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  #61  
Old 09-13-2021, 10:54 AM
Beachhunt1 Beachhunt1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Detector View post
I think the idea of making a better detector than the 800 would be a tough one to do, but one as good but cheaper is within the realm of possibility.

Having owned both I see the Equinox 800 as a scaled down $800 version of the CTX3030. The multi-frequency technology of the E-Trac/CTX3030 has never been revealed. I think the Multi-IQ isn't new detector technology as much as it is more details of the FBS technology with a faster processor.

The Equinox 800s claim to fame, in my opinion, is price. If Nokta can produce this same technology at an even low price, they will set a new bar.
Well since I only hunt salt water, will be keeping a watchful eye on this one.
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  #62  
Old 09-14-2021, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mh9162013 View post
Sad, but true...

Another good example is insurance. Generally speaking, the more a company advertises on TV (and now, maybe social media), the worse of an insurance company it is.
This is a very wise and insightful comment.

The very greatest do not need paid advertising, they acquire word of mouth advertising from satisfied customers that is unbeatable.
This is true for all types of business,
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  #63  
Old 09-14-2021, 10:15 PM
atomicbrh atomicbrh is offline
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Originally Posted by mh9162013 View post
Sad, but true...

Another good example is insurance. Generally speaking, the more a company advertises on TV (and now, maybe social media), the worse of an insurance company it is.
Not just insurance but any company such as furniture companies and car dealerships that have a huge advertising budget should be avoided at all costs.
Frequent ads and radio/tv time usually means catering to customers with bad credit who have to finance everything and do not know a poorly made product when they see it.
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  #64  
Old 09-15-2021, 04:53 PM
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Somebody explain why you need more than 50 numerical segments for the I.D.. You have 50 tones to work with also. I've had a 99 numerical I.D. machine, and didn't find it particularly helpful in eliminating digging trash.

To me the more numbers you have the more the I.D. numbers fluctuate on deeper targets. Plus there seems to me to be a wider set of numbers to contend with for say square tabs. Does a 99 I.D. machine tell nickels from square tabs better. Or a IHP from a Zinc penny? Or maybe a penny from a dime? I had the 99 I.D. machine over a year when I switched to the Equinox and I didn't feel I started having problems digging more trash. As a matter of fact I've seen the Equinox out I.D. some other highly respected detectors.

I fully admit I could be wrong, but in my experience the Equinox I.D. is absolutely fine.

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Years detecting: (4) Equinox 800 (2), Coiltek Equinox 10x5, Garrett Carrots. Oldest coins: 1851 Seated Dime, 1863 IHP, 1865 IHP, 1867 2 Cent Piece. Total silver coins found: 112, 2021 silver coins: 18

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  #65  
Old 09-15-2021, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by longbow62 View post
Somebody explain why you need more than 50 numerical segments for the I.D.. You have 50 tones to work with also. I've had a 99 numerical I.D. machine, and didn't find it particularly helpful in eliminating digging trash.

To me the more numbers you have the more the I.D. numbers fluctuate on deeper targets. Plus there seems to me to be a wider set of numbers to contend with for say square tabs. Does a 99 I.D. machine tell nickels from square tabs better. Or a IHP from a Zinc penny? Or maybe a penny from a dime? I had the 99 I.D. machine over a year when I switched to the Equinox and I didn't feel I started having problems digging more trash. As a matter of fact I've seen the Equinox out I.D. some other highly respected detectors.

I fully admit I could be wrong, but in my experience the Equinox I.D. is absolutely fine.
Yes I can tell a zinc from a copper and a dime from a zinc with 99 points of ID... Iíve used the Xterra 705 for a long time. And the visual ID is also compressed but itís way more rock solid than the Equinox. To me thatís the only downfall I have with the Equinox ,the visual ID plain stinks but thatís just my opinion. But hey,if it works for you thatís great...
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  #66  
Old 09-15-2021, 05:39 PM
mh9162013 mh9162013 is offline
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Originally Posted by longbow62 View post
Somebody explain why you need more than 50 numerical segments for the I.D.. You have 50 tones to work with also. I've had a 99 numerical I.D. machine, and didn't find it particularly helpful in eliminating digging trash.

To me the more numbers you have the more the I.D. numbers fluctuate on deeper targets. Plus there seems to me to be a wider set of numbers to contend with for say square tabs. Does a 99 I.D. machine tell nickels from square tabs better. Or a IHP from a Zinc penny? Or maybe a penny from a dime? I had the 99 I.D. machine over a year when I switched to the Equinox and I didn't feel I started having problems digging more trash. As a matter of fact I've seen the Equinox out I.D. some other highly respected detectors.

I fully admit I could be wrong, but in my experience the Equinox I.D. is absolutely fine.
I'm with you - I don't think it's necessary.

No current metal detecting technology, in my opinion, is good enough where those extra segments will consistently make a difference. Why? Because of so many other variables that can affect the VDI.

Let's use Minelab's VDI scale as an example. Some say they can tell the difference between a reading of 13 and 14, ie it's a nickel or a non-nicklel. I believe them. But what good is that skill if the machine could be off a few hunts later? Maybe it's the changes in soil conditions (wet, not wet, different location, etc.) Or perhaps the ground balancing wasn't done quite the same way.

Put another way (for you scientists out there), this is an issue about "sig figs" (significant figures). What good is having a tool that can measure something to say...a hundredth of an millimeter if what you're measure can vary by 1 millimeter every time? That's right, there's no point.

So even if you can tell the difference between a 13 and 14 on your Minelab machine, it doesn't matter b/c environmental variables will result in changes that are more than 1 VDI segment. In other words, if a nickel on an Equinox is 13 +/- 2, what good is having a 100 segement VDI? All that'll change is that a nickel is 26 +/- 4.

I personally think it's a matter of preference...and that's fine. Go with what you're comfortable with.

Just like how a machine that can go up to 50 tones instead of say...25. How many people can honestly tell the difference? Not that many. Basically only the super duper hardcore users of that machine can tell the diference...and those with perfect pitch.
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  #67  
Old 09-15-2021, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by longbow62 View post
Somebody explain why you need more than 50 numerical segments for the I.D.. You have 50 tones to work with also. I've had a 99 numerical I.D. machine, and didn't find it particularly helpful in eliminating digging trash.

To me the more numbers you have the more the I.D. numbers fluctuate on deeper targets. Plus there seems to me to be a wider set of numbers to contend with for say square tabs. Does a 99 I.D. machine tell nickels from square tabs better. Or a IHP from a Zinc penny? Or maybe a penny from a dime? I had the 99 I.D. machine over a year when I switched to the Equinox and I didn't feel I started having problems digging more trash. As a matter of fact I've seen the Equinox out I.D. some other highly respected detectors.

I fully admit I could be wrong, but in my experience the Equinox I.D. is absolutely fine.
Let me double down on woodbutcher's response. I can tell the difference between targets soooo much more accurately with more target ID segments. Now I know target ID isn't of importance to some, but to me, it is feature #1. If I'm going to bend over to recover a target I want the very best odds it will be worth it. I've done the recover it all for far too many years and my body knows it. Like the E-Trac. I simply love the dual-target ID setup. Often I could get a questionable conductive VDI, but the non-conductive VDI would tell the rest of the story. Still not 100%, but in my experience, far more reliable than anything else on the market.

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  #68  
Old 09-15-2021, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Detector View post
If I'm going to bend over to recover a target I want the very best odds it will be worth it. I've done the recover it all for far too many years and my body knows it.
Same here. The older I get, the more I appreciate every single bit of target information a detector can provide.

Tone is king IMHO, but itís only part of the equation. Putting it all together is where the magic happens.


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  #69  
Old 09-16-2021, 06:15 PM
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[QUOTE=longbow62;3336833]Somebody explain why you need more than 50 numerical segments for the I.D.. You have 50 tones to work with also. I've had a 99 numerical I.D. machine, and didn't find it particularly helpful in eliminating digging trash.

To me the more numbers you have the more the I.D. numbers fluctuate on deeper targets. Plus there seems to me to be a wider set of numbers to contend with for say square tabs. Does a 99 I.D. machine tell nickels from square tabs better. Or a IHP from a Zinc penny? Or maybe a penny from a dime? I had the 99 I.D. machine over a year when I switched to the Equinox and I didn't feel I started having problems digging more trash. As a matter of fact I've seen the Equinox out I.D. some other highly respected detectors.

I fully admit I could be wrong, but in my experience the Equinox I.D. is absolutely fine.[/QUOTE

A 99 target Id for me is a make or brake as far as the the new Nokta SWORD is concerned. My first 2 yrs, I hunted with an AT Pro and never did I dig a wheat, memorial or other small copper without knowing it was a penny of some sort. So yeah for me a stretch between a penny and a dime is crucial. I am sick of ( especially in nice yards ) digging 20 to 30 pennies that sounded too good to pass up. IMO every tweak on the 800 won't tell you, it will tell you its a coin, just not what coin. So my hope is a wider Id range an if so I will buy one. Just not soon. I saw there are more delays on the release.

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Last edited by markinswpa; 09-16-2021 at 06:29 PM. Reason: add text
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  #70  
Old 09-17-2021, 11:27 PM
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Some relic hunters like an expanded iron range. More VDI numbers in the iron area. It helps identify nails easier from other iron items that they like to dig.

The new Nokta detector can be successful and be an improvement over the Equinox in a few areas. Waterproof ability is one. The Equinox has a bad reputation on that. Ergonomics is another. The Equinox is terrible. Many of us had to buy a counter weighted shaft.

Price? Maybe? In the Covid world anything electronic has been inflated in price. How Turkey is doing is a guess on my part. But Chips and IC's are in high demand. Demand drives up cost.

The thing to remember is everyone already has an Equinox. Getting us to replace it or add one to the collection is going to take a detector that performs above what we have now. We shall see. Depth, Unmasking, Target ID, Iron ID.......all the things we look for and to be honest.....seldom get. The closets are full of high hopes.

And one last thing on the subject. Minelab has not been idle.

Oh and I'm glad to see Nokta go normal bluetooth. Those color coded headphones of past models was disappointing.

Last edited by goodmore; 09-17-2021 at 11:59 PM.
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  #71  
Old 09-18-2021, 02:33 AM
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I love my Nox 600, but I do miss the scale on my Fisher F75. Combining tones with expanded scale VDI is just more information.

I'm very interesting in the Nokta SMF detector. I really like hearing they are going to standard Bluetooth. Now we need some manufacturers to make standard Bluetooth pinpointers to connect to our headphones/earbuds.

Can't wait!

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