Chuck to be back at it? But?

[Owl Engineering]

As many of you may know I sold my Stealth product line 7 years ago and honored our none compete clause but now after 7 years it is over.
Now there is a problem, I have come up with a new design that I feel is a game changer. I innovated many ideas like the hybrid sifting, carbon fiber handle, clamping the handle etc. All of my ideas have be copied. What really burns me is when they copy and write sentence after sentence claiming how their product is not a copy. What a joke.
So, in my opinion my new design blows away everything in the past, but, I wonder if it is worth producing with so many non-creative builders who will just copy it. Maybe I will just use it for myself and move on with a smile.

Chuck

 

[hoser]

That makes me angry! Not at you, but to the copiers who can't think for themselves. About the only way I could think of how your most excellent scoops wouldn't get totally copied is to acid etch a serial number with a couple letters or symbols and you have that number with the purchasers name and addy. They go to your website and cross check. If they get the thumbs up, they know it's original. But with Chinas fingers in the mix there unfortunately will always be copiers. Only you know the quality built into your product, and if someone buys a fake and it fails, well shame on them. JMHO

 

[CalReg]

I'd be happy to test any prototype you might have

 

[BlackBeardNewEngland]

Chuck you wouldn’t have any patent info on your original scoop? That would help go after the alleged copies I’m sure that would get rid of any nonsense in the market, and help you in the long run. If someone were to later steal your ideas wouldn’t they have to pay you royalties not completely sure of the legal aspect.

 

[Cherry Picker]

It's a dog-eat-dog world now. It seems Honor and Integrety are optional.

 

[ecoast]

"imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"


see also: The Chinese

 

[TheFrood]

I really don't see how something like this could be patented... The basic design of a sieve has been around for how many hundreds of years? Unless you have proprietary rights on a certain material there's no way to really limit others from using aluminum/titanium/stainless/iron/steel/tungsten/whatever, and even then the alloying ratio or methodology would fall under trade secrets moreso than any kind of patenting. It seems to me that the biggest issue patenting a device as simple as a sand scoop is overcoming the requirements for novelty and nonobviousness, which for what is essentially a colander mounted on the end of a stick is pretty damn hard to do. Devices do not get much simpler than that, and changing materials to improve strength, weight, or the size/orientation of the holes is fairly obviously the main way to change or improve the device.

If you truly feel that your new design is a game-changer, then file a patent and vigorously go after those who violate your IP. Myself, based off of going through multiple legal battles over patents and trademarks (admittedly in a completely different industry), think getting a successful patent on this type of device would be next to impossible and ridiculously easy to challenge successfully in any kind of court battle. Far better protection would be copyright and trademark filings on unique shapes, hole configurations, and designs rather than a technology patent. Then you can go after imitators not on the grounds of violating your technology but rather because their product is capitalizing on your marketing by looking like your product and confusing the marketplace by looking too similar and could confuse buyers that were trying to buy your product.

 

[hoser]

Correct to all. What Chuck has designed and fabricated has a lot of thought put into the product to make it a top-notch item people will clammer to get. He relies on a great product reputation and knows what possible design flaws might crop up. Copiers don't spend that kind of time or effort. His seams and weldments will be sturdy and hold up to rough use. I saw the pics here recently of some scoops that are separating at a welded seam because to make it look PRETTY they ground off the weld leaving the seam weak. If he puts out another "next Gen" scoop I'm sure by his former reputation he'll have no problems with sales even if copies hit the market soon after. JMHO

 

[Rudy]

I innovated many ideas like the hybrid sifting, carbon fiber handle, clamping the handle etc. All of my ideas have be copied. What really burns me is when they copy and write sentence after sentence claiming how their product is not a copy. What a joke.
So, in my opinion my new design blows away everything in the past, but, I wonder if it is worth producing with so many non-creative builders who will just copy it. Maybe I will just use it for myself and move on with a smile.

Chuck

That is what patents are for Chuck. Whether it is cost effective to go through the expense depends on the market size.

 

[Surf Master]

If you use Surf Master in your new scoop line , I get a free one Xtreme did , I know you didn't like it , but manufacturers copy little thing's from each other all the time , just like Stavr -said someone copied his line , If you get back at it Chuck , I like the 9 inch wide , and in 316 SS, as 306 SS is in the past , Xtreme only makes an 8 wide in 316 & his titanium prices are to high , Stavr, believe it or not is still using a screw lock down- in the goose neck & 306 SS Most likely it would be worth wild getting the machinery back to start making scoop's again , your call , good luck

 

[FelixtheCat]

Chuck, I would like an additional scoop - especially if its going to be made by you. I am looking for one as a backup and to have as a travel setup. Since retirement is but a few mere months away it would get a lot of use too!

Also, I don't know if you are aware of this, but all the moderators and admins voted recently that Earl is banned from buying any additional scoops until he finds one real gold jewelry item.

 

[Steve841]

I agree with TheFrood. I do not know if your previous scoops were permanently marked. If not perhaps you can have a logo designed with the text "Owl Engineering Scoops" or "OES" within a distinctive shape and have it registered as a Trademark. At least there is something to hang your hat on legally. Versus an unmarked scoop that would look virtually the same as the copies that will pop up, at least at first glance.
See https://www.trademarkengine.com/trademarks/trademark-registration/

 

[Owl Engineering]

Chuck, I would like an additional scoop - especially if its going to be made by you. I am looking for one as a backup and to have as a travel setup. Since retirement is but a few mere months away it would get a lot of use too!

Also, I don't know if you are aware of this, but all the moderators and admins voted recently that Earl is banned from buying any additional scoops until he finds one real gold jewelry item.

Retirement and more hunting sounds good since your reputation is that you don't hunt much
Chuck

 

[Owl Engineering]

I really don't see how something like this could be patented... The basic design of a sieve has been around for how many hundreds of years? Unless you have proprietary rights on a certain material there's no way to really limit others from using aluminum/titanium/stainless/iron/steel/tungsten/whatever, and even then the alloying ratio or methodology would fall under trade secrets moreso than any kind of patenting. It seems to me that the biggest issue patenting a device as simple as a sand scoop is overcoming the requirements for novelty and nonobviousness, which for what is essentially a colander mounted on the end of a stick is pretty damn hard to do. Devices do not get much simpler than that, and changing materials to improve strength, weight, or the size/orientation of the holes is fairly obviously the main way to change or improve the device.

If you truly feel that your new design is a game-changer, then file a patent and vigorously go after those who violate your IP. Myself, based off of going through multiple legal battles over patents and trademarks (admittedly in a completely different industry), think getting a successful patent on this type of device would be next to impossible and ridiculously easy to challenge successfully in any kind of court battle. Far better protection would be copyright and trademark filings on unique shapes, hole configurations, and designs rather than a technology patent. Then you can go after imitators not on the grounds of violating your technology but rather because their product is capitalizing on your marketing by looking like your product and confusing the marketplace by looking too similar and could confuse buyers that were trying to buy your product.

I think you are spot on Frood, but, a patent costs a ton and there really is not enough profit in scoops to justify the expense.
If my innovation is as successful as I expect, the good news is that all of the inventory the "others" have will be scrap metal.

That will be my ultimate reward
Chuck

 

[Rudy]

I think you are spot on Frood, but, a patent costs a ton and there really is not enough profit in scoops to justify the expense.
If my innovation is as successful as I expect, the good news is that all of the inventory the "others" have will be scrap metal.

That will be my ultimate reward
Chuck

Chuck, as I said earlier, it all depends on the market size. To give you a personal example, while I was working in Silicon Valley, I obtained 5 patents (well, the company I worked for owned them, I was just listed as the inventor).

We found that a competitor was violating one of my patents and we took them to court. The day before the trial was to start, we settled for $13 million. I wish I'd gotten a cut of that , but all I got was a plaque.

 

[SeabeeRon]

Chuck, as I said earlier, it all depends on the market size. To give you a personal example, while I was working in Silicon Valley, I obtained 5 patents (well, the company I worked for owned them, I was just listed as the inventor).

We found that a competitor was violating one of my patents and we took them to court. The day before the trial was to start, we settled for $13 million. I wish I'd gotten a cut of that , but all I got was a plaque.

What?!? Kind of like a "participation" trophy!

 

[TheFrood]

I think you are spot on Frood, but, a patent costs a ton and there really is not enough profit in scoops to justify the expense.
If my innovation is as successful as I expect, the good news is that all of the inventory the "others" have will be scrap metal.

That will be my ultimate reward
Chuck

Yeah a basic patent including legal and filing fees is going to cost in the tens of thousands if you get it done competently. Sadly most of that is going to the lawyer and had little to do with the actual filing itself.

Trademark and copyright filing is stupid-simple and relatively straightforward (at least the last time I had to look into it about 15-20 years ago).

 

[Rudy]

What?!? Kind of like a "participation" trophy!

Actually, it was worse than that. My participation was ...exhausting and ...stressful.

I had already moved from engineering into marketing when this began, so our GM decided that since I was the inventor and therefore familiar with the technical aspects, he put me in charge of pursuing the suit, including the development of the legal strategy and supervising the lawyers. I was also deposed by the opposition ...twice! Once as the inventor and the second time as the designated "Rule 30(b)(6)" witness. Basically, as a Rule 30(b)(6) witness, I become the company's official spokesman. Anything I say during the deposition binds the company to what I said...it can not be taken back by the company...a career limiting possibility if I screw it up. The whole process took a little over a year and became my "full time" job during that time.

 

[robby4570]

As many of you may know I sold my Stealth product line 7 years ago and honored our none compete clause but now after 7 years it is over.
Now there is a problem, I have come up with a new design that I feel is a game changer. I innovated many ideas like the hybrid sifting, carbon fiber handle, clamping the handle etc. All of my ideas have be copied. What really burns me is when they copy and write sentence after sentence claiming how their product is not a copy. What a joke.
So, in my opinion my new design blows away everything in the past, but, I wonder if it is worth producing with so many non-creative builders who will just copy it. Maybe I will just use it for myself and move on with a smile.

Chuck

Welcome BACK! You and I have had several conversations over the years, you know how much I love my 720i scoop I got from you back in like 2012. I still have that same scoop and it (aside from the finish on the wood handle) still looks like the day I got it. That thing is bulletproof. If your new design is as good or better than the 720i, you'll have a winner. They say that to copy someone is the highest compliment that can be given but I say it sucks. It's pure greed and laziness on the copier's part. If you do make that new one and want a few Beta testers, send me one, I'll get as many local detectorists as I can to test it and maybe give me a short video review which I'll send to you. Then You can come here on vacation and take it home with you (no, just kidding, I'll ship it back).

​

 

[FelixtheCat]

Retirement and more hunting sounds good since your reputation is that you don't hunt much
Chuck

Since I don't hunt much, did anyone break as many of the thin Owl shafts for the Excal and Nox as me when they were being Beta-tested?