Can't believe this just happened...

[detectingpro]

Update- I am going to carefully word a email to the township asking if metal detecting is allowed. Something like

"I was casually detecting the outfield of field 3 when I was approached by a parent or coach of a ongoing practice on the other side of the park"....

Any ideas on how I should word it?

Don't try changing my mind. The idea to me on a personal level, of sneaking is asking for trouble. I do not know when this guy is there or if he lives nearby.

I would like to have direct permission from the ownership, rather than having the police called.

If police do get involved after I have permission, ill at least have some evidence in my favor.



Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[Jason in Enid]

Update- I am going to carefully word a email to the township asking if metal detecting is allowed. Something like

"I was casually detecting the outfield of field 3 when I was approached by a parent or coach of a ongoing practice on the other side of the park"....

Any ideas on how I should word it?

NO, no, no, dont ask for permission, dont tell a story, dont explain anything! Ask if there are any laws forbidding the hobby of metal detecting in the local parks. No more, no less.

 

[ohiochris]

Chris, everything you're saying "rolls off the tongue", I know. And at first glance, who can dispute being "respectful" ? Who would want to "sneak around" ? who would want to be in a position later, of wishing they'd done something differently ? Who wants "negative attention" ? Who would want places "put off limits" ?

But IMHO, the devil is in the details.



Well I'm glad you admit it's "in their minds". And yes, my heart bleeds for them and their misconceptions too. But if the day ever comes where we are to appease all folks around us, that's the day you might as well hang it up. I mean, sure, use common sense, of course. But no, an occasional fluke can not rule our lives. Example: I even had a lady say my detector bothered her dog once [I think she thought it emitted a sound or frequency that only dogs hear ? ]

And while I know this particular spot involved a sports field (as opposed to other type park turf), sure. But everything you're saying, unfortunately, could equally be said of any part of the park, or a beach, etc....

So, as you can see, from the multitude of replies here: Sometimes it IS best to just choose better times. And avoid those lone kill-joys. Rather than simply cease detecting.

You missed the point tom , when you already know the site will be a hot button for many it makes a difference. Fact is we dont "OWN" the property , we share it with others who are co-owners. The fact that there is time , money , and effort put into keeping the place up , and the fact that peoples kids play on the field they have every right to feel as they do. We are not talking general park areas...even though to an extent you could say the same of them , we are talking about sports fields , a KNOWN problem for many detectorists. It is disrespect to say "screw y'all" and do what you please. And it is irresponsible to sneak into a place you already know you are not welcome. As I said before it may be legal....for now....but that dont change anything. In many sites I do agree with you , avoid potential trouble or unnecessary attitudes by going at off times.....that makes sense , but at other sites , like sports fields....if you already know people "think" you are tearing the place up then avoid the area and hunt somewhere else , stick to the outside of the field or whatever. Atleast then you have some recourse by saying you werent "IN" the sports field.

 

[ohiochris]

NO, no, no, dont ask for permission, dont tell a story, dont explain anything! Ask if there are any laws forbidding the hobby of metal detecting in the local parks. No more, no less.

Exactly. If you insist on hunting those sports fields even though you know people dont want you doing that , dont ask for specific permission , just ask if there is any rule preventing you from doing it. As soon as you ask permission 9 times out of 10 the answer will be no , even if only because they dont want to be responsible.

 

[George (MN)]

I use a screwdriver regardless of season & pop out targets. I know this doesn't cause any damage, so if hundreds can see me, no big deal. They are usually more interested in the game than me, though their non-playing kids might get in my way. I go close to the sports fans when I empty my pocket trash in the barrel, so they know I'm doing some good. I even detect in front of community center/parks HQ bldg, if just popping out shallow coins.

If I were digging deep with a knife, I would wait for lack of crowds. One can even get a weapons charge for carrying a knife, so a very different situation.
If we want those 1800s coins, a screwdriver probably can't reach them. I keep thinking of those professional archaeologists who bulldoze the graves of Native Americans, despite knowing they get very upset. They get highly paid, but we who buy our own detectors & don't break even are the crooks?

I agree with those who say don't detect on playing fields during the season. The plugs are easily dislodged for at least a couple months afterwards. I would even say that during the offseason, don't dig plugs, just use a screwdriver and "pop" out the targets.

 

[HuntNH]

OK so I was thinking about this scene today......... I know most of you hide behind "I'm a taxpayer". Just want to give you a head up how Little league system works. In order to keep taxpayer dollars down, every parent pays a fee for their child to play. For me it happens to be 75.00. On top of that, we do a fund raiser for baseball and a fund raiser for softball. One is for 100.00 per child, the other 60.00 per child that we, the parents are responsible for paying regardless if we sell the items or not. The money used from these fund raisers go to paying umpires, ALONG WITH UP KEEP OF THE FIELD. Again..... this is done to keep taxpayer dollars down when it comes to field maintaining. So if a coach, or a parent walks up to you, upset because you are digging holes in the field, right after they have spent their time vol. to help a program, are they the ones in the wrong???!!!

Now, I guess if you're one of those type of people who like to ride on the coat tails of peoples hard work, feeling your entitled to something because there is currently not a law explaining to you that you should use some common sense, along with common courtesy. I again will ask you..... who's the DB in this situation. Are the Metal Detecting fields, or baseball fields.

I've offered the challenge several times..... If you want to find out who has a "right" to the field based on the wording of the law, refuse to leave the next time you see a car full of kids, and coach pull up. Then you can do your whole, "this is the law, this is my right" speech. Please make sure to come back and tell us how you've made out.

Then of course there's the, just go when nobody sees you approach. Like that's o.k because a person is not there to tell you that you're being a DB. I can't believe grown adults have to be told to stay out of cemeteries and athletic fields..... Pretty sad!!!!


Just to do some quick math for you, I pay 235.00 towards the LL programs to keep the field costs down for the towns people. Maybe some of you would like to buy some over prices candy bars or some raffle tickets for a cash calendar?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You missed the point tom , when you already know the site will be a hot button for many it makes a difference....

Then you are envisioning a different scenario then I am. I do NOT consider such a situation as happened here to the O.P. , to be a "hot button". And by "hot button" I presume you mean something like "Likely to happen again". Might it ? Sure *anything's* possible (a 747 might crash on my house tomorrow, etc...). But likely ? Who says ?

Chris I have had MANY such "scrams" in my nearly 40 yrs. of this, at parks like the OP describes. And yet ... later, using a little more discretion of timing (and not going back the very next day, for instance), the issue turned out to be nothing more than flukes. And to-this-day, no rules, no need to ask permission, zippo. But if I were to have thought any such "scram" meant it was therefore off-limits as a hot-button site, I'd have just lost 20 or 30 parks to hunt.

Hence a single person saying "scram" does not constitute "law" that we must all fight. Nor is it indicative that you would necessarily ever run into that person again.

... , we are talking about sports fields ...

Well, personally .... I would not disclude sports fields from places that might be good to hunt at (silver, etc...). And would not preclude this type of turf, "simply because it's a sports field". Sure, I'd be more careful there, but ... no ... that fact alone doesn't put it on equal terms with a cemetary as a no-no site.

But even if I go with what you're saying, for sake of discussion (that this is strictly because it's a sports-field we're talking about), ok, I'll grant you that. Not for the squeemish, ok. But if the principle you speak of were to be applied to other normal parks, beaches, forests, campgrounds, etc... (ie.: seek-to-satisfy-every-passerby), then no, I wouldn't go that far.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Exactly. If you insist on hunting those sports fields even though you know people dont want you doing that , dont ask for specific permission , just ask if there is any rule preventing you from doing it. As soon as you ask permission 9 times out of 10 the answer will be no , even if only because they dont want to be responsible.

+1

 

[HuntNH]

I promise this will not be a debate for much longer. People don't care about pouches with sharp objects, or your "right" to deface a sports field. Within 5 years all of you will be helped out with your moral dementia, and there will be signs to explain to the merry band of simpletons not to deface athletic fields.

 

[ohiochris]

Then you are envisioning a different scenario then I am. I do NOT consider such a situation as happened here to the O.P. , to be a "hot button". And by "hot button" I presume you mean something like "Likely to happen again". Might it ? Sure *anything's* possible (a 747 might crash on my house tomorrow, etc...). But likely ? Who says ?

Chris I have had MANY such "scrams" in my nearly 40 yrs. of this, at parks like the OP describes. And yet ... later, using a little more discretion of timing (and not going back the very next day, for instance), the issue turned out to be nothing more than flukes. And to-this-day, no rules, no need to ask permission, zippo. But if I were to have thought any such "scram" meant it was therefore off-limits as a hot-button site, I'd have just lost 20 or 30 parks to hunt.

Hence a single person saying "scram" does not constitute "law" that we must all fight. Nor is it indicative that you would necessarily ever run into that person again.


Well, personally .... I would not disclude sports fields from places that might be good to hunt at (silver, etc...). And would not preclude this type of turf, "simply because it's a sports field". Sure, I'd be more careful there, but ... no ... that fact alone doesn't put it on equal terms with a cemetary as a no-no site.

But even if I go with what you're saying, for sake of discussion (that this is strictly because it's a sports-field we're talking about), ok, I'll grant you that. Not for the squeemish, ok. But if the principle you speak of were to be applied to other normal parks, beaches, forests, campgrounds, etc... (ie.: seek-to-satisfy-every-passerby), then no, I wouldn't go that far.

Well you have to use a certain amount of discretion for any public use land. Every site is different and may call for different practices depending on the details. There is no one size fits all answer to cover every site in the country. But sports fields are usually a hot button everywhere , definately not the places to hunt if you want to be left alone. The majority of people that have anything at all to do with the sports field , if not every single one of them , do not want anybody digging in any form in the fields. They have every reason to protect those fields and be skeptical about whats going on in them. Knowing this and hunting them anyway , especially if you have to sneak in , is just a lack of respect for other people. Especially when their concern is about the safety of the kids playing there and the money or time spent to keep those fields in good safe condition. So whether you take great care , or fill your holes is not the issue. Lack of concern and respect for everybody involved , including the character of others in this hobby is the issue. But this dead horse has been beaten too many times , those that dont get it probably never will. If you did get permission that changes things , but without permission its treading on the rights or privaleges of others. Im not saying people are right to keep detectorists out of the fields , only that our desire to hunt them does not over rule and is not any more important than their desire to keep us out. If we cant respect their desire to protect the fields and the kids playing there then we should not expect to share the resource , perhaps we should be banned. And of course that is the next logical step.

 

[matmit]

What a great thread!

Let's all keep it clean and on target so it doesn't get the LOCK!

I would normally agree that as detectorists, we should stand our ground, and if there are no ordinances or signs, go for it.
In this case, however, I would not push it.

To the OP, please do not call or write a letter or email, because the town will stand behind their "benefactors" especially when they are paying $4-5000 to use the fields.

I think that being a teenager hurts you here, as you will be up against professionals in the community who have more of a voice.

Just my two cents.

 

[Zofchak]

I promise this will not be a debate for much longer. People don't care about pouches with sharp objects, or your "right" to deface a sports field. Within 5 years all of you will be helped out with your moral dementia, and there will be signs to explain to the merry band of simpletons not to deface athletic fields.

Those of us in the "Merry band of simpletons" have been swinging detectors over sports fields for years. There are a few places that I know of that are posted, but most are not. It's best to be respectful when questioned and leave if asked, if one handles the interaction well there will be few issues. Again, when done correctly there is no damage whatsoever to the turf, so defacement of the field is not an issue.

 

[garyo1954]

OK so I was thinking about this scene today......... I know most of you hide behind "I'm a taxpayer". Just want to give you a head up how Little league system works. In order to keep taxpayer dollars down, every parent pays a fee for their child to play. For me it happens to be 75.00. On top of that, we do a fund raiser for baseball and a fund raiser for softball. One is for 100.00 per child, the other 60.00 per child that we, the parents are responsible for paying regardless if we sell the items or not. The money used from these fund raisers go to paying umpires, ALONG WITH UP KEEP OF THE FIELD. Again..... this is done to keep taxpayer dollars down when it comes to field maintaining. So if a coach, or a parent walks up to you, upset because you are digging holes in the field, right after they have spent their time vol. to help a program, are they the ones in the wrong???!!!

Now, I guess if you're one of those type of people who like to ride on the coat tails of peoples hard work, feeling your entitled to something because there is currently not a law explaining to you that you should use some common sense, along with common courtesy. I again will ask you..... who's the DB in this situation. Are the Metal Detecting fields, or baseball fields.

I've offered the challenge several times..... If you want to find out who has a "right" to the field based on the wording of the law, refuse to leave the next time you see a car full of kids, and coach pull up. Then you can do your whole, "this is the law, this is my right" speech. Please make sure to come back and tell us how you've made out.

Then of course there's the, just go when nobody sees you approach. Like that's o.k because a person is not there to tell you that you're being a DB. I can't believe grown adults have to be told to stay out of cemeteries and athletic fields..... Pretty sad!!!!


Just to do some quick math for you, I pay 235.00 towards the LL programs to keep the field costs down for the towns people. Maybe some of you would like to buy some over prices candy bars or some raffle tickets for a cash calendar?

^ +1

There should be a law that requires us to use common sense and respect the rights of others. And another that says we can't complain when we claim to have a lost a ring, only to be told, it had already been found.

 

[Zofchak]

I've offered the challenge several times..... If you want to find out who has a "right" to the field based on the wording of the law, refuse to leave the next time you see a car full of kids, and coach pull up. Then you can do your whole, "this is the law, this is my right" speech. Please make sure to come back and tell us how you've made out.

Most often the organization is renting or reserving the field for that time period, not 24/7. Same as when I rented a pavilion at my local city park for a birthday party. That doesn't give me the right to go there the day before and ask those using the park not to barbeque so the grill will be clean when I get there.

 

[ohiochris]

Most often the organization is renting or reserving the field for that time period, not 24/7. Same as when I rented a pavilion at my local city park for a birthday party. That doesn't give me the right to go there the day before and ask those using the park not to barbeque so the grill will be clean when I get there.

But it should be reasonable to expect the grill to be there and in good working order and not be peed on by the last person using it.

 

[ohiochris]

Those of us in the "Merry band of simpletons" have been swinging detectors over sports fields for years. There are a few places that I know of that are posted, but most are not. It's best to be respectful when questioned and leave if asked, if one handles the interaction well there will be few issues. Again, when done correctly there is no damage whatsoever to the turf, so defacement of the field is not an issue.

When done correctly there may be no damage but how do they know you are doing it correctly ? And how do they know the next guy is doing it correctly ? Unless their job is to inspect the field after each person is done detecting it , which I am sure it isnt.

 

[George (MN)]

Would anyone care to divide ballfields into the worst to detect on & the least worst to detect on? Some they are cutting the grass, watering & grooming about all the time. Some are less maintained & may even have worn grass. Some have a big scoreboard, with home & away on it, or even the name of an organization that paid for the field.

Some are just used by young kids who live nearby. Some are used in adult tournaments. Some have fences all around & a lockable gate, as fans who pay are allowed to sit inside the fence. Some are just practice fields at schools, and they are likely owned by the school district. Some have entrance areas with no gate to lock.
Some fields have only a backstop, no fence. So, do we lump them all together, or are some more like asking for trouble than others? Aren't parks for the enjoyment of all?

The nearby park school combo has 11 ballfields. That's about 90% of the area that doesn't have a building or parking lot on it. I've detected it a few hundred times and it has been detected hundreds of times by others. These are fields for non-adult play. There are no fences besides the backstops as admission is free. No scoreboards.

Then there are the parks for adult teams, where the workers are essentially guards until the 1st players arrive, grooming the place all day. Since the adults put on uniforms just before play, they probably don't have coins, maybe not even pockets. Also, most of the money will be between the fences, where people line up to pay to get in & line up to buy refreshments. That grass is not always watered & usually has trees & maybe an asphalt strip down the middle of the outside the fence sitting area.

The grassy strips between the fences at the last place even have dirt spots & are trashy.

Also, many of the ballfields around here are hard-packed clay. I suspect this is to prevent kids falling down where slippery mud is under the grass, or on it. The water just sits on top of the ground until it evaporates. This also means coins don't get very deep (3"-4" max) so they can be removed with a screwdriver, but the palm of my hand gets pretty sore from pushing on my screwdriver. Best wishes, all! George (MN)

 

[HarveyH48]

I think it's crazy to believe that anything good could come from pressing the issue to hunt ball fields during the season. We might produce a few sharp pieces of metal, but don't remember anyone ever getting cut while playing ball. But safety concerns will carry a lot of weight. Remember, that field is after all, designated as a BALL field, not a metal detecting field. Come to think about it, I'm guess the people who planned, designed, and built the park, didn't consider metal detecting as an activity for the park. We just sort of try and squeeze that in, party crashers. No wonder nobody likes us showing up. Sports are more than a recreational activity for most cities, they also generate revenue, and brings in customers for the local businesses, good for the economy. Takes two teams to play the game, many teams make up the league. Adds up to a lot of potentially pissed off people. Most of us hunt alone, some partner up, when they can, few hunt in groups on occasion, but the numbers don't approach the sports teams, who use the field, as intended.

Don't expect the ball teams to confront you, some will take their complaints to the parks director, the one they paid a fee, for the use of the field. At which point, I'm guessing that since they don't have your contact information, they would be inclined to post some new rules. The popular advice on this forum, is to not talk to the city, so they don't know our side of the story. Will the new rules pertain only to the ball field, or the entire park, all parks? Guess it depends on how upset the people are, who call and complain about people digging up the ball fields...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I promise this will not be a debate for much longer. People don't care about pouches with sharp objects, or your "right" to deface a sports field. Within 5 years all of you will be helped out with your moral dementia, and there will be signs to explain to the merry band of simpletons not to deface athletic fields.

Do you "deface" sports field? If so, you are right. You need to stop. Be neater, learn to leave no trace, etc....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well you have to use a certain amount of discretion for any public use land. Every site is different and may call for different practices depending on the details. There is no one size fits all answer to cover every site in the country. But sports fields are usually a hot button everywhere , definately not the places to hunt if you want to be left alone. The majority of people that have anything at all to do with the sports field , if not every single one of them , do not want anybody digging in any form in the fields. They have every reason to protect those fields and be skeptical about whats going on in them. Knowing this and hunting them anyway , especially if you have to sneak in , is just a lack of respect for other people. Especially when their concern is about the safety of the kids playing there and the money or time spent to keep those fields in good safe condition. So whether you take great care , or fill your holes is not the issue. Lack of concern and respect for everybody involved , including the character of others in this hobby is the issue. But this dead horse has been beaten too many times , those that dont get it probably never will. If you did get permission that changes things , but without permission its treading on the rights or privaleges of others. Im not saying people are right to keep detectorists out of the fields , only that our desire to hunt them does not over rule and is not any more important than their desire to keep us out. If we cant respect their desire to protect the fields and the kids playing there then we should not expect to share the resource , perhaps we should be banned. And of course that is the next logical step.

Everything you're saying makes perfect sense if the following premise is true:

That md'ing, of necessity, creates physical hazards which will injure kids. If that premise is true, then everything else you're saying also logically follows. Ie.: Yes: it's "lack of respect" "sneaking", "lack of safe playing conditions" , etc... But since when is that premise actually a "given" ?