This guy went hunting for treasure...he did it all wrong!

DIGGER27

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...stone-during-hunt-forrest-fenn-prize-n1244409

I guess this guy isn't a member of the forum, evidently he didn't understand the rules we treasure hunters live by.
He was looking for Fenns treasure, he messed up...a lot.

He was searching in the wrong area.
He was searching, and digging, in a national park doing damage.
He was digging up a cemetery.
After several months he was caught doing all of these things.

At least he didn't die like a few others did searching for this thing but how stupid can you be to think the treasure would be hidden in such a sensitive area.
Something tells me his life will still be affected...badly.

Under his indictments he could go to jail for up to 10-12 years, possible fines of over $250,000.
Indicted in september and yesterday he pleaded not guilty, his trial is in december.

I bet they took away his shovel, too.
 

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Because there wasn't a sign that said "No MD'ing". Small fine , slap on the wrist is all what will happen.
 
Nobody says he was MD'ing...could have been but the charge was he was digging holes and damaging property.
They might make an example of him...no slap on the wrist.
You know how badly people react to disturbing gravesites.
The key here is they claim damage of over $1000 to the park.

Metal detecting is allowed on some public lands, within reason, here are some rules in this U.S. Forest Service Guide in a PDF.
It even addresses treasure troves hidden to be found later although most ask you get a permit to do that.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5261774.pdf

The BLM I am sure has their own rules posted somewhere online.
Yellowstone is about 3,500 square miles big, just because these entities don't spend who knows how many dollars making and planting a million signs warning people about what you can't do doesn't mean you can do what you want just anywhere, Carte Blanche.

This has all been discussed to death before, Fenn said no matter where the hiding place was there could be some "issues", lots of rules and different regulations no matter where he could have possibly hidden it.
For instance would you have to declare it or not, even if it is not part of the natural landscape on public land, and more.

Below is the opinion of a park ranger in Yellowstone.
Maybe he has it exactly correct, maybe he doesn't, but I sure wouldn't want to be the subject of a test case.
Also an archie chimes in with a common archie opinion.

Notice the last line...Fenn specifically stated it was NOT in a graveyard.
That might have been a helpful piece of info to this guy.



According to Fenn, the treasure could be hidden in one of three places: “public land, tribal land or private property.

“Treasure hunting is not illegal in Yellowstone, but there’s a whole host of regulations that govern the preservation and use of national parks,” says Tim Reid, chief ranger at Yellowstone. “Metal detectors are illegal, digging is illegal, and you can’t remove any natural or cultural feature from the park.” If somebody were to find the Fenn treasure within the boundaries of Yellowstone, or any national park, it would be considered abandoned property, Reid says. “It’s not ‘finders, keepers.’ You would have to turn it in and go through a governmental procedure to lay claim to it.”

The treasure could be on public lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management, the National Park Service or the Forest Service, which raises questions about its ownership if found. Credit: Mary Caperton Morton.

Some of the Fenn treasure hunters have run afoul of the rules in Yellowstone, and a handful have even gotten themselves banned from the park, Reid says. “People who choose to believe the treasure exists typically seem to be unprepared for wilderness conditions. We’ve had several search and rescues, and a host of violations; people have been cited and some have been arrested,” Reid says. “Some are lucky not to have been seriously injured or killed.”

Land-use regulations may seem to narrow the search field, but as Neitzel points out, Fenn hid the treasure without anybody seeing him do it, so somebody should be able to get the chest without getting caught by authorities. “The poem says ‘take the chest and go in peace,’ which may imply that a searcher shouldn’t make a fuss about where it was found,” Mason says.

“Forrest has said that there was nowhere he could have hid the treasure that would not involve some potential complications,” Mason says. “Maybe the answer is to take it clear of its hiding place and keep quiet about it.”

The Forest Service does not agree with that strategy, however. “If somebody were to find the chest and not report it, that’s theft of government property,” says Mike Bremer, a forest service archaeologist with the Santa Fe National Forest. “Frankly, I think this whole treasure hunt is a nuisance and a potential danger to the vast reserves of cultural artifacts and archaeology in Santa Fe National Forest.”

A Quest for the Ages
In the past four years, Fenn has issued a few additional hints about the location of his treasure, but he’s not giving it away: The chest is above 1,500 meters of elevation; it’s not associated with any manmade structure; and it’s not buried in a graveyard.
 
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Nobody says he was MD'ing...could have been but the charge was he was digging holes and damaging property.
Below is the opinion of a park ranger in Yellowstone.
Maybe he has it exactly correct, maybe he doesn't, but I sure wouldn't want to be the subject of a test case.
Also an archy chimes in with a common archy opinion.

According to Fenn, the treasure could be hidden in one of three places: “public land, tribal land or private property.

“Treasure hunting is not illegal in Yellowstone, but there’s a whole host of regulations that govern the preservation and use of national parks,” says Tim Reid, chief ranger at Yellowstone. “Metal detectors are illegal, digging is illegal, and you can’t remove any natural or cultural feature from the park.” If somebody were to find the Fenn treasure within the boundaries of Yellowstone, or any national park, it would be considered abandoned property, Reid says. “It’s not ‘finders, keepers.’ You would have to turn it in and go through a governmental procedure to lay claim to it.”

The treasure could be on public lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management, the National Park Service or the Forest Service, which raises questions about its ownership if found. Credit: Mary Caperton Morton.

Some of the Fenn treasure hunters have run afoul of the rules in Yellowstone, and a handful have even gotten themselves banned from the park, Reid says. “People who choose to believe the treasure exists typically seem to be unprepared for wilderness conditions. We’ve had several search and rescues, and a host of violations; people have been cited and some have been arrested,” Reid says. “Some are lucky not to have been seriously injured or killed.”

Land-use regulations may seem to narrow the search field, but as Neitzel points out, Fenn hid the treasure without anybody seeing him do it, so somebody should be able to get the chest without getting caught by authorities. “The poem says ‘take the chest and go in peace,’ which may imply that a searcher shouldn’t make a fuss about where it was found,” Mason says.

“Forrest has said that there was nowhere he could have hid the treasure that would not involve some potential complications,” Mason says. “Maybe the answer is to take it clear of its hiding place and keep quiet about it.”

The Forest Service does not agree with that strategy, however. “If somebody were to find the chest and not report it, that’s theft of government property,” says Mike Bremer, a forest service archaeologist with the Santa Fe National Forest. “Frankly, I think this whole treasure hunt is a nuisance and a potential danger to the vast reserves of cultural artifacts and archaeology in Santa Fe National Forest.”
[/B]

If you are referring to Mike Bremer being an Archie the entire article kind of proves his point. For every responsable person that doesn't ruin property, endanger natural rescourses or cultural sites there are tenfold that are only interested in themselves. Even Fenn has had to put more information out due to the fact of those idiots doing damage.
 
If you are referring to Mike Bremer being an Archie the entire article kind of proves his point. For every responsable person that doesn't ruin property, endanger natural rescourses or cultural sites there are tenfold that are only interested in themselves. Even Fenn has had to put more information out due to the fact of those idiots doing damage.

I agree.
How many times has one selfish, stupid person ruins it for so many others whether it be parks being declared off limits that never were before or other sites and situations like this one?
A black eye for treasure hunters and MD'ers alike when it happens but as they say...
"You can't fix stupid!".
 
Because there wasn't a sign that said "No MD'ing". Small fine , slap on the wrist is all what will happen.


Yep. If there wasnt a sign that said "No Hunting Forrest Fenn's Treasure" at the location, he is Good To Go. At least that is the logic i have seen professed on this forum before. Heck, maybe he is a member here and was just following that logic.





{/s} ;)
 
Yep. If there wasnt a sign that said "No Hunting Forrest Fenn's Treasure" at the location, he is Good To Go. At least that is the logic i have seen professed on this forum before....

There doesn't need to be a "sign" that forbids an activity (like md'ing or whatever). Just like there doesn't need to be a sign that forbids nudity, etc.... But the rule or law is codified in print , that can be looked up. And no doubt this dude digging holes in sensitive sites (a cemetery for pete's sake) broke some rule. A rule which he could have looked up.

This link/article has nothing to do with md'ing, or legality-issues surrounding our hobby.
 
There doesn't need to be a "sign" that forbids an activity (like md'ing or whatever). Just like there doesn't need to be a sign that forbids nudity, etc.... But the rule or law is codified in print , that can be looked up. And no doubt this dude digging holes in sensitive sites (a cemetery for pete's sake) broke some rule. A rule which he could have looked up.

This link/article has nothing to do with md'ing, or legality-issues surrounding our hobby.

Easy Tom, i was joking. Note the /s and wink emoji in my post.
 
They did, this guy was caught and charged last year before it was found this past June in New Mexico.
He wasn't even close so all this drama for nothing.

Oh, Ok. Funny. You'd think he'd know better. Thanks Digger
 
Nobody says he was MD'ing...could have been but the charge was he was digging holes and damaging property.
They might make an example of him...no slap on the wrist.
You know how badly people react to disturbing gravesites.
The key here is they claim damage of over $1000 to the park.

Metal detecting is allowed on some public lands, within reason, here are some rules in this U.S. Forest Service Guide in a PDF.
It even addresses treasure troves hidden to be found later although most ask you get a permit to do that.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5261774.pdf

The BLM I am sure has their own rules posted somewhere online.
Yellowstone is about 3,500 square miles big, just because these entities don't spend who knows how many dollars making and planting a million signs warning people about what you can't do doesn't mean you can do what you want just anywhere, Carte Blanche.

This has all been discussed to death before, Fenn said no matter where the hiding place was there could be some "issues", lots of rules and different regulations no matter where he could have possibly hidden it.
For instance would you have to declare it or not, even if it is not part of the natural landscape on public land, and more.

Below is the opinion of a park ranger in Yellowstone.
Maybe he has it exactly correct, maybe he doesn't, but I sure wouldn't want to be the subject of a test case.
Also an archie chimes in with a common archie opinion.

Notice the last line...Fenn specifically stated it was NOT in a graveyard.
That might have been a helpful piece of info to this guy.



According to Fenn, the treasure could be hidden in one of three places: “public land, tribal land or private property.

“Treasure hunting is not illegal in Yellowstone, but there’s a whole host of regulations that govern the preservation and use of national parks,” says Tim Reid, chief ranger at Yellowstone. “Metal detectors are illegal, digging is illegal, and you can’t remove any natural or cultural feature from the park.” If somebody were to find the Fenn treasure within the boundaries of Yellowstone, or any national park, it would be considered abandoned property, Reid says. “It’s not ‘finders, keepers.’ You would have to turn it in and go through a governmental procedure to lay claim to it.”

The treasure could be on public lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management, the National Park Service or the Forest Service, which raises questions about its ownership if found. Credit: Mary Caperton Morton.

Some of the Fenn treasure hunters have run afoul of the rules in Yellowstone, and a handful have even gotten themselves banned from the park, Reid says. “People who choose to believe the treasure exists typically seem to be unprepared for wilderness conditions. We’ve had several search and rescues, and a host of violations; people have been cited and some have been arrested,” Reid says. “Some are lucky not to have been seriously injured or killed.”

Land-use regulations may seem to narrow the search field, but as Neitzel points out, Fenn hid the treasure without anybody seeing him do it, so somebody should be able to get the chest without getting caught by authorities. “The poem says ‘take the chest and go in peace,’ which may imply that a searcher shouldn’t make a fuss about where it was found,” Mason says.

“Forrest has said that there was nowhere he could have hid the treasure that would not involve some potential complications,” Mason says. “Maybe the answer is to take it clear of its hiding place and keep quiet about it.”

The Forest Service does not agree with that strategy, however. “If somebody were to find the chest and not report it, that’s theft of government property,” says Mike Bremer, a forest service archaeologist with the Santa Fe National Forest. “Frankly, I think this whole treasure hunt is a nuisance and a potential danger to the vast reserves of cultural artifacts and archaeology in Santa Fe National Forest.”

A Quest for the Ages
In the past four years, Fenn has issued a few additional hints about the location of his treasure, but he’s not giving it away: The chest is above 1,500 meters of elevation; it’s not associated with any manmade structure; and it’s not buried in a graveyard.

As I recall, you can't even have a Metal Detector in your car, when traveling through Yellowstone. They're pretty serious about it. How they would know? I don't know, but when I went, last time, I didn't take it. All national parks are off limits. It boggles my mind when people don't bother to check.

Don't mess with National Parks!

Guy had it coming on several counts...

Skippy
 
As I recall, you can't even have a Metal Detector in your car, when traveling through Yellowstone. They're pretty serious about it. How they would know? I don't know, but when I went, last time, I didn't take it. All national parks are off limits. It boggles my mind when people don't bother to check.

Don't mess with National Parks!

Guy had it coming on several counts...

Skippy

As I mentioned they might just make an example of him, he made it all so much worse when he went digging in an old graveyard.
Some judges hold respect in high regard, an astonishing lack of it can hurt you in court.
It could happen he might not get sentenced to all the years possible or get a maxed out fine but no matter what I doubt he will be happy with the outcome in the slightest.
I don't think his not guilty plea will carry much weight but we will see what happens at his trial in December.
I bet he pleas out just before the trial if they have enough real evidence against him.
 
... they might just make an example of him,....

Yes, there will always be flukes in life. Persons who were "made an example". Like someone can get roughed up and ticketed and confiscated for nothing but a tail-light out. But in this case, the fellow apparently is just clue-less, and doesn't hang out on forums like this. For example,

1) We all know that .... while we debate OTHER types parks/entities, yet no one disputes that NPS is known to be the place you don't detect. A few minutes on any of the larger md'ing forums, with some key word searches, would have alerted him to that.

2) A few minutes on any md'ing forum, with the key-word "cemetery" would have alerted him to the distastefulness (the poor image) that most md'rs feel about that.

Thus if it's true that the fellow gets the book thrown at him, I would write it off as a fluke, that anyone with an ounce of common sense can avoid. NOT a link that should cause all of us md'rs to go grovelling wherever we come to now.
 
Yes, there will always be flukes in life. Persons who were "made an example". Like someone can get roughed up and ticketed and confiscated for nothing but a tail-light out. But in this case, the fellow apparently is just clue-less, and doesn't hang out on forums like this. For example,

1) We all know that .... while we debate OTHER types parks/entities, yet no one disputes that NPS is known to be the place you don't detect. A few minutes on any of the larger md'ing forums, with some key word searches, would have alerted him to that.

2) A few minutes on any md'ing forum, with the key-word "cemetery" would have alerted him to the distastefulness (the poor image) that most md'rs feel about that.

Thus if it's true that the fellow gets the book thrown at him, I would write it off as a fluke, that anyone with an ounce of common sense can avoid. NOT a link that should cause all of us md'rs to go grovelling wherever we come to now.

Yes, an example of an extra clueless individual, wish this type was as rare as we wish it could be.
Common sense is just not all that common...anymore.
 
Regarding cemeteries, i sometimes see small cemeteries out in the country that were at one time adjacent to a long gone church building.
What's the protocol for detecting the area where the church once stood?

Is that taboo?
 
Regarding cemeteries, i sometimes see small cemeteries out in the country that were at one time adjacent to a long gone church building.
What's the protocol for detecting the area where the church once stood?

Is that taboo?

Just don't hunt cemeteries or hunt in any way that it looks you are hunting in cemeteries.
Otherwise, you are good to go, I would think.
 
Just don't hunt cemeteries or hunt in any way that it looks you are hunting in cemeteries.
Otherwise, you are good to go, I would think.

I agree, at least as a general rule. But check your state and local laws before doing so. My state has a statute that prohibits digging within 10' of a gravesite. 10'1", you are GTG tho. Also consider exactly WHO owns the site. Private property is private property.

Be careful, perception is reality to most people. I'd have a good story handy too. Like 'my wife thinks she dropped her wedding ring/housekey here when she was visiting great granny's grave last week'.

I dont hunt graves- risk v reward, which is a individual thing. ymwv.
 
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