1st bigring update

[Raphis]

Price of gold 12 years ago was under $400 an ounce. The guy probably paid under $400 for that ring over a decade ago, so I'm not so sure he would have insured it either at the time. $1500 seems like a ridiculous price to pay, from the guy's point of view, to get it back. Unfortunately for him (fortunate for Max), the price of gold has skyrocketed.

If this ring were sterling, would it change the decision to return it or not?
And if you then contact the original owner, and find out he didn't insure the ring, and had to replace it with his own money, would that affect your decision to return it or not?

Raphis

 

[NHKeith]

Do you what you think is right, if he had it replaced, I doubt he needs two, and he will just sell it himself.

 

[Bonesquat]

If this ring were sterling, would it change the decision to return it or not?

Raphis

No. It'd be a huge pile of silver, and had he gotten a replacement under insurance I'd still keep it. That's like someone losing their car somehow - they get it replaced FREE, then someone 12 years later finds it and turns out the guy that lost it had it replaced free. Who's going to want to offer the guy who got his car back ANOTHER car for NOTHING???? That's retarded.

 

[Raphis]

... and had he gotten a replacement under insurance I'd still keep it.

Forget about insurance.....what if there was no insurance taken out for the ring? Who would insure a $400 ring? Typically, insurance is taken out for multi-thousand dollar diamond engagement rings, not class rings. What if the guy used his own money to replace the ring?

Raphis

 

[scoundrel]

I didn't get into waterhunting to find coins or karma.. I am in it for the gold

Exactly. How do I spell karma?...g-o-l-d.

 

[imalookin2]

WOW, it is cool how this thread blew up over night! Said what I think and it is not my business anyway. I cried yesterday since I looked all day for the brother of that ring and never saw him.

 

[Burbank Bob]

Exactly. How do I spell karma?...g-o-l-d.

Amen to that... keep that sucker.

 

[imalookin2]

Forget about insurance.....what if there was no insurance taken out for the ring? Who would insure a $400 ring? Typically, insurance is taken out for multi-thousand dollar diamond engagement rings, not class rings. What if the guy used his own money to replace the ring?

Raphis

I am class of 74 from High School. They offered insurance for every ring they sold. It is an add on offered by most all jewelry retailers and even back then many people bought it. They still do for lost diamonds or lost rings. Usually free stone tightening is included for life. Just another product they make money on. It could be a hundred dollar ring and they offer it.

 

[Crumble]

I just read that gold VMI class rings have a (one) free ring replacement policy, through their Alumni Association.

Here is a quote from a VMI graduate answering someone's question about a stolen OCS class ring:

"Do you guys have a free replacement policy with the manufacturer? I know if I were to ever part ways with my (VMI) ring in any way, all I have to do is call our Alumni Association and I get one free replacement. It might be worth it to call the manufacturer and see as I'm sure that they'd have a similar policy for the service academies."

 

[scoundrel]

As for legal ramifications, there are none. Too much time has passed.

As for contacting the previous owner, just because you contacted him, doesn't mean the terms are up to him. You are giving him a chance to buy his ring back if it means that much to him. And he can afford it. He can pay for it with the replacement ring, without spending a dime. He should at the very least, pay you the difference of what he payed for it way back when, and the price of what you could scrap it for today.

As for the insurance company's loss...cry me a river.

 

[cubfan64]

No. It'd be a huge pile of silver, and had he gotten a replacement under insurance I'd still keep it. That's like someone losing their car somehow - they get it replaced FREE, then someone 12 years later finds it and turns out the guy that lost it had it replaced free. Who's going to want to offer the guy who got his car back ANOTHER car for NOTHING???? That's retarded.

I think Raphis point (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) is whether the choice between returning it or not is based on the value of the item or the idea of returning it to the owner?

In other words, with everything else being equal, if it were a ring worth $50 and the guy said he had gotten a replacement but would like to have the original back would people's opinions be the same or different?

I completely understand why most folks here tend towards just keeping the ring - especially considering the owner's response to the finder contacting him.

Unfortunately at the same time more than a few people I know feel that people who detect (especially beaches looking for gold and jewelry) are just greedy scavengers. I don't classify myself as such, but when issues like this one come up and obviously strike a nerve based on the number of comments, it sometimes just confirms those people's feelings - at least in their minds.

Heck, discussions like this are one of the reasons a lot of folks don't even post photos of or tell people what they find

 

[JBEXPRESS]

KEEP IT!!! He Got another one!!!!!!! $1500 in melt! You deserve it!!!

 

[Crumble]

As I pointed out above, his VMI ring comes with one free replacement. The guy either wants to buy it back to have a backup incase he loses one again, or to sell it for melt.

I would offer it back at half melt value, win-win. The owner can keep it and he has a backup for half price, or melt it and he comes up $750 for doing nothing... but meeting up with him for a deal could be risky in itself, he could just punch you and take the ring, and what can you say to the police... it has his name on it.

I know the right thing to do for the metal detectorist is to give it back no question, but put yourself in the shoes of the person who lost it, the right thing for him to do would be to pay the guy returning it half of what you are going to melt it for... So you can do the right thing for the detectorist and get shafted, or force a fair compromise.

Or just break contact... he is trying to pull one over on you after all. He knows he got a free replacement but doesn't mention it, he knows how much gold is worth...

 

[Raphis]

Well, after reading different military academy forum discussions on the Net, it seems like many parents of the sons who went to these military academies ended up paying for the class rings. And it also seems like they had to pay a high premium on these rings (typically paying $1K-$4K, with some going up to 10K with real stone options). So the guy who lost his ring may not have even paid for it. His parents might have.

Again, does this change anyone's decision to return a ring back to the person who lost it?

I think Raphis point (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) is whether the choice between returning it or not is based on the value of the item or the idea of returning it to the owner?

Yes, that's the direction I was hinting at with these statements.

Does the fact that maybe a parent purchased the class ring for his son change the decision to return?
Does the fact that maybe he was able to replace his VMI ring for free affect the decision?
Does the fact that the person who lost the ring didn't sound very excited or offer very little in return to get it back affect the decision?
What if the ring were some less precious or non-precious metal? Would that affect the decision to return?

If you see a penny on the ground, do you pick it up?
If you see a dime on the ground, do you pick it up?
If you see a quarter on the ground, do you pick it up?
If you see a dollar bill on the ground, do you pick it up?

All food for thought....

Raphis

 

[Crumble]

Well, after reading different military academy forum discussions on the Net, it seems like many parents of the sons who went to these military academies ended up paying for the class rings. And it also seems like they had to pay a high premium on these rings (typically paying $1K-$4K, with some going up to 10K with real stone options). So the guy who lost his ring may not have even paid for it. His parents might have.

Again, does this change anyone's decision to return a ring back to the person who lost it?


Yes, that's the direction I was hinting at with these statements.

Does the fact that maybe a parent purchased the class ring for his son change the decision to return?
Does the fact that maybe he was able to replace his VMI ring for free affect the decision?
Does the fact that the person who lost the ring didn't sound very excited or offer very little in return to get it back affect the decision?
What if the ring were some less precious or non-precious metal? Would that affect the decision to return?

If you see a penny on the ground, do you pick it up?
If you see a dime on the ground, do you pick it up?
If you see a quarter on the ground, do you pick it up?
If you see a dollar bill on the ground, do you pick it up?

All food for thought....

Raphis

Most of us I'm sure are happy to return an item, if that item is missed... items that can't and/or haven't been replaced.

In this situation, the original owner sees $ signs. I think the original owner is going to melt one of them, whichever one is most scratched...

It isn't so cut and dried.

 

[Porsche914]

Don't come on here an tell us just because we would have kept it we aren't friendly!! Our members here are good folks. I returned 20+ rings over the years, But that ring is once of a lifetime find! F'er/K'er

PI...If you look at the situation as presented in the original post then there are few unknowns. A lot of people are filling in the blanks with information and speculation then using that as justification to keep the ring.
I agree that the members of this site are friendly and maybe that was poorly worded and for that I apologize.
People definitly have different ideas of right and wrong and I think their reasoning is misguided.

We don't know if it was insured. (what difference does it make?)
He replaced it already. (so it must have some sentimental value to him)
He doesn't need two rings. ( It's his ring)
He will just sell it. (It's his ring)
The guy is being a jerk because he said $200. (It's his ring and he thinks someone wants $1500 for it) Based on the post, Max did not ask for $1500, he simply stated the ring was worth that scrap.

Most states have laws regarding lost items and in particular items that can be identified as belonging to an individual.(look it up) The fact that this ring can (and has been) traced back to it's owner is enough to trump any of the arguments and reasoning presented here. Like it or not the law would side with the original owner now that he has been contacted. While Max might like a reward, the owner is not obligated to pay one. In that case, he would be a jerk.IMO
Here is a Common Law premis used to formulate some state statutes.
A finder of property acquires no rights in mislaid property, is entitled to possession of lost property against everyone except the true owner.

 

[Gold Nuggets]

I am sure that Max has read and re-read all of these replies to his post....it all boils down to what Max intends to do about it. Granted, it's gonna be a tough decision for him, but he will do what is right for him. Good luck to you Max on what-ever your decision will be. Gold Nuggets

 

[Crumble]

PI...If you look at the situation as presented in the original post then there are few unknowns. A lot of people are filling in the blanks with information and speculation then using that as justification to keep the ring.
I agree that the members of this site are friendly and maybe that was poorly worded and for that I apologize.
People definitly have different ideas of right and wrong and I think their reasoning is misguided.

We don't know if it was insured. (what difference does it make?)
He replaced it already. (so it must have some sentimental value to him)
He doesn't need two rings. ( It's his ring)
He will just sell it. (It's his ring)
The guy is being a jerk because he said $200. (It's his ring and he thinks someone wants $1500 for it) Based on the post, Max did not ask for $1500, he simply stated the ring was worth that scrap.

Most states have laws regarding lost items and in particular items that can be identified as belonging to an individual.(look it up) The fact that this ring can (and has been) traced back to it's owner is enough to trump any of the arguments and reasoning presented here. Like it or not the law would side with the original owner now that he has been contacted. While Max might like a reward, the owner is not obligated to pay one. In that case, he would be a jerk.IMO
Here is a Common Law premis used to formulate some state statutes.
A finder of property acquires no rights in mislaid property, is entitled to possession of lost property against everyone except the true owner.

Insurance replacing the ring makes a big difference. Maybe if he returns the ring, Max should also contact the VMI Alumni Association and inform them that the original ring has been returned... if we are going to follow the books, might as well go all the way.

I do agree that he is obligated to return it now, or come to an agreement of some sort... but just handing it over, hoping for a reward, and leaving it at that, well... the original owner is now making a profit, illlegally, off of Max's good fortune.

 

[Cfmct]

We are sitting here posting away and Max is probably eating it up

 

[Porsche914]

again speculation!
He bought the original ring. Cried when he lost it. Bought the second ring.
again speculation.