Photos (or walking your dog, or flying a kite) = Harmless. MD'ing = "theft". Right ?
NO.
No, no, no, no. What do you insist on continually saying this. I have never said this. Never.
And that would be "breaking laws". And yes, we can't have that. Right ? (I agree). Thus you too would be willing to keep and abide by all laws. Right ? Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.
I do my best.
Huh ? I thought we mutually agreed that md'ing = "theft" ?
I have agreed that it is theft if done on private property without permission. You’re the one insisting that all metal detecting is theft.
And don't think for a moment that this definition only applies to the corner lot in your suburb (ie.: private land, no matter how innocuous) . It also equally applies to everywhere you hunt. Even on public land.
I do not agree with this statement. Nor does my friend (the now infamous Lawyer!!). Nor does the Country Park Supervisor.
If you doubt me, then as I say: Just provide me with the names of the public land locations you hunt. Give me 20 minutes to make some phone calls, and I will be glad to clarify this for you.
I have provided you with those.
Aaaahhh, here's the clarification: You HAVE INDEED said that "md'ing = theft". But you apply this only to private land (where , yes, I agree).
For the most part, yes, I only apply it to private property. My application of “theft” could, however, include public lands, but doesn’t implicitly state as much.
But you deny that the definition applies equally to public land (where "detecting is allowed") , right ?
Correct. Which means your oversimplified characterization of me saying the “md’ing is theft” is just that…an oversimplification, and something I have actually never said.
Ok, then as I've repeatedly said: Provide me with a list of places you detect, and I'll make some phone calls on your behalf. Agreed ?
I did. Not exact addresses and locations, but I provided you with the general location(s) in which I detect. You can call which ever locations you feel like, I’m not doing all the work for you.
I like your style flies-only !!
I like yours too Tom_in_Ca. Can you imagine the two of us around a Thanksgiving Dinner table!! What a hoot…we’d probably end up having the whole table and all the food to ourselves!!
I too have done such a thing: Upon being booted from a park years ago (where there was no express/explicit rule) I contacted a lawyer friend of mine and tossed out some questions. Very interesting as it relates to our hobby !
Awesome.
Ok , as to what your lawyer experience here was, here's my inputs: As you know, it's entirely possible to subconsciously "steer" the answer you or I get from a lawyer, right ?
Perhaps. Of course, it’s also equally possible that “you” have done no such thing, agreed?
For example, I could talk to that exact same lawyer, and , depending on how I word the questions, I could come away with an entirely different answer/perspective. Right ?
That’s pretty much how Lawyers operate, so I will agree with this statement.
For example: The assumption (as intuitive as it may seem) that md'ing implicitly involves the "removing of objects" (that you take home), is not *exactly* true. As evidence of this, I can point you to many examples where md'ing is legal and allowed (heck, even "permits"). Yet fine print tells you to drop off all the objects at the park office before you leave.
Well, all I can say is that apparently it WAS intuitive that md’ing involves removing objects…because…well…because they stipulated that you had to drop off all the objects you found before you left. Seems pretty obvious to me that they knew you’d be digging stuff up, so they added the caveat that you couldn’t take them home. So in this case, it’s not the digging up of stuff that’s prohibited, it’s taking the objects home that’s prohibited. I’m OK with that, by the way, as long as it’s spelled out in the Rules and Regulations of the park in question.
Why ? Because they are park features that you are not allowed to remove.
My park has no such broadly written regulation. They list the items that cannot be removed. But I can see your point.
Yes, as crazy as that sounds, there HAS been many places where they do NOT see the two activities as one-&-the-same. Ie.: you can "detect", you just can't "take". Thus showing that they are not *necessarily* equivalent.
But they do see them as inherently linked, which is why they specifically stipulate that you cannot remove the objects that you find. I’m not saying whether or not that’s a good policy or a bad policy. I’m simply pointing out that they (the park) know that md’ing involves the removal of the objects that you find, so they feel the need to specifically state in their rules and regulations that while you can dig them up, you cannot take them from the park.
That’s why I’m of the opinion that if the park does not specifically prohibit removal from the park of objects found while metal detecting, then I feel that is completely legal to do so.
But let's just focus for a moment on locations with no express allowance or permit. And instead focus on places where it's silent on the subject. Ie.: MD'ing not mentioned either way. Not expressly allowed nor prohibited. Then in that case, would you say that prohibitions on harvest and remove then do, of necessity, disallow md'ing (ie.: theft) ? Right ?
Wow…that’s a lot of double negatives…let me see if I can sort this out in my brain. The way I understand what your asking is that you are stating that if metal detecting is not mentioned (i.e. neither pro nor con), I cannot remove objects from the park because the park Rules a Regulations contains wording to the effect that prohibits the harvest or removal of Park Property…correct?
If that is indeed your question, then my answer would be “It depends on the exact wording of those Rules and Regulations”. I’m not trying to avoid the question, but the question, as I understand it, is just too broad. For example, my park rules pretty much define what they mean by “Park Property”. Even if there was not specific section allowing for metal detecting, based on the wording in the sections dealing with removing Park Property, I would still be of the mindset that not only can I detect, but I could also take home what I have found.