Big Boys Hobbies

My thoughts on the XP Deus 2 after 50 hours.

longbow62 said:
I'm not trying to throw cold water on the success you have had with the Deus II, but in your opinion would the Equinox have found the same number of coins? The only reason I ask is because so far I have not witnessed a target the DII can hit and the Equinox can't in the wild. I swing Nox 800. Buddy swings DII. We've compared I'm thinking in the hundreds of targets. So far like I said they both hit targets equally the same.
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I think the Nox would likely hit most, if not all of the targets. By “hit”, I mean alert that a target is there. I do NOT think it would’ve given a proper coin ID on the mixed tones that I mentioned above. I think that’s the D2’s special sauce, which has allowed me to pull many more coins from heavily hunted sites.


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Digalicious said:
For unmasking coins in nonferrous trash, I would never go over 10 khz in either SF or SMF. Reason being, once detectors get to around the 15 khz range in either SF or SMF, then coins in nonferrous trash often give a lower tone and ID. TNS has shown this to be the case numerous times on the Legend and the Nox.
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I hunt in pitch tones, so a target reading 70 isn’t going to sound any lower than a target reading 90. That’s not really what I’m talking about here anyway. What I’m getting at, is that regardless of frequency weight, the notch feature on the D2 seems to affect how two mixed targets (a high conductor next to a mid conductor) will ID. For example, if you have a piece of aluminum next to a silver coin with NO notch, you might get a mixed ID of 82. Add some notch all the way to say 86, then scan the target again. Now the silver coin might read 89. You’ve effectively notched out the junk target yet the silver coin still comes through in the coin range. I believe this may be why I’m finding more coins in heavily hunted spots loaded with modern trash. TNSS did a good demonstration in his video I mentioned above.


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Rattlehead said:
I hunt in pitch tones, so a target reading 70 isn’t going to sound any lower than a target reading 90. That’s not really what I’m talking about here anyway. What I’m getting at, is that regardless of frequency weight, the notch feature on the D2 seems to affect how two mixed targets (a high conductor next to a mid conductor) will ID. For example, if you have a piece of aluminum next to a silver coin with NO notch, you might get a mixed ID of 82. Add some notch all the way to say 86, then scan the target again. Now the silver coin might read 89. You’ve effectively notched out the junk target yet the silver coin still comes through in the coin range. I believe this may be why I’m finding more coins in heavily hunted spots loaded with modern trash. TNSS did a good demonstration in his video I mentioned above.


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Click to expand...

What I'm getting at, is you shouldn't have to do some weird notch thing to get a high ID on coins in nonferrous trash.

BUT- Now I know why TNS did that weird notch thing on the Legend and D2, when I asked him to compare the Legend to the D2 in his coin / foil test. He did no weird notching on the Legend or Nox, when he showed the Legend in MW unmasking better than the Nox. I asked him why he was notching the Legend and D2, but he didn't answer. Now I see it's because if he didn't notch the D2, then the D2 would have shown a low ID on the masked coin, while the Legend showed a high ID on the masked coin.
 
Digalicious said:
What I'm getting at, is you shouldn't have to do some weird notch thing to get a high ID on coins in nonferrous trash.
Click to expand...

I’m not talking about foil like what was being discussed in the whole Legend debate. I’m talking about a coin next to a mid conductor like a fairy large piece of aluminum. That will drag your ID down out of the coin range regardless of frequency weight.

Anyway, I have no interest whatsoever in the whole Legend vs Deus vs everything debate. I’m just pointing out that I think TNSS did a nice job demonstrating one of the D2’s strengths, and noting that I think that particular strength could be one of the main reasons I’ve had success with it.


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Rattlehead said:
I think the Nox would likely hit most, if not all of the targets. By “hit”, I mean alert that a target is there. I do NOT think it would’ve given a proper coin ID on the mixed tones that I mentioned above. I think that’s the D2’s special sauce, which has allowed me to pull many more coins from heavily hunted sites.


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Click to expand...

My buddy has really done well with his D2. The weird thing is he had a Nox 800 before I did then ended up selling it pretty quick. He was an Etrac guy. He never jelled with the Nox but I don't think he ever gave it a chance. He seems to loving his D2, but the D2 and Nox are closer to the same than the D2 and the Etrac. Go figure.
 
longbow62 said:
My buddy has really done well with his D2. The weird thing is he had a Nox 800 before I did then ended up selling it pretty quick. He was an Etrac guy. He never jelled with the Nox but I don't think he ever gave it a chance. He seems to loving his D2, but the D2 and Nox are closer to the same than the D2 and the Etrac. Go figure.
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I can understand that. It’s a big change going from something like an Etrac to a Nox. Takes some getting use to for sure. But yeah, like you said, seems like he’d have the same type of adjustment period going to a D2.


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Rattlehead said:
I’m not talking about foil like what was being discussed in the whole Legend debate. I’m talking about a coin next to a mid conductor like a fairy large piece of aluminum. That will drag your ID down out of the coin range regardless of frequency weight.

Anyway, I have no interest whatsoever in the whole Legend vs Deus vs everything debate. I’m just pointing out that I think TNSS did a nice job demonstrating one of the D2’s strengths, and noting that I think that particular strength could be one of the main reasons I’ve had success with it.


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...and I'm just pointing out the importance of frequency when trying to obtain a high ID on coins in nonferrous trash :) I'm looking forward to watching that video, because it sure is odd how notching is affecting the ID.

What I find even more odd, is that although the frequency is very important in unmasking high conductors in nonferrous trash, that doesn't seem to hold true to the same extent when unmasking coins in ferrous trash. More specifically, in ferrous trash, what seems much more important than frequency, is using a low iron bias setting.
 
That was an interesting video. It looks as though by using the notch, the D2's algorithm tends to ignore the notched part of the mixed signal and therefore isn't down averaging.
 
Digalicious said:
That was an interesting video. It looks as though by using the notch, the D2's algorithm tends to ignore the notched part of the mixed signal and therefore isn't down averaging.
Click to expand...

That’s EXACTLY what looks like is going on…seemingly as long as the two targets are far enough away from each other to illicit 2 different target detections. If you put a silver dime side by side with a pull tab so that they were touching, I don’t think you would see this ability. But it still is pretty impressive that it’s doing what it’s doing. We will never get everything out of the ground, but as primarily a coin shooter, this really looks like an advancement in ID that I can use. And I’m glad that these tests are being shown, even if they are specific situations. All very interesting…
 
Rattlehead said:
Giving credit where credit is due - (tnsharpshooter).

Pretty early on I realized the D2 was doing something special that I hadn't seen from any of my other detectors. When targets in the coin range are co-located with lower conductive non-ferrous trash targets, if you add some notch over the unwanted target range, the D2 can correctly sort and ID the targets in the coin range. I mentioned it in this post and have continued to use this method to unmask several coins in heavily hunted locations.

I just stumbled onto this by playing with settings. I had no idea why or how it was able to do this, I just knew it worked. By doing air tests, tnsharpshooter was able to figure out exactly what was happening. He even demonstrates that running the notch higher just below the coin range can help separate and ID coins laying near slightly lower conductors. The ID would normally be dragged down by the lower conductor and the target missed by anyone who is cherry picking. On other detectors, if you discriminated out the mixed signal, you'd never know the target was there. But running a higher notch on the D2, the machine is able to separate the two and make the coin read near the proper range. I think this is a big part of the reason I've had such good luck finding more silver at heavily hunted spots with the D2 this year. Anyway, tnsharpshooter figured this out with air tests. I think that says something for the validity of them! :cheers:
Click to expand...


Very easily understood explanation - thanks!

Never used a D2 or even been around one. One of my two detecting buddies uses a D1, so I've been around it a lot, but it's clearly a different beast than the D2. And he's actually starting to look around at used 800's right now (what I use), hoping to score on the Manticore discount for them, lol!

Anyway... This is a feature I have wished for, but didn't realize you could make the D2 do it. What I've been thinking of as "configurable weighting". Sounds like that's what the D2 is doing for you. Using the notch as the configurable variable.

Pretty cool...

- Dave
 
Digalicious said:
That was an interesting video. It looks as though by using the notch, the D2's algorithm tends to ignore the notched part of the mixed signal and therefore isn't down averaging.
Click to expand...


Yep. I’m not sure exactly how it works, but the fact that it does work that way would explain why right after adding a lot of notch, I started getting lots of targets in the coin range from my own yard which I’ve pounded for well over a decade. It would also explain why I’m still pulling silver from pounded parks and schools. Whatever magic is under the hood, I like it!


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UT_Dave said:
Very easily understood explanation - thanks!

Never used a D2 or even been around one. One of my two detecting buddies uses a D1, so I've been around it a lot, but it's clearly a different beast than the D2. And he's actually starting to look around at used 800's right now (what I use), hoping to score on the Manticore discount for them, lol!

Anyway... This is a feature I have wished for, but didn't realize you could make the D2 do it. What I've been thinking of as "configurable weighting". Sounds like that's what the D2 is doing for you. Using the notch as the configurable variable.

Pretty cool...

- Dave
Click to expand...


I’m looking forward to trying out the Manticore myself. I really like the fact that it has the 2D disc patterns with Target Trace!


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Rattlehead said:
Yep. I’m not sure exactly how it works, but the fact that it does work that way would explain why right after adding a lot of notch, I started getting lots of targets in the coin range from my own yard which I’ve pounded for well over a decade. It would also explain why I’m still pulling silver from pounded parks and schools. Whatever magic is under the hood, I like it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



The items in the video weren't that close. I bet that without having to notch, the Nox would show a high ID on that coin in 5 khz, or Park1 (especially if Park1 was weighted lower). I also bet that without having to notch, the legend would show a high ID on that coin in 4 khz or the MW SMF mode, which is 4 khz and 10khz...to that of which I think it leans mostly toward 4 khz.

With that said, if the D2 is actually changing the frequency weighting based on the notch, then that is really interesting. Except, I seriously doubt that it's changing the frequency. If I chose a frequency(s) on my detector, and the detector changed that frequency based on my notch, I wouldn't be happy.
 
Digalicious said:
The items in the video weren't that close. I bet that without having to notch, the Nox would show a high ID on that coin in 5 khz, or Park1 (especially if Park1 was weighted lower). I also bet that without having to notch, the legend would show a high ID on that coin in 4 khz or the MW SMF mode, which is 4 khz and 10khz...to that of which I think it leans mostly toward 4 khz.

With that said, if the D2 is actually changing the frequency weighting based on the notch, then that is really interesting. Except, I seriously doubt that it's changing the frequency. If I chose a frequency(s) on my detector, and the detector changed that frequency based on my notch, I wouldn't be happy.
Click to expand...


Possibly. It just makes me think there’s something to it due to the fact that I suddenly started getting targets in the coin range in my yard after adding a lot of notch. Like I said, it’s a very small yet trashy yard that I’ve hunted countless times with lots of different machines running lots of different frequencies. Yet somehow I didn’t hit these obvious coin signals until running the D2 with notch.


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Rattlehead said:
I’m looking forward to trying out the Manticore myself. I really like the fact that it has the 2D disc patterns with Target Trace!
Click to expand...


Likewise. I think I'm early enough in line, with a big enough dealer, I should get one of the first batch to reach the shore. I think I'm first in line with him for the small elliptical coil too.

But my buddy needs to look elsewhere for an 800. Mine ain't going anywhere.

- Dave
 
Rattlehead said:
Possibly. It just makes me think there’s something to it due to the fact that I suddenly started getting targets in the coin range in my yard after adding a lot of notch. Like I said, it’s a very small yet trashy yard that I’ve hunted countless times with lots of different machines running lots of different frequencies. Yet somehow I didn’t hit these obvious coin signals until running the D2 with notch.
Click to expand...

Honestly, those targets looked to be about 6" apart. As such, I was surprised that the D2 wasn't separating them and showing a high ID on that coin. It was almost as if the D2 was acting like it was in a very slow recovery speed, or somehow being overwhelmed by that junk target. For whatever reason, adding the notch either increased the recovery speed, or allowed the D2 to not be overwhelmed by that larger sized junk target. Either way, whatever works, is all good :)
 
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I watched the video again, and it looks like the notch is acting similar to how an iron bias control works.

In other words, the D2 is separating both targets, but since the trash target is much larger and producing a much stronger signal then the coin, then the D2 is being "biased" toward the much stronger trash signal. But, when the large trash target is notched out, the D2 realizes you don't want that trash target, so the D2 changes its "bias" toward the weaker coin signal, and then is able to produce the high ID.
 
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longbow62 said:
I'm not trying to throw cold water on the success you have had with the Deus II, but in your opinion would the Equinox have found the same number of coins? The only reason I ask is because so far I have not witnessed a target the DII can hit and the Equinox can't in the wild. I swing Nox 800. Buddy swings DII. We've compared I'm thinking in the hundreds of targets. So far like I said they both hit targets equally the same.
Click to expand...

I think that in many scenarios, they will both find the same targets. I *think* the D2 might have an edge on the Equinox in trash, but what I know (for me) is that the D2 is MUCH more pleasurable to use than the Equinox. I've been a Minelab guy since the early Sovereigns, and used Sovereigns extensively, as well as Explorers, CTX and Equinox. They work well but at the end of the day I still feel like there's gotta be "more". I find that "more" in the D2 because I can set it up much closer to the way *I* want it to be. Its much more comfortable to swing to me than the Equinox as well. I'm not a fanboy, but so far the D2 is the most enjoyable and successful machine I've used in my ~40 years of detecting. YMMV.
 
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