Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Is detector VDI accuracy important to you?

Cherry Picker

Cherry Picker

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When I was much younger VDI accuracy was a nonissue, just good tones. Now that I've gotten older the VDI accuracy has become more important to me than the tones. Not to say tones aren't important, but that VDI accuracy has become as important, if not more, than tone.

I am limited in my ability to dig all those iffy signals. Yes, I know I am missing stuff, but it is what it is. If you only could recover 4 targets on each hunt wouldn't you tend to be a bit more selective on what you spend time recovering? That's me now.

VDI accuracy has become one of the main qualities I demand in my detector. I see all these Youtube comparisons, like the Deus II and the Equinox 800 for example, and you can't even see the VDI on both to compare which is more accurate, only which has a tone. I looking at you Calabash, LOL.

Perhaps this explains why all the new detectors have ever more compressed VDIs? I would think people would want the most information on a target they can get, be it sound or VDI?
 
I think VDI accuracy is a little overrated b/c of the number of variables that can affect a VDI (soil moisture levels, condition of target, mineralization, depth, swing speed, ground balancing settings, etc.)

For me, I go mostly off of sounds and whether the VDI is "within diggable range."

I think having a bigger VDI range is almost worthless. What good ia 0-99 over 0-49 (hypothetically) if it gives you a 50 to 51 VDI reading instead of a solid 25?

People say that extra level of VDI increments can help, but I'm willing to bet for the majority of people, it doesn't help as much as they think.

Increased accuracy is not very useful without a corresponding increase in precision. And right now, even with SMF technology, we're not at a point where our machines can overcome the vast levels of soil and hunting variability so that a 13 on an Equinox in the Nevada desert is the same as a 13 on an Equinox in England.
 
mh9162013 said:
I think VDI accuracy is a little overrated b/c of the number of variables that can affect a VDI (soil moisture levels, condition of target, mineralization, depth, swing speed, ground balancing settings, etc.)

For me, I go mostly off of sounds and whether the VDI is "within diggable range."

I think having a bigger VDI range is almost worthless. What good ia 0-99 over 0-49 (hypothetically) if it gives you a 50 to 51 VDI reading instead of a solid 25?

People say that extra level of VDI increments can help, but I'm willing to bet for the majority of people, it doesn't help as much as they think.

Increased accuracy is not very useful without a corresponding increase in precision. And right now, even with SMF technology, we're not at a point where our machines can overcome the vast levels of soil and hunting variability so that a 13 on an Equinox in the Nevada desert is the same as a 13 on an Equinox in England.
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20 years ago I'd have felt the same way, but having COPD limits my hunting immensely.

If you could only recover 4 targets on a hunt I guarantee you'd look at target ID accuracy differently. With COPD I can only bend over and recover about 4 targets before I'm out of breath and have to go home and recover. I have to spend roughly 15 minutes just to recover a target that is 6" or more. I have to rest in between digging is why.

In our city park, it has a lot of rusted iron junk like nails and wire that sound just like very deep coins. But, with a good VDI, like on the E-Traac, it may sound good and read a good CO VDI, but the FE VDI will tell me it is iron is very good accuracy. These new compressed VDI detectors are reliant on sound. I've noticed the VDI jumps all over, and it should with only 30-50 target ID segments. So on very deep targets, like in our park, a coin will sound just like a deep rusted nail or piece of wire. Only an accurate VDI will give me the info I need to make the decision to spend one of my 4 recoveries or not. No, it isn't 100% reliable, but much more so than the compressed VDIs.
 
Detector said:
20 years ago I'd have felt the same way, but having COPD limits my hunting immensely.

If you could only recover 4 targets on a hunt I guarantee you'd look at target ID accuracy differently. With COPD I can only bend over and recover about 4 targets before I'm out of breath and have to go home and recover. I have to spend roughly 15 minutes just to recover a target that is 6" or more. I have to rest in between digging is why.

In our city park, it has a lot of rusted iron junk like nails and wire that sound just like very deep coins. But, with a good VDI, like on the E-Traac, it may sound good and read a good CO VDI, but the FE VDI will tell me it is iron is very good accuracy. These new compressed VDI detectors are reliant on sound. I've noticed the VDI jumps all over, and it should with only 30-50 target ID segments. So on very deep targets, like in our park, a coin will sound just like a deep rusted nail or piece of wire. Only an accurate VDI will give me the info I need to make the decision to spend one of my 4 recoveries or not. No, it isn't 100% reliable, but much more so than the compressed VDIs.
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No, I wouldn't. That's because the VDI reading is only so reliable in terms of consistency and accuracy.

So using your example of 4 digs in a hunt, let's say I was looking for...silver coins and modern clad other than pennies (which is a common approach I take). I won't focus on a specific VDI number with my Equinox (or even AT Max when I used that). Instead, I'll focus on a range, say anything 22 or above. Then as I dig my targets, I may tweak that range and/or my settings.

For instance, if a Zincoln rang up as a 21, I'd double check my GB settings and if they're fine, I might only dig targets that ring up as a 23 or above.

Or if one day I was feeling particularly masochistic, I'll look for nickels. With my Equinox 600, I'll start the hunt by digging targets b/w 12 and 16 even though most nickels I've dug are 13.
 
I am 60/40 today. Sixty, numbers, forty tones. I used to be 40/60 until I got old and couldn't dig as many holes anymore, but it was also a factor of hunt spots drying up of its treasure.

So, my ears work well for stop & investigate and then the numbers have to be close for me to dig. If you had my black clay soil, you wouldn't make as many holes either, without two verifying factors saying, DIG ME.
 
mh9162013 said:
No, I wouldn't. That's because the VDI reading is only so reliable in terms of consistency and accuracy.

So using your example of 4 digs in a hunt, let's say I was looking for...silver coins and modern clad other than pennies (which is a common approach I take). I won't focus on a specific VDI number with my Equinox (or even AT Max when I used that). Instead, I'll focus on a range, say anything 22 or above. Then as I dig my targets, I may tweak that range and/or my settings.

For instance, if a Zincoln rang up as a 21, I'd double check my GB settings and if they're fine, I might only dig targets that ring up as a 23 or above.

Or if one day I was feeling particularly masochistic, I'll look for nickels. With my Equinox 600, I'll start the hunt by digging targets b/w 12 and 16 even though most nickels I've dug are 13.
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The VDI reading is not accurate because it is so compressed.

If you recovered targets in our park based on tone only, you'd be going home empty handed a lot. Again, deep rusted iron & wire sound just like a deep coin. They also read like one unless you can read the FE (ferrous) content of the target. I have used the NOX 800, Deus, CTX3030, and many more in this park, and spent a lot of my hunts recovering rusted iron.

People have become so reliant only on sound because the VDI has become worthless. I remember the day when people felt the more information you can get on a target the better. Of course, unless you're a dig it all hunter. For those I say good for you, you'll find far more. But for people like myself that are limited to a small number of recoveries, we have to make every target count.
 
I know exactly what you mean Detector. On some days my back hurts so bad that I just can’t dig a lot of holes. After just a few, I’m in a lot of pain and ready to call it a day. On those days it’s nice to have a detector that allows me to do some pretty accurate selective digging. I still value tone above all else but having a solid target ID to back it up sure is a big plus. When you get that 12-44/45 with that high pitched FBS squeal, you know you most likely have a silver dime. The older and more broken down I get, the more I appreciate that accuracy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Detector,I'm on the same page as you. We don't all have the same wants and needs,and it's great we have so many new and old machines to pick through.
My opinion is these newer machines are great unmaskers,but give up the ability to correctly ID . That's just my opinion.
I like the older more stable machines that correctly ID .. Etrac would be at the top of my list, F75ltd2,at pro,makro racer etc..Those machines give a solid signal and ID for ME, compared to the hyper sensitive unmaskers of today.
 
Detector said:
The VDI reading is not accurate because it is so compressed.

If you recovered targets in our park based on tone only, you'd be going home empty handed a lot. Again, deep rusted iron & wire sound just like a deep coin. They also read like one unless you can read the FE (ferrous) content of the target. I have used the NOX 800, Deus, CTX3030, and many more in this park, and spent a lot of my hunts recovering rusted iron.

People have become so reliant only on sound because the VDI has become worthless. I remember the day when people felt the more information you can get on a target the better. Of course, unless you're a dig it all hunter. For those I say good for you, you'll find far more. But for people like myself that are limited to a small number of recoveries, we have to make every target count.
Click to expand...

Compression (by itself) only affects precision, not accuracy. You and many others say a single digit VDI reading on a compressed VDI scale like on an Equinox isn't as useful as a noncompressed scale. But like I said before, a single digit on a compressed scale is probably the same as a 2-3 VDI digit range on a larger scale. And in situations where it's not, the vast variability in digging conditions and hunting styles means that the increased level of accuracy in the noncompressed VDI isn't as useful as you might think it is.


I'm like you in that I need to make every dig count. I don't have much time to hunt and I often hunt in parks, so I need to maximize my chances of making "the most" of every dig.
 
The VDI of a target can vary as you remove soil from the hole..Also, VDI can vary if you have a mix of targets under the coil ie a coin at say six inches and a bit of rusty nail at 9 inches and off to the side a little...With that in mind, I use VDI's as a guide only....

I ve never used a CTX nor a Deus which both have graphical displays, but it's sounds an interesting concept and anything that supplies more accurate target info is a good idea...

To be honest though, if I were limited to only digging 4 targets a session, I would probably find a different hobby...
 
mh9162013 said:
Compression (by itself) only affects precision, not accuracy. You and many others say a single digit VDI reading on a compressed VDI scale like on an Equinox isn't as useful as a noncompressed scale. But like I said before, a single digit on a compressed scale is probably the same as a 2-3 VDI digit range on a larger scale. And in situations where it's not, the vast variability in digging conditions and hunting styles means that the increased level of accuracy in the noncompressed VDI isn't as useful as you might think it is.


I'm like you in that I need to make every dig count. I don't have much time to hunt and I often hunt in parks, so I need to maximize my chances of making "the most" of every dig.
Click to expand...

The compressed Vdi scale really doesn't bother me, at least with the Equinox. I hunt mainly high conductors, copper-pennies, dimes, quarters and all the rest of Vdi numbers above as long as they are "mostly" stable. I'd feel different if I looked over a more broad spectrum. Notching in a nickel @13 for one. I don't take any of those that's not a stable 13. As far as high conductors goes though? I like Vdi-s 25-40. Dig them if at all stable.
 
Martin_V3i said:
The compressed Vdi scale really doesn't bother me, at least with the Equinox. I hunt mainly high conductors, copper-pennies, dimes, quarters and all the rest of Vdi numbers above as long as they are "mostly" stable. I'd feel different if I looked over a more broad spectrum. Notching in a nickel @13 for one. I don't take any of those that's not a stable 13. As far as high conductors goes though? I like Vdi-s 25-40. Dig them if at all stable.
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For the most part, that's my hunting approach. The compressed VDI of MIQ machines doesn't bother me either.
 
Tone stops me, then I look at V.D.I.. It's very important on whether I dig or not.
Some people hate the 50 segments on the Equinox. I think it gives plenty of info.

Tone, VDI, Depth, circling, lifting the coil while hovering over the target. Those 5 things tell me what I need to know where I hunt.
 
I use the AT Pro. The great tones of this machine are my primary source whether to dig or not. I never look at the depth gauge as the softness or sharpness of the tone lets me know how deep the target is. Regarding the VDI, I use that to eliminate shallow Zincolns (they are always 75-76) and to help me home in better on nickels (49-53 depending on depth). So yeah, I could hunt and still be very successful with duct tape over my VDI readout.
 
mh9162013 said:
Compression (by itself) only affects precision, not accuracy.
Click to expand...

I agree completely, but unfortunately. say a Nickle at 31 is dead on but because of a compressed VDI a piece of foil can also read a dead on 31, or a pull tab. Where even on the older Whites DFX, with 191 target ID segments, A nickel would read 24 and foil at 15. You could easily tell an Indian, from a Zinc from a clad penny, or a silver dime from a clad dime.

As I said, for 30 years I was a dig it all but no longer. Like was said, the tone gets my attention, and then the VDI & tone make the decision to bend over or not. I'm not knocking those who live by the tone, just that I miss having that accurate VDI on the new machines. I'd still own the NOX 800 if it had more TIDs.
 
Detector said:
I agree completely, but unfortunately. say a Nickle at 31 is dead on but because of a compressed VDI a piece of foil can also read a dead on 31, or a pull tab. Where even on the older Whites DFX, with 191 target ID segments, A nickel would read 24 and foil at 15. You could easily tell an Indian, from a Zinc from a clad penny, or a silver dime from a clad dime.

As I said, for 30 years I was a dig it all but no longer. Like was said, the tone gets my attention, and then the VDI & tone make the decision to bend over or not. I'm not knocking those who live by the tone, just that I miss having that accurate VDI on the new machines. I'd still own the NOX 800 if it had more TIDs.
Click to expand...

I understand your example, but I question its general applicability. I don't know the DFX, but assuming it's as good as you say it is with its VDI, I'm betting it's related to its underlying technology, not the fact that it has a less compressed VDI scale.
 
I agree with Wood on wants an needs and many of the new machines VDIs are all over the place. On the beep and digs you almost knew if you had a good find by the sound. As Martin said, only digging 4 targets may not be worth continuing the hobby but you may consider getting a longer handled shovel or something so you could dig more. Best of luck.
 
Years ago on the Whites unit it was the Spectrum analyzer. This feature was used as a verification of the target. Today detecting is still done with the ears. Any VDI is used as a secondary verification to dig. Would I buy a detector without it? Nope!
 
goodmore said:
Years ago on the Whites unit it was the Spectrum analyzer. This feature was used as a verification of the target. Today detecting is still done with the ears. Any VDI is used as a secondary verification to dig. Would I buy a detector without it? Nope!
Click to expand...

Whites Spectra V3i has an analysis screen called polar which is as state of the art as the Smartfind screen in FBS. Only thing is that the processor in the V3i wasn't as fast as Minelab's Smartfind screen with active searching when using the polar display on the Whites V3i. Still, that polar display on the Whites is a great delineator for digging good and bad targets. It is just too bad that Whites had its troubles in management. I wonder a little if Garretts will possibly engineer a machine around the V3i since they bought the company. There is a lot of technology Garretts could use being the V3i is a multi frequency machine, just about the first.
 
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