High School field parking lot & baseball coach

HarveyH48 · Apr 16, 2014

Tom_in_CA said:
Sure they can Harvey ! That was the point of the rhetorical question! And you bought into it hook-line-&-sinker Therefore, what does that tell you ? Why is THAT "law" different from the texting law, which .... I think you'd agree, you would NEVER get someone to wink and say "go ahead and text while driving". And again, this too is rhetorical, I already know the answer, and it brings us full circle again back to my premise

Texting while driving has nothing to do with metal detecting. You aren't very likely to cause a death or serious injury with a metal detector. Using any attention distracting device while driving, can result in serious accident and death. Absurd comparison, to minimize admission of guilt... There are hundreds of rules on most any cities books, for which you can be fined, but they issue permission daily, usually for a fee, somethings just have to ask, and they give you some literature about what they expect from the homeowner (fence issue I corrected 22 years ago, permit didn't cost a thing).

williamb · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown603 said:
Save your fingertips Harvey. I decided today who gives a damn??!!! They are who and what they are. The fact they will not only intentionally break laws, deface someone elses hard work, they also enjoy name calling people who help out their community, and getting into these internet cat fights. One thing I'm sure that's never going to happen.....is hearing "you know what... I have been carrying myself as a jerk" Instead they will just keep the flashlights and spade shovels handy, circling for the next area where a kid might have dropped a quarter while chasing down the good humor man..... One can only hope right fellas??????

If that kid is dumb enough to drop a quarter and I happen to find it well lets say im a quarter richer. There is no shame in the metal detecting game you are there to find coins jewels and soda tabs. Well as long as we fill in our holes why not. A dog doesn't fill in his holes and I seen dogs dig a hole in the park the other day big and deep enough to put a ford focus inwell not that deep cause it was a small dog. I don't see anybody banning them .And this dam dog was rite there at the pitchers mound of the softball field talk about us geees.

CoiltoSoil · Apr 16, 2014

Isn't the purpose of detecting to find areas where people may have lost items? Whether it be in parks, school yards, or curb strips? Does that make someone a vulture? If we didn't detect spots were people may have lost items we wouldn't find very much, would we?

williamb · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown603 said:
You've never seen a park that doesn't allow dogs????? Nice try. I really don't care, but if you're comparing peoples or yourself commons sense and decission making with that of a dog........well there's really nothing I can say or do that will help you. Good luck....

Just so you understand...... I have no issue with someone hunting "tot lots" or parks in general. What I do have a problem with is people digging on sports fields that are manacured for sports, not to be dug up. I will address you cleat comment also. I see you don't play sports, but it's a fair question. Our coaches or any other teams coaches do not allow a kid to sit there and scuff their foot back and forth digging a trench in the outfield or infield. First of it's very dangerous, because it means the child isn't paying attention to the game and could get hurt, the other is because it's disrespectful to those who maintain the field. Strange how and 6 year old gets it isn't it???? Our boys are 9 and 10, we don't even have to speak to them about it, they've understood since they were in tee ball..... Dig where you got to, I really don't care. It's your credibility and character, if you're willing to sell it out for lost pocket change, who am I to judge. Someone else watching you will do that....

well uptown I don't dig in so called softball fields anyway so that is irrealavent . But I see what cleats do to the grass it rips it out ive walked across the ball field the other day and you can tell where every out fielder was at the time and which way they went cause of the ripped out grass. I don't and don't want to hunt base or softball fields I do hunt around the stands and the food building and the equipment lock up and always make my dinners worth out at all three fields. So don't think I am hurting your beloved sport .I got in this hobby to be a relic hunter but rite now the relic hunting spots are under water from the spring flood other wise I would be out hunting them but I am just learning coin shooting and wanna learn every aspect of the hobby so I just learn as I go if the parks dept don't want me to hunt in the park I wont but I haven't been told anything by the coaches or the parks dept or even the police but I digress.

mountain digger · Apr 16, 2014

Quotes from UPTOWN:

"I think my time is worth a heck of a lot more than a couple bucks in clad you or someone else might dig on a baseball field" and "Save your fingertips Harvey".

Uptown, could you please spend more time volunteering at YOUR ballfield and less time on your keyboard? :peckkey:

Tom_in_CA · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown603 said:
Yes it is, and it's never been my point to NOT detect those areas. My point was orginally to have someone understand that when you look at a sports field, it's just another field to you or them. To some it's an area where you vol. countless hours of time to manacure and make them look that way. That when you dig a plug, and someone gets upset about it, here's why!!! I think my time is worth a heck of a lot more than a couple bucks in clad you or someone else might dig on a baseball field. Now if you or anyone else can't understand that, step back for even a second and think about the other side, then yes, that's when those practicing the hobby start acting like a group of circling buzzards. When you'd sell out your character and integrity for a few bucks "to enjoy YOUR hobby" while crapping on someone elses, why would I think the slightest bit different?

Uptown, do you realize that some people have this image of us ("circling buzzards") even in other areas too? Ie.: not just nicely manicured turf, but also sandboxes, beaches, etc....

Steve77 · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown603 said:
what.....no congrats on my latest place of private hunting, where I asked and was granted access?

Do you really have room for another feather in your cap?

CoiltoSoil · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown603 said:
Yes it is, and it's never been my point to NOT detect those areas. My point was orginally to have someone understand that when you look at a sports field, it's just another field to you or them. To some it's an area where you vol. countless hours of time to manacure and make them look that way. That when you dig a plug, and someone gets upset about it, here's why!!! I think my time is worth a heck of a lot more than a couple bucks in clad you or someone else might dig on a baseball field. Now if you or anyone else can't understand that, step back for even a second and think about the other side, then yes, that's when those practicing the hobby start acting like a group of circling buzzards. When you'd sell out your character and integrity for a few bucks "to enjoy YOUR hobby" while crapping on someone elses, why would I think the slightest bit different?

You have the right to expect that on private property but not public land unless otherwise stated. It's more a moral vs. legal issue in most cases, since it's highly unlikely that any vague laws about removing or defacing property would hold up in court against a detectorist. Most of those regulations are intended for removing or defacing buildings and fixtures. With public land you have to assume it's going to see a lot of wear and tear from the general public who really don't care how much time or effort you put into the project or what it's intended purposes were. I know, I watched a war memorial I restored for my Eagle Scout project slowly be destroyed once again by the public. That being said I mainly detect woods, simply because I don't like being bothered when I detect and I enjoy the peace and quiet. Would I detect on a sport field? No, but I'd probably detect outside of the baseline or in other areas of the park where spectators would sit.

Steve77 · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown603 said:
It was sarcassim...... I just thought it was odd that so many will reply to me being upset about vandilizing a sports field, yet no comments on the areas??? Hmmmmm......who's the troll??

I am subscribed to every thread I post to, so I get a notification every time someone chimes in. Being a forum, I chime in as well when the topic is important to me. You obviously have a emotional attachment to sports fields. I and many others don't. You will no more succeed in "converting" the masses to your preference than convincing us to give up detecting entirely. If it's legal you are powerless to stop anyone. Morality and character are subjective.

Steve77 · Apr 16, 2014

CoiltoSoil said:
You have the right to expect that on private property but not public land unless otherwise stated. It's more a moral vs. legal issue in most cases, since it's highly unlikely that any vague laws about removing or defacing property would hold up in court against a detectorist. Most of those regulations are intended for removing or defacing buildings and fixtures. With public land you have to assume it's going to see a lot of wear and tear from the general public who really don't care how much time or effort you put into the project or what it's intended purposes were. I know, I watched a war memorial I restored for my Eagle Scout project slowly be destroyed once again by the public. That being said I mainly detect woods, simply because I don't like being bothered when I detect and I enjoy the peace and quiet. Would I detect on a sport field? No, but I'd probably detect outside of the baseline or in other areas of the park where spectators would sit.

I appreciate this response. It highlights the argument in this topic brilliantly. We all have certain things that put a burr under our saddle. For the most part it is personal where we choose to detect or not to detect. Many folks who are charitable, moral, and have above average character detect.

mountain digger · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown,
Yes, it's just my opinion but you've certainly stepped your game up a notch - from sad to pathetic.

Ice Scratcher · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown603 said:
I run into nobody when I hunt.....

LOL, you better keep it like that, with the way you have been ruffling feathers around here...

:laughing:

You're still here???

:facepalm:

<*)))>{

Steve77 · Apr 16, 2014

Uptown603 said:
Sure I can't stop you, I get that. Morality and character might be subjective to you, not to the outside that doesn't detect. That's where you and I differ. You will eventually lose playing your way, yet I will always have a place to go as long as I continue to exercise morals and character.......matter a fact, I'm gaining.

You fail to realize that we open ourselves up to more bans by not standing together for our hobby. I have permission to detect many wonderful, historic and private locations. I actually have explicit permission to detect on certain public property. I also believe we do not need to have permission to hunt public property. In hindsight, I doubt I would have asked for permission.

I personally believe that detecting bans stem from multiple problems. I'll name a few:
A sue happy society. This causes endless amounts of rules just to cover someones butt!

Abuse of power. Someone with authority decides that their vision of "public use" is the only one that matters. This means that sometimes, even walking in certain wilderness areas is illegal.

Reaction to complaints.

Reaction to trespassing.

As a means to end people from asking permission. Some people don't care to take the time to answer questions or research the answer.

Preference for archaeology over metal detecting.

Lack of understanding about how metal detecting can be enjoyed responsibly, with minimal negative environmental impact.

Poor experience with metal detectorist. Yes this is a possible contributing factor, but certainly not solely responsible.

I'm sure many people can add to this list.
It wouldn't be intelligent to assume that every instance of a ban was caused by a single factor.

CoiltoSoil · Apr 16, 2014

Steve77 said:
You fail to realize that we open ourselves up to more bans by not standing together for our hobby. I have permission to detect many wonderful, historic and private locations. I actually have explicit permission to detect on certain public property. I also believe we do not need to have permission to hunt public property. In hindsight, I doubt I would have asked for permission.

I personally believe that detecting bans stem from multiple problems. I'll name a few:
A sue happy society. This causes endless amounts of rules just to cover someones butt!

Abuse of power. Someone with authority decides that their vision of "public use" is the only one that matters. This means that sometimes, even walking in certain wilderness areas is illegal.

Reaction to complaints.

Reaction to trespassing.

As a means to end people from asking permission. Some people don't care to take the time to answer questions or research the answer.

Preference for archaeology over metal detecting.

Lack of understanding about how metal detecting can be enjoyed responsibly, with minimal negative environmental impact.

Poor experience with metal detectorist. Yes this is a possible contributing factor, but certainly not solely responsible.

I'm sure many people can add to this list.
It wouldn't be intelligent to assume that every instance of a ban was caused by a single factor.

I agree that the "poor experience with a detectorist" excuse is hardly ever a real basis for bans. I also doubt any of these people (such as the coach) would have been any less angry if you showed him a permit which granted the detectorist permission. If anything he would have just gone to whomever issued the permit and complained to them until detecting was banned. The biggest threat to our hobby (in my opinion) are archeologist who use their designation as a means to have total access to all artifacts, many times for their private universities. These finds do benefit them monetarily, it gives them status, promotions, etc. They do it for personal gain, yet claim we are the pirates. In most of these cases 100 detectorist could follow the rules 100% of the time, remove all trash, properly plug all holes, and yet one person complaining will destroy it for all.

HarveyH48 · Apr 17, 2014

CoiltoSoil said:
I agree that the "poor experience with a detectorist" excuse is hardly ever a real basis for bans. I also doubt any of these people (such as the coach) would have been any less angry if you showed him a permit which granted the detectorist permission. If anything he would have just gone to whomever issued the permit and complained to them until detecting was banned. The biggest threat to our hobby (in my opinion) are archeologist who use their designation as a means to have total access to all artifacts, many times for their private universities. These finds do benefit them monetarily, it gives them status, promotions, etc. They do it for personal gain, yet claim we are the pirates. In most of these cases 100 detectorist could follow the rules 100% of the time, remove all trash, properly plug all holes, and yet one person complaining will destroy it for all.

I've never lived in an area of historical interest, or met an archaeologist, but have trouble accepting that all are corrupt. There are those who are only interested in fame and fortune, regardless of what field they work in, but don't represent the majority.

I think activities get banned, because some who participate, refuse to be responsible and considerate, just in it for themselves. The OP to this thread, saw the team on the field, before he even parked his car. Choosing to stop and hunt, was likely to annoy someone, and it did. But who cares? He had fun, right? Made that coach sweat a little, worry a little about the condition of that play field next practice, maybe forced him to start inspecting the whole field for holes, before starting practice, to keep his kids safe... Wonder if he would still hunt ball fields, when he grows up, has kids, who want to play sports...

chipper01work · Apr 17, 2014

Steve77 said:
So if I'm passing through "Your Town" and want to stop at a park that you pay taxes on and I don't pay taxes on, I should ask for permission? Your argument does not hold up. You may not realize it but this topic is a black and white issue of legal vs illegal. You have clouded the issue with your subjective opinion. If someone breaks a law they are subject to penalties. If they broke no law let them exercise their freedom Guaranteed buy the Constitution. If you don't like the law change the law instead of bullying law abiding people.

And that my friends is the whole argument in a nutshell. There are no "squatters rights" to public property. If there is an applicable law it is illegal, if not it is legal. Who volunteers the most or donates the most has no effect on someone else's rights as an American. Your good deeds as a coach cannot strip the rights of others, only legislation can do that. Sorry, but those are the REAL FACTS. The idea that "volunteerism" gives someone the authority to decide on the rights of others is really illogical thinking. Donating time to worthy causes is certainly both admirable and valuable to society and granted it may give added influence with the local powers that be but that is all. It gives no special rights when it comes to the law. What if I told you that 7 of my ancestors gave their lives beginning with the Revolutionary War to secure our way of life, does that give me the authority to tell a freshly naturalized immigrant that he is not "American" enough to have the same rights as others because he personally has not done enough to "earn" them? Of course it does not, the same as it does not give me the right to kick the coach off the sidewalk in front of my house. See how flawed the thinking is that spending your time volunteering or your deeds gives you special rights is? I respect playing fields as being for their intended uses primarily. I will, on occasion hunt a public park while always being respectful of others. Life would be so much nicer if we all just tried to get along and give others the space and freedom the human spirit longs for, but I gotta tell you that if I'm ever detecting the edge of a gravel parking lot on public property where metal detecting in not specifically forbidden and a coach shows up with a baseball bat he may well have Louisville Slugger brand wood for lunch. People with "morals" and "character" don't hassle and try to control other productive, contributing members of society while they are trying to relax and unwind in a manner that is not hurting anything.

chipper01work · Apr 17, 2014

Uptown603 said:
You've never seen a park that doesn't allow dogs????? Nice try. I really don't care, but if you're comparing peoples or yourself commons sense and decission making with that of a dog........well there's really nothing I can say or do that will help you. Good luck....

Just so you understand...... I have no issue with someone hunting "tot lots" or parks in general. What I do have a problem with is people digging on sports fields that are manacured for sports, not to be dug up. I will address you cleat comment also. I see you don't play sports, but it's a fair question. Our coaches or any other teams coaches do not allow a kid to sit there and scuff their foot back and forth digging a trench in the outfield or infield. First of it's very dangerous, because it means the child isn't paying attention to the game and could get hurt, the other is because it's disrespectful to those who maintain the field. Strange how and 6 year old gets it isn't it???? Our boys are 9 and 10, we don't even have to speak to them about it, they've understood since they were in tee ball..... Dig where you got to, I really don't care. It's your credibility and character, if you're willing to sell it out for lost pocket change, who am I to judge. Someone else watching you will do that....

I thought this thread was about a guy detecting on the edge of the parking lot at a practice field? I personally have never detected a baseball field but may consider doing it sometime in late fall with winter being right around the corner. I have this approach out of respect for the field and it's intended use and the children who enjoy it. The line of thinking that leads to an opinion that if you don't live in the city or town that fact requires you to refrain from using that park for whatever lawful purpose-be it walking, eating lunch on a picnic table or anything else that is done in parks is frankly disgusting and disturbing thinking to me. I'm embarrassed that I have fellow citizens that think those who live in the next county or even just the next town are beneath them and beneath having access to "their" "public property". A public park is just that a public park. A town who would post a "For town residents only" sign is surely one that longs for the days of "Whites Only" signs and probably have people in charge with IQ's that could be rivaled by the primate population of a good zoo.

LordOfTheZincs · Apr 17, 2014

Uptown603 said:
or how about the guy that's headed out on Easter Sunday to "see" how long he can stay there detecting a beach, although the rules seemed very clear to me, they are not "clear enough" and worth the gamble. QUOTE]

Great.......I received honorable mention by a d bag. "You still here?"

CoiltoSoil · Apr 17, 2014

chipper01work said:
I thought this thread was about a guy detecting on the edge of the parking lot at a practice field? I personally have never detected a baseball field but may consider doing it sometime in late fall with winter being right around the corner. I have this approach out of respect for the field and it's intended use and the children who enjoy it. The line of thinking that leads to an opinion that if you don't live in the city or town that fact requires you to refrain from using that park for whatever lawful purpose-be it walking, eating lunch on a picnic table or anything else that is done in parks is frankly disgusting and disturbing thinking to me. I'm embarrassed that I have fellow citizens that think those who live in the next county or even just the next town are beneath them and having access to their "public property". A public park is just that a public park. A town who would post a "For town residents only" sign is surely one that longs for the days of "Whites Only" signs and probably have people in charge with IQ's that could be rivaled by the primate population of a good zoo.

Any public park that post a "Local Residents Only Sign" is not in the right, and can be used, if they do say anything, you can have their regulation overturned in court. The truth is, any citizen, can use any public park, in any town. It's that simple.

mountain digger · Apr 17, 2014

For those that don't understand If it's legal...it's not illegal. If it's illegal...it's not legal.:

"Common sense is not so common"....Voltaire
"There is nothing more uncommon than common sense...Frank Lloyd Wright
"Common sense will never be understood by those who have no common sense." ... mountain digger

High School field parking lot & baseball coach

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