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"Un-exploded ordnance" - updated with origin/conclusion

I hate emojis, they are like swearing, they're for people who are too ignorant or lazy to get the gist across with words alone. Some people have a way with words, and some people.................... oh, not have way.

That was a very nice "E"! Thanks for sharing.

Josh

P.S. Do you hate me because I use emojis? Jk.
 
I dug a can that sounded full when I shook it hard.
Cleaned up with grill brush and saw blasting caps dangerous.
I put it back deep in the ground, people here gave me grief over that
 

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I dug a can that sounded full when I shook it hard.
Cleaned up with grill brush and saw blasting caps dangerous.
I put it back deep in the ground, people here gave me grief over that

Good call on the burial. Blasting caps are extremely dangerous when they get old and corroded. You got lucky shaking it.

Steve
 
As a former Corps of Engineers, Construction Div. employee at 2 Army posts, I can tell you that while there are rules regarding finds there are no preventive measures. You need to dig you dig whether its a backhoe, a shovel or a rod. Only remember one piece of ordnance where they placed a charge to detonate in place in the ground, nothing happened. Also crews are taught if you find an artifact drop it and keep going.
 
Well my oldest finally stopped by last night and I asked him about it since he is EOD for the military. Simply put any type of bullet 50 cal or smaller really doesn't pose much of a threat to anyone. The problems can come up if you're detecting a defunct range where artillery, mortars or other types of explosives may of been used in the past. Basically anything with an inline fuse WWII era stuff can become unstable and if hit the wrong way and has the potential of going off and seriously injuring or killing you. Apparently they would often sweep the main portion of the range to clear it prior to setting up new targets but for UXO's that went astray somewhere they never made much of a point going after them to make sure they were safe as long as they had a clear path to set up new targets. Your chances of stumbling across something on the main area of a old base are pretty slim but if it's a range be careful where you're planting your shovel. I guess the modern stuff is more stable and forgiving but that old stuff can still pack a punch.
 
... and I asked him about it since he is EOD for the military. ....

Thanx T-man. I guess this is sort of a "loaded question" (no pun intended).

It's kind of like asking : "Can you get eaten by a shark if you wade and splash and/or swim in the ocean ?" Someone *can indeed* show cases where, sure.... someone got chomped by a shark somewhere in the world last year. Right? So you CAN'T DENY that the "possibility exists". Thus ... gee .. should we ban swimming on every beach in the world ? After all, you *might* get eaten by a shark, eh? :roll:

At a certain point you have to ask not "Is it possible ?". But rather: "Is it even remotely likely ?". Because millions of people swim in the ocean daily, w/o issue. And the fact that 1 person per year, worldwide, is chomped by a shark, does NOT mean: " Therefore swimming is dangerous". Eh ?
 
Thanx T-man. I guess this is sort of a "loaded question" (no pun intended).

It's kind of like asking : "Can you get eaten by a shark if you wade and splash and/or swim in the ocean ?" Someone *can indeed* show cases where, sure.... someone got chomped by a shark somewhere in the world last year. Right? So you CAN'T DENY that the "possibility exists". Thus ... gee .. should we ban swimming on every beach in the world ? After all, you *might* get eaten by a shark, eh? :roll:

At a certain point you have to ask not "Is it possible ?". But rather: "Is it even remotely likely ?". Because millions of people swim in the ocean daily, w/o issue. And the fact that 1 person per year, worldwide, is chomped by a shark, does NOT mean: " Therefore swimming is dangerous". Eh ?

I'll use your own scenario for finding gold. You search where the odds if finding it are better. You want a bomb that could blow you apart? Search the areas they were used most. Odds of coming across them in the US are low but head to Europe or Asia and there are plenty of people walking or hobbling along without a limb where they hit an old UXO. Doesn't matter much if it was with a shovel or tiller end result is the same. Honestly I'd be more worried about being eaten by a shark in Ohio the setting off a bomb but people do win the lottery.
 
.... but people do win the lottery.

uh, ok. And to extend the analogy here: Since some people *do* win the lottery, and some people *do* get blown up in Europe when plowing their fields, or eaten by sharks , then:

a) plowing fields in Europe ought to be illegal.

b) swimming at the beach ought to be illegal.

After all, people *do* win lotteries ? :?: And we're just "trying to protect lives". Right ? :?:
 
In lake St Clair where I dive outside of Selfridge ANG base there are TWO Sidewinder missiles that were launched on accident. Neither was armed and neither detonated. I was told I am allowed to keep them if found. LOL Now that would be an interesting object in my museum!
 
Hey gang, a certain closed military base, in CA (that shall remain anonymous) has just issued an edict, that metal detectors are not allowed. Apparently, prior to this recent edict, it wasn't *specifically* disallowed. But the article that outlined it *did* say that the activity fell afoul of "alter and deface" and "remove", blah blah verbiage. And I have a sneaking suspicion of why they *now* need to make something specific (since, even they admitted they could have scrammed someone *already*, with existing verbiage).

But the reason for this post, is to bring up their rationale for their new official rule : "Unexploded ordnance". The cover story to the article, which talked about the new rule, said that the persons who were making this new rule, were concerned that someone using a "shovel or a pick" could "inadvertently strike a grenade or unexploded military ordnance and injure themselves".

What is odd, is that this base has been detected for DECADES. And ... no ... no one has "injured themselves".

In fact, humorously, one part of the base (that had been decommissioned) was an old artillery practice range. And ... there was fear years ago, that there "might be dangerous live rounds". So the govt. ponied up MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars to clear out all the rounds (whether live, or spent), "lest someone get hurt". And I know the detector dealer who sold them the metal detectors. And the dealer asked one of the operators "How many live rounds have you actually found there ?" Turns out, that in all the years they'd been working thus far, they found something like a grand total of 3. That could be considered "live" (un-spent). And oddly, were found in a field that had also doubled as tank practice grounds. So that these heavy lumbering tanks, with the track-cleats that chew up and tear up the ground, had been also driving all over the place. Yet. No danger. None ever exploded, etc.... :roll:

Ok, now, pray-tell, HOW IN THE NAME OF PETE is a guy with a metal detector going to injure himself on a live round , of any type ? We have found plenty of live rounds (soldiers who ditch entire clips, so they can tell the drill-sergeant that they're done with range-practice for the day, I suppose). And trust me; Even if you banged on them with a hammer, you'd be hard-pressed to get any reaction. Nor could there be "artillery shells" around barracks and locations that had nothing at all to do with artillery.

I know I'm late to the game, here, Tom, and I apologize for that. If you're interested in seeing who gets injured from Unexploded Ordinance (UXO), the government produces a report:
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/2001uxoreport.pdf

I'm aware of such things, as a former Army-brat, we were taught about never touching things while down range. And we did, in fact, come across stuff once in a while. The only stuff of concern wasn't unfired rounds, it unexploded ordinance. The thing is, many of those fields were used for firing across the last 100+ years, and nobody kept data about what and where stuff was lost/fired.

Tragically, stuff does happen. I remember in school (on base), they would come and talk to us about that stuff, and often told the story of the boy who picked up an anti-tank round, and it blew up and killed him. Turns out, it was a real story. It's in the report. 1972.

So.. stuff does happen, and in the world of military safety and civilians, it's always better to be safe, than open things up and have "acceptable losses."

Case-by-case, you can find that most of the injuries are actual ordinance. I've never heard of a rifle or pistol round ever causing injury, through simple disturbance.

But you can bet dimes to dollars, you'd never find me using a metal detector digging at the Ft. Sill ranges... even if the area showed they were only used for live fire of bullets.
Reasoning: This report only shows the people injured. I personally saw a half-buried "something" with fins while out squirrel hunting in an area that shouldn't have had anything (next to the cemetery where the Apache Chief Geronimo was buried). My father recognized it as a bomblet from ordinance, it was reported and removed. The area was then closed while they came in and swept for more.

When it comes to military bases, quite frankly, unless you're in the HOUSING area, if the government restricts it, Tom, just move on to a new place. It only takes once, with a Lesche digger to prove yourself wrong, and the consequence is pretty dang high.

Hand grenades end up in the weirdest places, so do things that 18-year olds carry and then "ditch" because their CO is looking their direction. The quartermasters I knew were 19-20 years old, and their judgement wasn't always the most awesome.

Cheers,

Skippy
 
.... Tragically, stuff does happen....

thanx for chiming in Skippy. My comments to what you're saying are: Sure: "Stuff happens". I'm sure there's horror stories of persons who got attacked by sharks, or a plane *could* crash on your house, you *could* get stung to death by bees, etc.... No dispute there.

The question is not "could it happen ?" The question is: "How likely is it ? "

And if you canvass the entire USA, studying all the people who have done hobbyist md'ing at places where military activity once occurred (forts, military bases, battlefields, etc...) and then from there found out "How many of them injured themselves on UXO ?". My hunch would be zero.

And to whatever extent you did come up with a hobbyist example of someone who injured himself (like the clown who took home C.W. landmines to display on his mantle) : Sure. And so too can I show you fluke examples of the dude who had a plane crash on his house or got stung to death by bees.

At a certain point, you have to be able to exit your front door in the morning :roll:
 
thanx for chiming in Skippy. My comments to what you're saying are: Sure: "Stuff happens". I'm sure there's horror stories of persons who got attacked by sharks, or a plane *could* crash on your house, you *could* get stung to death by bees, etc.... No dispute there.

The question is not "could it happen ?" The question is: "How likely is it ? "

And if you canvass the entire USA, studying all the people who have done hobbyist md'ing at places where military activity once occurred (forts, military bases, battlefields, etc...) and then from there found out "How many of them injured themselves on UXO ?". My hunch would be zero.

And to whatever extent you did come up with a hobbyist example of someone who injured himself (like the clown who took home C.W. landmines to display on his mantle) : Sure. And so too can I show you fluke examples of the dude who had a plane crash on his house or got stung to death by bees.

At a certain point, you have to be able to exit your front door in the morning :roll:

Agreed. But I think one of the reasons you don't find MD'ers blowing themselves up from UXO is because the military puts rules in place. I certainly wouldn't want to test those odds at the old Ft. Sill ranges. In the housing areas? you betcha. Quadrangle? Even better... Range? Never in a million years. Not worth it. I've got better places to detect (like the housing area and Quad!).

I get the sense you're complaining that you don't have access to the range area, even though "tanks have driven all over it." Just pick a different place. The argument that you must be allowed to access it, is bogus... to many places YOU will never detect thoroughly to demand access to this one. You're just like the Archie's saying nobody should get access, if you're taking the opposite stance of unfettered access. The answer is in the middle. :)

Skippy
 
And if you canvass the entire USA, studying all the people who have done hobbyist md'ing at places where military activity once occurred (forts, military bases, battlefields, etc...) and then from there found out "How many of them injured themselves on UXO ?". My hunch would be zero.

That tells me you didn't actually click the link I provided. Your hunch is correct. It's zero. The UXO injuries are all listed in the link.
 
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