4 hours on the Hawaii beach

[ScubaDetective]

Boy, I sure wish I was over there! I would have some FUN with some security guards, and maybe some police.

I would make it interesting for them, that is for sure.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Boy, I sure wish I was over there! .....

Not even I (the king of "help yourself") could figure out a legal way out of this one. Someone building a beach . Trapping sand with jetties ? digging out their own lagoon inland from the "normal" beach?, etc.... So they don't qualify for the "public" (high to low tide) national navigable water laws. If I'm understanding the Hawaiian posters here (and what they were told by the security as the evolution).

And you think you could fight that ? To tell them it's not private since "salt water touches it" ?

Ok, I'll get the popcorn ready. A bunch of us will pitch in for an airline ticket, and fly you out there. Go at high noon and bump into the same fellow as the OP did. I'd love to see the latest installment of the scuba adventures on this !

 

[ScubaDetective]

Not even I (the king of "help yourself") could figure out a legal way out of this one. Someone building a beach . Trapping sand with jetties ? digging out their own lagoon inland from the "normal" beach?, etc.... So they don't qualify for the "public" (high to low tide) national navigable water laws. If I'm understanding the Hawaiian posters here (and what they were told by the security as the evolution).

And you think you could fight that ? To tell them it's not private since "salt water touches it" ?

Ok, I'll get the popcorn ready. A bunch of us will pitch in for an airline ticket, and fly you out there. Go at high noon and bump into the same fellow as the OP did. I'd love to see the latest installment of the scuba adventures on this !

And Tom, here is where you and I differ. Until a JUDGE fines me and tells me I am wrong I will stay. No security guard will get rid of me. It would be a cop and possibly a citation. If I got a citation for being in the water and I lost I would consider what I was told gospel. However, I would push it that far.

I have that right. A judge is the only person that can EVER make me stay out of the water if I feel I am in the right. They make a lagoon? So what? Can kayaks go in there without trespassing? Does it really belong to them? Good questions as far as I am concerned.

Most people are not as stubborn as I am and I respect that.

The MAXIMUM fine I could have gotten for diving in the Detroit river is 500.00. I find 6 grand in gold and could have lost 500.00 of it. Seems like a good investment. However, I was told by many before I got the citation that I could beat it if I did. So I decided to take that chance and they were right. I beat the citations and am allowed to dive there.

I wonder what they would do to a patron STAYING at that motel and detecting? Seems like they wouldn't have a case since you would not be trespassing. What law would prohibit you from playing in the water with your machine?

I would like a REAL cop and not a security guard tell me EXACTLY what I am in violation of and then make my decision.

 

[KENNE-BILL]

Interestingly I see that Scuba is also on the list of prohibited activities.

 

[ScubaDetective]

Interestingly I see that Scuba is also on the list of prohibited activities.

LOL they must know about me!!

 

[Aquaman]

Nothing...do it!

Ok, what's to stop me from doing the same thing

 

[Aquaman]

I would like a REAL cop and not a security guard tell me EXACTLY what I am in violation of and then make my decision.

...and one would be called and you'd go home with your tail between your legs like the rest of us.

 

[ScubaDetective]

...and one would be called and you'd go home with your tail between your legs like the rest of us.

Possible. Not saying you are wrong because I am not there. I would go home with a citation though and let a judge sort it out. Only if I was found guilty in a court of law for anything would I then admit defeat.

As I asked, if you were a guest there and you were metal detecting, what LAW are you breaking?

Nice to see you posting. You used to post a lot of great finds.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... if you were a guest there and you were metal detecting, ....

If that hotel has some legal way to call the inter-tidal zone "theirs" (d/t they man-made a lagoon or beach or whatever), then yes: Being a guest there might make matters different.

How much does a room there cost for a night ? So your wife looses her ring. And you go out and look for it. If Barney-fife comes up to boot you, you show him your room receipt, and explain your wife lost her ring. Eh ? And to make the situation even LESS likely to turn into a "scram", you do all this at night. Eh ? (So peaceful. So serene).

Heck, to make this PERFECTLY legit, you merely give a silver ring to your wife, tell her to go chuck it out in the sand somewhere the day before. Hence you wouldn't even be lying, eh ? THIS IS ALL ASSUMING the public is not dis-allowed, or that hotel guests are dis-allowed from the mere act of "being there". So your mere presence does not constitute "trespassing".

 

[Mud-puppy]

Gentlemen! Hows about going in there on the dark moon phase at @ 3am? The Dead Hours! Nobodys up then! All the beach revelers have long retreated to their cabanas, and the umbrella boys dont show up for the morning shift until 6am! This way you avoid all possible confrontations or having to even ask anybody for permission!

Hunt no lights until 5 and be gone!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Gentlemen! Hows about going in there on the dark moon phase at @ 3am? The Dead Hours! Nobodys up then! All the beach revelers have long retreated to their cabanas, and the umbrella boys dont show up for the morning shift until 6am! This way you avoid all possible confrontations or having to even ask anybody for permission!

Hunt no lights until 5 and be gone!

This assumes the readers here have not read post #17 of this thread, where the rule of "no metal detecting" was clearly posted for this "private property". I didn't read that . DID YOU ?

I am assuming that the mere act of being there (someone strolling down the beach, albeit at 3am) is not dis-allowed. Right ? Then sure, if someone simply didn't happen to know about this minutia, then ... oh well. But now that you might have read it here, .... well now you know better. Then it's just up-to-one's conscience.

But as I said: I didn't read the link on post #17. Did you ? So I guess I'd be amongst the camp that would just need to "be appraised" by Barney fife, eh ? Assuming he's out at 3am doing his rounds that is. Again, as dastardly as all this sounds: This all assumes that the public is not disallowed in the first place, which appears to be true of this beach.

 

[ScubaDetective]

thanx you guys for the further information. I never knew someone could "man-make" a beach along the ocean.

LOL Tom, even I missed that post! Ok so along the shoreline and on the beaches. WHEN are you out in the water far enough to be OUT of the shoreline and off the beach? Interesting discussion. Is the shoreline half a mile out where you can see it?

Laws can be misinterpreted and misunderstood. Seems to me that if you are out in the water you are not along the shoreline.

Interesting they can ban scuba. They can say they own everything, I wonder if their deed says they own everything?

Just because they have it in their rules, doesn't mean it is against the law and you are trespassing. However who is going to fight them? Probably nobody.

I don't know. You can argue back and forth with them, but in reality only a judge can say they have the right to the water. However, they have the money and the legal team to make your life miserable if you attempt to stand up for what you feel is right.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Seems to me that if you are out in the water you are not along the shoreline.

Scuba and the rest of the gang here: I just looked at a 1977 aerial photo of this stretch of shoreline. Those couple of lagoons did not exist at that time. Thus is appears that .... yes ... they were man-made. Not just the "beach", but also the entire indent. So does that make the bottom of the lagoon a part of the "ocean" ? Or a part of their private "beach" ? Interesting legal question.

Because if you look at modern/current google satellite view, you can see it just DRIPS with snorkler swimmer losses ! I can practically see the rings from the satellite view. Doh! Ok, then what's to stop scuba from starting his scuba dive from OUTSIDE the lagoon. Then swim underwater IN to that lagoon. Staying the entire time underwater. Then return to outside the lagoon upon finishing. At shallow swimming pool type lagoon depths like that (10 ft?) a tank of air will last for hours, eh ?

Is Barney fife down there underwater ? And even if he was, does that constitute the ocean, or the beach ?

 

[demyansk1942]

Damn, they should worry more about who is in the State then some guy fiddling around on the beach with a metal detector. Just a perfect example of the government bureaucracy. I can't stand this !!!!. I am sure they will really crack down on the metal detecting community when little nut job sends an ICBM there way. Oh yeah, Hawaii, the highest percentage of homelessness. Come and enjoy the weather and get free benefits. I will not visit.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Just a perfect example of the government bureaucracy. ....

.

No, not "government bureaucracy". This is a private resort with a man-made beach apparently not bound by the rules of "normal" beaches. Hence nothing to do with govt. Just a hotel picking and choosing what the people visiting "their" beach can and can't do. So it's "Disney bureaucracy", haha

The rest of hawaii's "govt" beaches are fair game and routinely md'd. The only exception is hanauma bay. But that has nothing to do with the concept of "metal detecting". It's a wildlife thing. Not sure if any other such "preserves" exist there. But .... suffice it to say, Hawaii is detector friendly.

 

[ScubaDetective]

As I said Tom, THEY have the power, money and attorneys to fight you! If they are really that hard nosed.

A tank can last 3 hours, doubles 6. And underwater you have NO idea where you are. So you mistakenly went on their property?

Trespassing laws are clear. You have to be told you are trespassing and then refuse to leave before you can be cited.

Kind of hard to tell a diver he is trespassing!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...Kind of hard to tell a diver he is trespassing!

And besides, you did not read the link on post #17. Right ? I didn't either

Check out the satellite views of that. Does the bottom of that lagoon (underwater) constitute their "man-made" private beach as well ? Oh well, I highly doubt anyone's under water to gripe. At best you'll see some snorkelers out doing the tourist thing looking at the fishies ?

I even heard of a guy who was toying with doing the same for hanauma bay. Simply start his scuba trip from OUTSIDE the little bay-inlet, and scuba into it. Not saying I'd condone this horrible behavior on a family friendly forum (it's akin to child murder after all). But just sayin' I know someone who was thinking of doing it. He had found coins under water there (as a snorkeler tourist) by simply fanning the sandy bottom with his hands (no detector) ! So his mind raced as to the md'ing potential. Doh!

 

[armyhunter]

I'm loving all the back and forth here. I was festering on this ever since they told me to leave, so seeing all of the points of view and points made makes me feel a little better.

I thought about snorkeling there, and keeping my gear under water. They can't see me, they can't have a problem with it lol.

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[Tom_in_CA]

.... I thought about snorkeling there, and keeping my gear under water. They can't see me, they can't have a problem with it lol. ...

Heck, snorkeling there is a common activity. Right ? I mean, there is nothing to stop someone from snorkeling there in the first place , even for day-users that aren't necessarily hotel guests, right ? Then if you're snorkeling you'd "fit right in". And with an underwater machine, presto, problem solved, eh ?

Of course with snorkeling, your depth is only going to be 4 or 5 ft. of effective range of water depth ? How about hookah snorkeling ? If that's also not unusual to see someone doing that, then you'd "fit right in" that way too, eh ?

A friend of mine was snorkeling on the open facing regular beaches there. They weren't doing much good on top side regular beach, so he wondered if underwater would be any better. So he got snorkel gear and gave it a shot. He got a few gold rings that way. But as soon as he got too deep, it became too problematic. So he's been toying with the idea of hookah to plunder those same zones, to get deeper and have more under-water time !

 

[armyhunter]

Of course with snorkeling, your depth is only going to be 4 or 5 ft. of effective range of water depth ? How about hookah snorkeling ? If that's also not unusual to see someone doing that, then you'd "fit right in" that way too, eh ?

A friend of mine was snorkeling on the open facing regular beaches there. They weren't doing much good on top side regular beach, so he wondered if underwater would be any better. So he got snorkel gear and gave it a shot. He got a few gold rings that way. But as soon as he got too deep, it became too problematic. So he's been toying with the idea of hookah to plunder those same zones, to get deeper and have more under-water time !

I've never heard of this hookah snorkel system, but I just looked it up and I would stick out like a sore thumb lol, but I do like that for other cases. That system looks awesome!

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