to the Federal Government make sure you know which agency regulates it. Anything under the National Park Service is completely and totally off limits. National Parks, National Seashores, National Recreation Areas, and National Monuments are all part of the NPS.

Despite the similar sounding name, National Forests are NOT part of the NPS and detecting is allowed, although you need to make sure that any particular forest doesn't have off limits areas.

 

[IntoIt]

You know, We have a simple hobby. Very low impact compared to the laws that were intended to protect these lands. They were passed to keep backhoes from tearing up the holy sites or at least the ambitious hunter from tearing it up with a shovel.
Granted it is Illegal to hunt but bear in mind we are Americans in America and need to be given some amount of leeway with a simple misunderstanding. I suppose that's what the courts are for but lets take a little pressure off the courts and have these civil service servants show some sense or get those that can.
We have done a pretty good job of watching the speedometer, paying our bills and taxes on time,we don't intend to hurt anyone or anything we just made an innocent mistake.
Is that really so bad in human terms? Forget the government terms when you consider what I say.
We take allot of crap as Americans. we dont need any more from our goverment.
But thats just my opinion.

 

[JBEXPRESS]

I don't have time to post right now but i promise i will post tonight with an update

YAY!!! Please let us know what happened!

 

[h20hawgs]

What type of research was it? Are you an archaeologist or a historian???

 

[Drosera]

You know, We have a simple hobby. Very low impact compared to the laws that were intended to protect these lands. They were passed to keep backhoes from tearing up the holy sites or at least the ambitious hunter from tearing it up with a shovel.
Granted it is Illegal to hunt but bear in mind we are Americans in America and need to be given some amount of leeway with a simple misunderstanding. I suppose that's what the courts are for but lets take a little pressure off the courts and have these civil service servants show some sense or get those that can.
We have done a pretty good job of watching the speedometer, paying our bills and taxes on time,we don't intend to hurt anyone or anything we just made an innocent mistake.
Is that really so bad in human terms? Forget the government terms when you consider what I say.
We take allot of crap as Americans. we dont need any more from our goverment.
But thats just my opinion.

I think the National Forest Service policy is a pretty good model for other agencies to follow. I say this based on what the official written policy is, I'm hoping that the forest service workers are following it in practice. I've linked the policy below, it is worth reading. In short they say metal detecting is allowed as long as it isn't in archaeological or historic areas. I also like that they say those areas are to be posted as such.

Obviously metal detecting on the Gettysburg battlefield or similar places should be banned, and is probably one of the main reasons the National Park Service has a ban on detecting in the first place. It just seems lazy to have a one size fits all law when more reasonable rules like the NFS uses could be implemented instead.

Here is a link to the National Forest Service policy:
http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/For We...d Rock Collecting on the National Forests.pdf

Here is the section most directly related to most of us:

Recreational pursuits: The most common form of metal detector use is searching
for gold nuggets, lost coins, jewelry, and incidental metal items having no
historical value. Such use is common in developed campgrounds, swimming
areas, and picnic areas and requires no permit. However, one must assume
personal responsibility to notice if the area may indeed contain archaeological or
historical resources and if it does, cease metal detecting and notify a Forest
Service office. Not doing so may result in prosecution under the Code of Federal
Regulations or ARPA.

 

[Smooth23]

Recreational pursuits: The most common form of metal detector use is searching
for gold nuggets, lost coins, jewelry, and incidental metal items having no
historical value. Such use is common in developed campgrounds, swimming
areas, and picnic areas and requires no permit. However, one must assume
personal responsibility to notice if the area may indeed contain archaeological or
historical resources and if it does, cease metal detecting and notify a Forest
Service office. Not doing so may result in prosecution under the Code of Federal
Regulations or ARPA.

I don't like that wording AT ALL. Simply saying detecting in an area you assume might contain archaeological or historical stuff could lead to rangers and others saying "oh you should have known" and filing charges. Also, who are they to decide what constitutes valuable relics from the past? I won't even get into the argument that those things shouldn't be left in the ground anyhow!

 

[IntoIt]

I don't like that wording AT ALL. Simply saying detecting in an area you assume might contain archaeological or historical stuff could lead to rangers and others saying "oh you should have known" and filing charges. Also, who are they to decide what constitutes valuable relics from the past? I won't even get into the argument that those things shouldn't be left in the ground anyhow!

Well thats just it..Someone is out there looking and probing. It just seems weird to me.
Are we a bunch of idiots that cant think.? I think we care enough to know what we are doing and much more.

 

[deepfoot]

I dont believe in my letter metal detecting was mentioned. But my letter was to advise them of my research and direct them to my website. On the website it clearly states im metal detecting. The ranger mentioned my email and he was aware of the response i got. He also said the person who sent the email was really not authorized to do so. He mentioned he fully believes i had good intentions and that the rangers really didn't know what to do about me. In the end he said he believes they just want the relic plane i found back. I do believe him but after i return the plane i hope they dont slap me w/ charges.

I think this is going to work out alright, but don't you see the situation they are in. They cannot say you recovered the plane, a person who was metal detecting in a no go zone.

If you give them the plane then they can say they recovered it, but if you offered it and they accepted they would have to say you recovered it and obviously they don't want to say that or for anyone to know that.

I can see why you're confused, it's internal politics at work.

At least that is my take on it.

 

[Drosera]

I don't like that wording AT ALL. Simply saying detecting in an area you assume might contain archaeological or historical stuff could lead to rangers and others saying "oh you should have known" and filing charges. Also, who are they to decide what constitutes valuable relics from the past? I won't even get into the argument that those things shouldn't be left in the ground anyhow!

I don't mind it. Do you have a better way of saying this? They need some way to protect undiscovered sites. If they don't have a clause like this then there will be people who find a spot like that and say "hey, I can take all I want because this wasn't marked as an off limits area". Not all people with a detector are as conscientious as the people on this forum. By the way, if you haven't read the entire document I linked I highly recommend doing so. I just quoted a small part of it.

Honestly, I'm thrilled with the NFS policy. It is detecting friendly. They just tell you to leave historical sites alone, that known ones will be marked, and tell you what to do if you come across an unmarked one unexpectedly. How many other Federal, State, or Local agencies have such explicit rules about metal detecting that are so metal detecting friendly? On the national level only the BLM seems to have a similar policy, and I can only confirm that for CA (although BLM is definitely federal) and they don't go into such detail. Most state parks either ban detecting outright or limit it to very few areas in a couple parks. City parks usually have no clear rules meaning your always at risk of some city worker kicking you out with little recourse.

 

[Michigan Badger]

This member hasn't been here in 2 years...I believe he was hunting on the Cape Cod National Seahore where metal detecting is banned...

Ya, I saw that.

In our area several THers hunt state owned lands for relics and if caught will suffer the same fate or worse.

Lots of people hunt rented house sites by permission of the renter who has no such authority.

Everybody today thinks public school property is open to everyone for THing. This is not correct and hunting/digging without permission from those at the top is vandalism of school properties. Rarely does anyone enforce this but it's true.

There are many other such examples. The point being our hobby is at it's very best...how can we say it?...slightly off color.

But hey, cops sometimes pull "shady" stuff to catch other "shady" people. Life is filled with things a little off center.

We're basically "good" people but there really ain't no perfect holy folks down here.

 

[blacksambellamy]

It was nice to see my posting came back to life.... i appreciate the support.

I will try to keep this short and to the point. I returned the drone complete with all the research i had done on it. They helped me unload it and then tossed it into a garage never to see daylight again. The deal was, if i returned the drone they would give me my metal detector back. But soon after it was unloaded that deal apparently never existed. Before i left i couldn't help but notice about a dozen confiscated metal detectors that the park police had hung on the walls like trophy's, and i knew mine would soon be joining them.

Believe me the thought of fighting them had entered my mind but i didn't have the stomach for the battle that lay ahead of me. It was much easier/cheaper for me to go home and purchase another $800.00 detector.

What gets me the most is they way i was treated. I had detected there for years accumulating artifacts from the old army base and never once was i stopped. The sign that had the rules and regulations NEVER EVER said no metal detecting, yet while i was detecting that day they hammered a brand new sign into the dune.

Hard to believe i know, but it wasn't there when i entered the beach.


Then came the pat down,the reading of my rights, the confiscation of my detector and the items i removed from the beach ( 1 penny and a few pretty rocks for my daughters) YES....they took the rocks because they were park property. All of this for what?

Please Remember, i contacted them to let them know about the drone i had found. I was never trying to steal or remove artifacts in the darkness of night and keep them for my own personal and financial gain. I just made a mistake.

I had given them my contact information and the web address of the site I made dedicated to the troops who served there. On that web site i listed who i was and the research i was doing. I spent countless hours researching the Camp and trying to accumulate information to add to the site. They could have called at any time to advise me what I was doing was illegal.

I could ramble on but take a look at my site for yourself www.campwellfleet.com. After seeing what I was doing did i really deserve the treatment that i got? I know if you ask the NPS they would tell you i got off easy. But to me if this got exposed (Me the WRONG guy) would come out looking like a hero. Between the war going on and vets coming home by the thousands the media would have a field day with this.


Bottom line is i think the NPS should have handled this situation different.


Any other questions just ask me.

also pics of the drone are on that site.... I forgot to mention they also fined me 50 bucks

 

[Mycirus]

Well thanks for the update. I am on the Cape and was interested in this. I would have thought nothing of going out to the National Seashore and detecting. I would have thought it was just another beach. Looks like I wont be doing that any time soon.

 

[blacksambellamy]

Yup dont do it. I also forgot to mention that i had the GPS numbers for the location where i found the drone . I offered them to the park service so they could Excavate the site but they showed no interest. How can it be they want to preserve history but could care less where this thing was found.?

Oh by the way i know where others are...some in the water some on land but these numbers they will never get from me.

 

[beeeep]

i dont think they should confiscate metal detectors. if i got caught driving my car on a "approved personel only" levee, which had NO approved personel only sign, would they confiscate my car? geeze