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  #1  
Old 05-15-2021, 03:53 AM
Monte Monte is offline
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Default Simplex + users: What Disc. settings for the 4 Disc. modes?

I'm curious what Discrimination rejection preferences you Simplex + users typically hunt with. Both WHAT rejection segments you chose, and WHY you like that set-up.

I've been in a discussion with a couple of Simplex-using friends about settings and it has been interesting, so I thought I'd post a quetion to find out how others like to hunt.

Also, I m curious which of the four Discriminate mode you favor, in the order of preference? For urban Coin Hunting or for remote Relic Hunting sites, here are my preferences:

1st choice: Park 1 'mode' ... I enjoy the 3-Tone audio and reject only the first Discrimination segment.

2nd choice: Beach 'mode' ... I prefer the Non-VCO, 2-Tone audio and have no Discrimination segments selected.

3rd choice: Field 'mode' ... I like the VCO enhanced 2-Tone audio, at times, and have no Discrimination segments selected.

4th choice: Park 2 'mode' ... I virtually never use it so don't pay attention to my settings.

So far the majority of the places I hunt with the Simplex +, coins haven't been all that deep and I get very good in-the-field performance from Park 1 and Beach modes. In ares where I might get slightly better depth-of-detection I will use the Field mode which is just a bit deeper than the Beach mode.

Monte

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  #2  
Old 05-15-2021, 07:32 AM
gardinerdigger gardinerdigger is offline
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I use park 1 pretty much exclusively. I don't reject anything but keep the iron audio at 1 or 2 bars max. I don't relic hunt much and generally I'm searching for non ferrous targets.
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2021, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gardinerdigger: I use park 1 pretty much exclusively. I don't reject anything but keep the iron audio at 1 or 2 bars max. I don't relic hunt much and generally I'm searching for non ferrous targets.
'Thank You.' Like you, I mainly search for non-ferrous targets, with my emphasis on older coins, trade-tokens (my favorites), good jewelry and all sorts of 'uniqueries'. That's why I use low-to-no Discrimination in each Disc. mode, smaller to medium-size search coils, and I am very patient. I generally have my Iron Volume saved at '1' but if I'm in a noisy environment I might bump it up to '2' so I can hear it.

I enjoy a 3-Tone audio most of the time making Park 1 my most-used mode, but there are times when I am mainly encountering Iron Nails as the popular trash target when I opt for the Beach mode. I like the 2-Tone audio w/o VCO, and the high-tone pitch is very pleasant and responsive.

Monte

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  #4  
Old 05-15-2021, 08:58 AM
John Madill John Madill is offline
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I am pretty new to the Simplex+. My other detector lets me set up a custom mode, the Simplex doesn't have this feature.

So i usually search in Park 1. But i set up Park 2 to ignore anything under 60 so it is mostly looking for coins. I use this in especially trashy areas.

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  #5  
Old 05-15-2021, 02:07 PM
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I end up using Park 1 mostly. I switch it to another mode once or twice per hunt just to see what Park 1 may have missed. Around me is a bumper crop of 1970's aluminum cans for miles around.

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  #6  
Old 05-15-2021, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Metal Pig: I end up using Park 2 mostly. I switch it up once or twice per hunt just to see what Park 2 may have missed. Around me is a bumper crop of 1970's aluminum cans for miles around.
I used 'Park' mode when the first Simplex + models came out. It worked, but ....

After the 2.77 update I enjoyed have the Park 1 mode (Park 2 now being the 'original' Park mode) because the overall performance is better, the depth-of-detection is better, and the numeric VDI read-out for US Coins is definitely better.

Fortunately, for me, I seldom work urban locations that have a lot o chopped-up aluminum can pieces. Sorry you have to deal with that.

Monte

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  #7  
Old 05-15-2021, 05:38 PM
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I run mine wide open. It seems to clip the audio if I don't.
I use Park 1 or 2.

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  #8  
Old 05-15-2021, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by HistoryHippy View post
I run mine wide open. It seems to clip the audio if I don't.
I use Park 1 or 2.
Same here! The numbers shall let you know!

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  #9  
Old 05-15-2021, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HistoryHippy: I run mine wide open. It seems to clip the audio if I don't.
I use Park 1 or 2.
Interesting. The only time I experienced 'clipping' was after it came out I was sweeping too fast with the stock coil.

I do not experience any clipping with a slow and methodocal sweep speed.

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  #10  
Old 05-16-2021, 05:52 AM
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I mostly relic hunt with coins second on my list of finds. So I use zero discrimination in all four modes. Iron at 2.

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  #11  
Old 05-17-2021, 01:25 AM
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Yeah to my ears it cuts the audio on say a coin. I tried to make a custom coin program. Notching out iron up to nickles and everything else up to like 65 doing air test on coins. Out in the real world in the dirt with say a dime a few inches deep it didn't sound round it sounded square. If you can imagine that.
It made deep iron sound like coins. I couldn't really tell. I guess I'm used to the grunt off of the side of the coil.

Detecto the numbers give you an idea but the sound is what makes me dig.

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  #12  
Old 05-18-2021, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by HistoryHippy: Yeah to my ears it cuts the audio on say a coin. I tried to make a custom coin program. Notching out iron up to nickles and everything else up to like 65 doing air test on coins. Out in the real world in the dirt with say a dime a few inches deep it didn't sound round it sounded square. If you can imagine that.
The only time I have heard any 'cutting' or 'clipping' with a Simplex + was with my original model, and when I had the Disc. set higher and was in a very trashy environment. Most of the time coins produce a very good audio response for me, w/o 'clipping', when I use '0' or only '1' Disc. segment.


Originally Posted by HistoryHippy: It made deep iron sound like coins. I couldn't really tell. I guess I'm used to the grunt off of the side of the coil.
Some Iron, due to the conductivity level, the depth or orientation, or the shape because it was 'Man-Made and Man-Shaped, can cause problems and produce an up-scale or higher VDI read-out . But I've been using EPR techniques since the mid-to latter '70s and instructing how to 'classify' a lot of ferrous debris. When too deep, this technique doesn't work. https://www.ahrps.org/forums/read.ph...4255#msg-24255


Originally Posted by HistoryHippy: Detecto the numbers give you an idea but the sound is what makes me dig.
Yep, I rely on the audio the majority of the time.

Monte

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  #13  
Old 05-19-2021, 05:15 AM
jmaclen jmaclen is offline
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Originally Posted by Monte View post
I'm curious what Discrimination rejection preferences you Simplex + users typically hunt with. Both WHAT rejection segments you chose, and WHY you like that set-up.

I've been in a discussion with a couple of Simplex-using friends about settings and it has been interesting, so I thought I'd post a quetion to find out how others like to hunt.

Also, I m curious which of the four Discriminate mode you favor, in the order of preference? For urban Coin Hunting or for remote Relic Hunting sites, here are my preferences:

1st choice: Park 1 'mode' ... I enjoy the 3-Tone audio and reject only the first Discrimination segment.

2nd choice: Beach 'mode' ... I prefer the Non-VCO, 2-Tone audio and have no Discrimination segments selected.

3rd choice: Field 'mode' ... I like the VCO enhanced 2-Tone audio, at times, and have no Discrimination segments selected.

4th choice: Park 2 'mode' ... I virtually never use it so don't pay attention to my settings.

So far the majority of the places I hunt with the Simplex +, coins haven't been all that deep and I get very good in-the-field performance from Park 1 and Beach modes. In ares where I might get slightly better depth-of-detection I will use the Field mode which is just a bit deeper than the Beach mode.

Monte
Monte,

I run my software version 2.77 Simplex (came with the excellent, free 9.5"X5" coil but the extremely noisy and unpleasant version 2.78 software....) basically the same way as you. I also rarely use Park 2. I do really like the All Metal mode with threshold turned down to 5 or so.

I am extremely impressed with version 2.77 Park 1. I do hunt in some heavily modern aluminum trashed parks that also have moderate to high iron mineralization. I am relieved to find that Park 1 will accurately identify low to mid conductor targets at these parks down to around 4" depth which includes US nickels, lead, brass and my favorite....gold jewelry. I don't mind digging a 4" to 8" deep gold ring even when the detector I'm using incorrectly tells me it is a high conductor by its tones and numbers. I do mind digging worthless, time and stamina consuming aluminum trash at 4" to 8" depth because my detector told me it was a high conductor. That's why I use the Equinox and Vanquish a lot. They usually get those targets identified correctly. So far, the inexpensive Simplex using Park 1 with version 2.77 is giving me plenty of accurate information about medium depth low to mid conductors too. That is pretty impressive and the Simplex so far, has better low to mid conductivity accuracy in my soil conditions than any other Nokta Makro single frequency detector I have used (which is most of them) and any other single frequency detector of any brand that I have used including ones that cost 4 times as much as the Simplex.
What an amazing detector.

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  #14  
Old 05-19-2021, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jmaclen: Monte,

I run my software version 2.77 Simplex .... basically the same way as you. I also rarely use Park 2. I do really like the All Metal mode with threshold turned down to 5 or so.
Yes, indeed, the 2.77 version software is all that I use in my Simplex +, and the excellent, well-balanced 5X9 DD coil, and I also make use of the Threshold-based All Metal mode. In the Disc. mode, as I stated in a previous post, I mainly use Par1 w/'1' notch rejected, then Beach w/'0' Disc. and Field w/'0' Disc. in that order.

Originally Posted by jmaclen: I am extremely impressed with version 2.77 Park 1. I do hunt in some heavily modern aluminum trashed parks that also have moderate to high iron mineralization. I am relieved to find that Park 1 will accurately identify low to mid conductor targets at these parks down to around 4" depth which includes US nickels, lead, brass and my favorite....gold jewelry. I don't mind digging a 4" to 8" deep gold ring even when the detector I'm using incorrectly tells me it is a high conductor by its tones and numbers.
Yes, the Park 1 in the Simplex + has been working quite well for me. I have lived and hunted in exceptionally high iron mineralized sites for the bulk of my 56 years of hunting, and now, relocating to West Central Texas is going to limit those ground mineral frustrations with all of the much lower mineralized challenges to deal with .... until I travel to a more difficult location. I mainly look for older Coins and Trade Tokens, and now, with so many freshwater sites around, I am going to start searching for some good gold and silver jewelry locations.

Originally Posted by jmaclen: I do mind digging worthless, time and stamina consuming aluminum trash at 4" to 8" depth because my detector told me it was a high conductor. That's why I use the Equinox and Vanquish a lot. They usually get those targets identified correctly.
I've worked a few places before I moved to compare the Vanquish 540 w/5X6 DD against both my Simplex + w/5X9 and Apex w/5X8 and still have very functional VDI read-outs and confirming audio ID on good targets down to the 5" to 7" range, and have very little problems with high-reading Iron debris.

I also do NOT enjoy digging a lot of worthless chopped-up aluminum shards, but I also try to avoid some of the parks that have mowed-up beverage cans to annoy me. Maybe I have been fortunate, but it is also because I do not search a lot of parks with that type of litter.

Originally Posted by jmaclen: So far, the inexpensive Simplex using Park 1 with version 2.77 is giving me plenty of accurate information about medium depth low to mid conductors too. That is pretty impressive and the Simplex so far, has better low to mid conductivity accuracy in my soil conditions than any other Nokta Makro single frequency detector I have used (which is most of them) and any other single frequency detector of any brand that I have used including ones that cost 4 times as much as the Simplex.
What an amazing detector.
I used my discontinued Nokta Relic specifically for serious Iron-littered Relic Hunting needs, and the rsst of my detector outfit is 2 Tesoro's, the Simplex + and 3 Garrett Apex devices with assigned search coils. All of these are in the lower to mid-priced range, and all of them provide very satisfactory in-the-field performance. None of the higher-cost detectors are needed, for me, to handle the detecting I am able to enjoy.

Now, to find some good jewelry-producing fresh-water locations so the Simplex + can get more beach and wading time in.

Monte

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  #15  
Old 05-23-2021, 10:33 PM
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Park 1
Field
Park 2
Beach

Generally in that order for me, Monte.

I just swapped the Simplex out for my Gold Kruzer, by the way...meaning that I'm keeping the GK closer at hand. I've been running the Simplex foremost for about a month now amd I'm really just not as impressed with the yield as I am with my Bandito and GK. I'm not quite ready to sell it just yet, but its crossed my mind. Ive thought about maybe getting a Makro Multi instead since it will share components and UI similarities with the GK. I'll give it some more time...

I was impressed with how the GK does way more than its marketed niche as a fine jewelry and nugget finder. To date it has found way more coins and more interesting relics than the Simplex. Today I immmediately picked up a quarter, a nickel and a few pennies in a field where the Simplex found stuff mostly on the junk spectrum. Actually, at that location my first finds with the Simplex were two broken old mason jars (via their metal rings), but the rest was junk. That was what made me bring the GK today and right away the finds were looking brighter. I'll have to bring the Bandito along to that spot soon just to see if it turns up any surprises. The mason jars were about 75 - 100ft apart, about 5" down, and identical in design. I think this park must have had a farm and farm house at one time. I was hunting near a level plateau parking area and I think there was probably some structure right there quite awhile ago. Its amazing that an old house or barn could have been totally erased 50 or 60 years ago for a park after already sitting in ruins for a sizable chunk of the 20th century. I enjoy doing timeline sleuthing like that. There is absolutely no indication any structure was ever there.

Approximate distance between two mason jars (red, Simplex) and clad coins (blue, GK, two days later). The area was fairly well covered by both detectors but the GK found the coins:
Attached Images
 

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  #16  
Old 05-24-2021, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Metal Pig:
Park 1
Field
Park 3
Beach

Generally in that order for me, Monte.
Park 1 is definitely my most-used Disc. mode on the Simplex +. Probably 75% of my use with that model is in Park 1. But when I want 2-Tone audio I am usually dealing with a modest amount of trash and mainly Iron Nails. For that, while I like the Field mode, and it can get slightly better depth-of-detection, I favor the Beach mode because it lacks the VCO Audio and has a more pleasant audio Tone, at least for me. No Iron Audio Volume, but I can live with that.


Originally Posted by Metal Pig: I just swapped the Simplex out for my Gold Kruzer, by the way...meaning that I'm keeping the GK closer at hand. I've been running the Simplex foremost for about a month now amd I'm really just not as impressed with the yield as I am with my Bandito and GK.
I like a lot of different makes and models, but none of them would bring me to eliminate my two favorite Tesoro models with their 6" Concentric coils. They continue to work well and find stuff.


Originally Posted by Metal Pig: I'm not quite ready to sell it just yet, but its crossed my mind. Ive thought about maybe getting a Makro Multi instead since it will share components and UI similarities with the GK. I'll give it some more time...
The Nokta / Makro SMF hasn't been released yet, but making use of 2 or more frequencies tells me it isn't going to be compatible with any of the Single-Frequency model search coils. That would eliminate compatibility with the Gold Kruzer.


Originally Posted by Metal Pig: I was impressed with how the GK does way more than its marketed niche as a fine jewelry and nugget finder. To date it has found way more coins and more interesting relics than the Simplex.
I found that to be true, also, with the Gold Racer models at 56 kHz. Great for nugget hunting or low-conductive gold jewelry, but they still held its own against all the other 'Nugget Hunting' models I compared it against.


Originally Posted by Metal Pig: Today I immmediately picked up a quarter, a nickel and a few pennies in a field where the Simplex found stuff mostly on the junk spectrum.
That can happen any time and any where when you just happen to take the coil over a target, properly centered and from the best sweep direction. That makes it look like detector B is better than detector A. Happens all the time and the only way to know the difference is to have different models at the site and compare them all, side-by-side, prior to any recovery effort.


Originally Posted by Metal Pig: I'll have to bring the Bandito along to that spot soon just to see if it turns up any surprises.
I'm sure something will be found in the 'good' category.

Monte

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  #17  
Old 05-25-2021, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Monte View post
Park 1 is definitely my most-used Disc. mode on the Simplex +. Probably 75% of my use with that model is in Park 1. But when I want 2-Tone audio I am usually dealing with a modest amount of trash and mainly Iron Nails. For that, while I like the Field mode, and it can get slightly better depth-of-detection, I favor the Beach mode because it lacks the VCO Audio and has a more pleasant audio Tone, at least for me. No Iron Audio Volume, but I can live with that.


I like a lot of different makes and models, but none of them would bring me to eliminate my two favorite Tesoro models with their 6" Concentric coils. They continue to work well and find stuff.


The Nokta / Makro SMF hasn't been released yet, but making use of 2 or more frequencies tells me it isn't going to be compatible with any of the Single-Frequency model search coils. That would eliminate compatibility with the Gold Kruzer.


I found that to be true, also, with the Gold Racer models at 56 kHz. Great for nugget hunting or low-conductive gold jewelry, but they still held its own against all the other 'Nugget Hunting' models I compared it against.


That can happen any time and any where when you just happen to take the coil over a target, properly centered and from the best sweep direction. That makes it look like detector B is better than detector A. Happens all the time and the only way to know the difference is to have different models at the site and compare them all, side-by-side, prior to any recovery effort.


I'm sure something will be found in the 'good' category.

Monte
I'm not sure I'll be able to afford the SMF unless it's on par with, say, Vanquish 440 or 540. I was actually talking about Makro Multi Kruzer (not simultaneous). As far as I know it shares charging cables and headphone adapters with the Gold Kruzer AND Simplex. That would be a real plus having three machines sharing those critical things.

Regarding what I said about my GK picking up more coins than my other detectors, it seemed to do that at one or two other sites as well. It wasn't just this one park. I was using the GK yesterday at a very trashy site and it did very well. It seemed to hit on more relicky things made with finer metals, and not get tied up with lots of garbage. The Gold Kruzer seems to like brass, especially bullet casings. Some people may consider that junk, but when I found a .30-40 Krag bullet casing likely from the 1920's in my front yard, that was a good a sign as it was only 5" down. It was actually stamped ".30 USA" which was what they called that round back then. That convinced me I was wrong about all the coins being really deep. My yard hasn't yielded many coins at all. Maybe about 8, and all clad near the road not near the house.

I only bought my first Tesoro this year, but like you I think Tesoro detectors are going to be a mainstay in my arsenal for awhile. I really like how they work although I know the company had several phases of R&D, some better some worse.

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  #18  
Old 05-26-2021, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Metal Pig:
I'm not sure I'll be able to afford the SMF unless it's on par with, say, Vanquish 440 or 540.
I bought the Vanquish 540 Pro Pack right after the release and, generally, I liked the V-540 for most typical hunting needs. It just fell short for me when I encountered a cluster or clump of Non-Ferrous Coins, and also when I hunted some of the very heavily-littered old sites with abundant Iron Nails and other ferrous debris.

I do not think Nokta / Makro will enter the mid-priced SFM range, but will offer a top-end, higher-dollar model very competitive produce.

I do like a SMF 'concept' for some applications, but they are not perfect. I like to have the Selectable Single-Frequency option, and I have that with the Garrett Apex. Better still, my Apex devices with their 5X8 'Ripper' or 5" NEL DD coils, and Nokta / Makro Simplex + w/5X9 DD, and Nokta FORS Relic w/5" DD and both of my Tesoro's w/6" Concentric coils will ALL out-perform the V-540 w/5X8 DD on a few Iron Nil 'tests' and generally even the Equinox 800.

Originally Posted by Metal Pig:
I was actually talking about Makro Multi Kruzer (not simultaneous). As far as I know it shares charging cables and headphone adapters with the Gold Kruzer AND Simplex. That would be a real plus having three machines sharing those critical things.
Yes, sharing some 'componenets' like thsat is a good thing.

Originally Posted by Metal Pig:
Regarding what I said about my GK picking up more coins than my other detectors, it seemed to do that at one or two other sites as well. --- It seemed to hit on more relicky things made with finer metals, and not get tied up with lots of garbage. The Gold Kruzer seems to like brass, especially bullet casings. --- That convinced me I was wrong about all the coins being really deep. My yard hasn't yielded many coins at all. Maybe about 8, and all clad near the road not near the house.
The higher operating frequency of the Gold Kruzer, like the higher frequency of the Gold Racer, can surprise a lot of people. I enjoyed the Gold Racer in a few older Relic Hunting sites as it did unmask some keepers pretty well.

Originally Posted by Metal Pig:
I only bought my first Tesoro this year, but like you I think Tesoro detectors are going to be a mainstay in my arsenal for awhile. I really like how they work although I know the company had several phases of R&D, some better some worse.
If you have a good-working analog Tesoro, keep it handy with the best coil for your needs. They are very versatile performers.

Monte

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  #19  
Old 05-26-2021, 05:09 PM
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Took the Simplex+ with the SP24 (9.5x5) coil) out today to hit some tot lots. Also took a couple of earrings I have found with my AT Pro along for testing. Started out with the Park 1 and first target segment only blocked, and could not pick up one of the earrings at all, and the other clipped to a point I would not have recovered it. The first earring VDI was 03, and the second VDI was 04. HUM? I went to all open target segments and turned the Iron Volume to 3 and got a good strong signal on both. Also got a VDI of 04 on this necklace I found. Here is a picture of the test earrings and necklace I would have missed with the first target segment blocked. Also a picture of my finds at the volleyball court.
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Old 05-26-2021, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Monte View post
I bought the Vanquish 540 Pro Pack right after the release and, generally, I liked the V-540 for most typical hunting needs. It just fell short for me when I encountered a cluster or clump of Non-Ferrous Coins, and also when I hunted some of the very heavily-littered old sites with abundant Iron Nails and other ferrous debris.

I do not think Nokta / Makro will enter the mid-priced SFM range, but will offer a top-end, higher-dollar model very competitive produce.

I do like a SMF 'concept' for some applications, but they are not perfect. I like to have the Selectable Single-Frequency option, and I have that with the Garrett Apex. Better still, my Apex devices with their 5X8 'Ripper' or 5" NEL DD coils, and Nokta / Makro Simplex + w/5X9 DD, and Nokta FORS Relic w/5" DD and both of my Tesoro's w/6" Concentric coils will ALL out-perform the V-540 w/5X8 DD on a few Iron Nil 'tests' and generally even the Equinox 800.

Yes, sharing some 'componenets' like thsat is a good thing.

The higher operating frequency of the Gold Kruzer, like the higher frequency of the Gold Racer, can surprise a lot of people. I enjoyed the Gold Racer in a few older Relic Hunting sites as it did unmask some keepers pretty well.

If you have a good-working analog Tesoro, keep it handy with the best coil for your needs. They are very versatile performers.

Monte
To emphasize what I said about my GK earlier, my only spill (7!) found this year was with the GK. In fact, GK has found more coins per use than any of my other detectors. I also am surprised at how little junk I pick up overall. In keeping with it's "small and fine metal" capabilities, just 2hrs ago I went to the site of the astronomical observatory in the county park that I hit sometimes. I immediately dug up a small, heavy adjustment screw, fairly obviously from some type of optical device. This was about 2 - 4" down, hard to tell because it got churned up. Better metal than your average screw. It picked it right up and I knew it was no bottle cap. I think it rang around 65. This wasn't the first optical component I found there. Once I found a rather high-end lens for a telescope or camera up there too.

When I started out using the GK I used itin Micro mode, which is the most talky with the most tones. I also found the 7-coin spill with that. Since then I've "toned" it down a bit...and use Fast Mode alot, which is what some other frequent user also recommends. Occasionally I use Boost mode, but usually Fast mode, and I use the little 4" x 7.5" oval coil mostly. I may switch to the larger one and turn down the sensitivity and see if that opens up the channel so to speak. Right now, in current config, the GK has obvious merit as a formidable cherry picker. Maybe I need to widen the net a bit though...

I also prefer the idea of using frequencies only one at a time. I'm in no hurry to get an SMF, really. I'm looking at Multi Kruzer, Anfibio, Apex as candidates for my next buy. Apex seems the best priced of the three. How would you rate it compared to the other two?

If had the money, I'd very likely be looking something like a Fors CORE.

How do you feel about the "clean sweep" coil on the Bandido?

And by the way, I was thinking about starting a >20khz thread since most SMF detectors seem to cut off around there. How do you think that would fly? Not too many posts or threads about higher frequency machines. They seem to do much better than some ads and posts would have you believe.

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