People complaining about my digger

KOB · Feb 27, 2021

Saker said:
Most folks that come up to me are just interested in what I am doing and ask questions about the hobby. I really enjoy it and have no problem talking to people about it. When anyone does try to give me a hard time I just stare at them, make myself look mad, and growl until they leave. It works every time!

Absolutely perfect ! Most people with a brain will stand back and watch a bit if you have a shovel. Covering your hole and not making a mess in a park is the key. Big shovel or little trowel , no difference. Perception or not. MOST people that is. Not much different watching to see if someone picks up their dog poop in a park. Mad dog stare down ? These busy bodies are getting off easy....

But I digress to one of my favorite movies of all time. Mr.Brooks...Where Kevin Costner makes Dane Cook dig his own grave in the cemetery. Then swings that shovel at his neck as he falls in.....

Tom_in_CA · Feb 27, 2021

GKL said:
I just found and added the official document to my original post, refresh the page and you'll see the link I just added.

thanx. Then as I said, the moment any such (rare) city , that has ever dreamed up a "permit", then it has the following chain reaction: Since the notion of "permits" conjurs up glossy-eyed images of being able to 'detect nilly willy', and since this instills fears of "Oh no, I wonder if cities in my area have-such-a-thing", then ... guess what newbies rush to do ? You guessed it : Show up at city halls all over the USA asking "Is there a permit ?".

And I had to chuckle at the "no deeper than 8" deep" mandate. Ok, and for sure the md'rs there carry a ruler to measure, and stop (despite their probe screaming at that the 8" mark of depth). Right ? And for sure there's city officials, armed with rulers, that come out to make sure that md'r haven't dug to 8.5" deep. Eh ? :laughing:

GKL · Feb 27, 2021

Tom_in_CA said:
thanx. Then as I said, the moment any such (rare) city , that has ever dreamed up a "permit", then it has the following chain reaction: Since the notion of "permits" conjurs up glossy-eyed images of being able to 'detect nilly willy', and since this instills fears of "Oh no, I wonder if cities in my area have-such-a-thing", then ... guess what newbies rush to do ? You guessed it : Show up at city halls all over the USA asking "Is there a permit ?".

And I had to chuckle at the "no deeper than 8" deep" mandate. Ok, and for sure the md'rs there carry a ruler to measure, and stop (despite their probe screaming at that the 8" mark of depth). Right ? And for sure there's city officials, armed with rulers, that come out to make sure that md'r haven't dug to 8.5" deep. Eh ?

.....I understand there always seem to be some that might "upset the apple cart" by asking officials without first simply just researching online to see if something is specifically prohibited in an area :lol:

It seems like the Maryland/Baltimore permit that allows for detecting and using shovels specifically designed for detecting has been in effect for a while so while it might not prevent any bad digging from happening it seems like the officials are satisfied enough to continue allowing it.

http://bcrp.baltimorecity.gov/sites/default/files/Metal%20Detecting%20Applications%202017.pdf

This other quote from that official document shows the officials are aware there might be some individuals that might leave bad digs but instead of simply revoking it for everyone they ask the responsible detectorists to repair such digs when found:

......quote from that document:

".......It is requested that detectorists repair poorly repaired holes left behind by uneducated or careless individuals. This effort will help protect the privilege of metal detecting in Baltimore City Parks......"
(end of quote)

......it's encouraging to know there are officials who don't want to automatically prohibit something simply because of the few individuals who might leave bad digs.

metaladdict · Feb 27, 2021

Guys, Don't use long handled shovels unless it's a farmers field or the woods or a beach please.
Just trying to save our hobby here. :yes:

Tom_in_CA · Feb 27, 2021

GKL said:
..... it seems like the officials are satisfied enough to continue allowing it......

Don't forget, that prior to the genius idea to have a "permit", that it wasn't disallowed prior to that, I'm assuming. Ie.: if it was silent on-the-subject before that (not mentioned either way as specifically/expressly prohibited), then presto, it was "allowed" prior to the permit, as well. Right ? So a permit didn't fix anything, if that was the case. See ?

GKL said:
..... they ask the responsible detectorists to repair such digs .... the few individuals who might leave bad digs.

And again, this didn't need a new "rule" or "permit" to make that legal or illegal. Because I'll bet you that prior to any such md'ing permit there, in this particular locale, that there was ALREADY verbiage that disallowed "alter", "deface", "destruction", etc.... So again: This is nothing that the permit "fixed". See ?

IDXMonster · Feb 27, 2021

Has someone actually come up to you and said something about your shovel? Or are you simply thinking that they don’t like your shovel? I gave up caring what people think a long time ago. You know what they say about a-holes and opinions...I just don’t care. Don’t go skulking around like a guilty dog, THAT will get you noticed more than anything. OWN that place! Smile big, direct eye contact and wave, continue with business. It’s takes some people time to be comfortable hunting in public places, and the more you do it the more you’ll become just another unthreatening fixture in said public places. Just like that tree, that bush, that person who walks their dog every day...

Beachhunter · Feb 27, 2021

Here’s an option that works great to minimize hole size and lawn damage. A gasket scraper. I rounded the corner edges so as not to damage the find.

925Bill · Feb 27, 2021

As a side benefit..the vest sometimes appears as official uniform-ish to a passerby. Like you are supposed to be there.

Tom_in_CA · Feb 27, 2021

IDXMonster said:
...OWN that place!. ..

There's some truth to this, psychologically speaking . 99% of any scrutiny that we md'rs receive (in sketchy nice-manicured turf), is probably because WE OURSELVES display the persona of "... Oh no, does he see me..." skittishness. And when people passing by see that body language, they are prone to think "Gee, what's he doing, and gee is that allowed, or "gee, he might leave a hole", blah blah. When in fact, had it not been for your evasive behavior, they might not have given 2 sh#ts about you.

Example : When I was about 22-ish, there was a guy in our circle of friends, who was still only 19 or 20 (not 21 yrs. old yet, which is the age-at which you can enter bars, buy beer, etc... in CA). And the young fellow boasted to the rest of us : "I can get into any bar in town".

And since I knew he wasn't 21 yet (nor looked older than 21), I challenged him, and tried to call his bluff. But he persisted in his claim. So I told him "Oh, then you must have a fake ID, right ?" (that was a popular tactic with kids back when I was in high school). But he insisted that he didn't have a fake ID, and could get into any bar in town. I challenged him that the "bouncers will toss you out on your ear, and card you at the door, etc...". But he persisted in his claim that he's never carded, and goes into any bar he wants to.

When I realized he was serious, I took the bait and said "How do you do it then ?". His answer was simple : He walks right up to the bouncer at the door to the bar, shakes his hand, with a million dollar smile, and says "Hi, how ya doing ? !", and walks right in. He was never carded ! Because, you see, he'd figured out that the only people that the bouncers ever card, are people trying to avoid eye-contact, cutting a wide berth, acting evasive, etc..... But if you walk right up and shake their hand (act like you own the place), you're never carded !

MD'ing is the same way , for a lot of places : The ONLY reason we md'rs receive scrutiny, is that we're acting in an evasive manner. Locking eyes with any passing park worker, LEO car that passes by the street, locking eyes with anyone who stops to gawk, etc.... Then sure as sh*t, someone's gonna think "gee, what's that guy doing ?". It's as if we can be our own worst enemy, eh ?

IDXMonster · Feb 27, 2021

Tom_in_CA said:
There's some truth to this, psychologically speaking . 99% of any scrutiny that we md'rs receive (in sketchy nice-manicured turf), is probably because WE OURSELVES display the persona of "... Oh no, does he see me..." skittishness. And when people passing by see that body language, they are prone to think "Gee, what's he doing, and gee is that allowed, or "gee, he might leave a hole", blah blah. When in fact, had it not been for your evasive behavior, they might not have given 2 sh#ts about you.

Example : When I was about 22-ish, there was a guy in our circle of friends, who was still only 19 or 20 (not 21 yrs. old yet, which is the age-at which you can enter bars, buy beer, etc... in CA). And the young fellow boasted to the rest of us : "I can get into any bar in town".

And since I knew he wasn't 21 yet (nor looked older than 21), I challenged him, and tried to call his bluff. But he persisted in his claim. So I told him "Oh, then you must have a fake ID, right ?" (that was a popular tactic with kids back when I was in high school). But he insisted that he didn't have a fake ID, and could get into any bar in town. I challenged him that the "bouncers will toss you out on your ear, and card you at the door, etc...". But he persisted in his claim that he's never carded, and goes into any bar he wants to.

When I realized he was serious, I took the bait and said "How do you do it then ?". His answer was simple : He walks right up to the bouncer at the door to the bar, shakes his hand, with a million dollar smile, and says "Hi, how ya doing ? !", and walks right in. He was never carded ! Because, you see, he'd figured out that the only people that the bouncers ever card, are people trying to avoid eye-contact, cutting a wide berth, acting evasive, etc..... But if you walk right up and shake their hand (act like you own the place), you're never carded !

MD'ing is the same way , for a lot of places : The ONLY reason we md'rs receive scrutiny, is that we're acting in an evasive manner. Locking eyes with any passing park worker, LEO car that passes by the street, locking eyes with anyone who stops to gawk, etc.... Then sure as sh*t, someone's gonna think "gee, what's that guy doing ?". It's as if we can be our own worst enemy, eh ?

That’s exactly what I’m getting at Tom, great example with the bouncers! Of course...if there are “hard and fast” rules about not detecting or signage in the park....you’re gonna get heat, so avoid those! But DO NOT duck behind a bush or look at someone and then turn away right away....I will even move TOWARD someone at times if I sense that it is going to achieve the result I want. We have been hammered over time with the notion that somehow what we are doing is inherently “wrong”....with all sorts of negative connotations attached to the hobby....and we therefore sometimes act “guilty” with furtive glances and evasive action without even knowing it because of “mental conditioning”...which makes us look even MORE “guilty”...it’s a self-licking ice cream cone. Knowing how to deal with it only comes with time and those experiences.

davidlhyde63366 · Feb 27, 2021

safety vest

GKL said:
I wear a reflective vest when detecting, partly to be safe the times I might get close to where cars might drive by, but also to show I'm not trying to sneak around unseen since I know I am doing nothing wrong, it also has the added benefit of maybe having local people think I am a worker doing something and not give me a second thought, but if asked I would be honest and not say I'm a worker. (So far I have not had any negative looks or remarks about my detecting and using a Sampson Lesche shovel)
View attachment 480401

best camo looking like you belong there. :laughing:

Stiffwrists · Feb 27, 2021

I can't imagine hunting an old park for deep silver without a long handle shovel. I don't think the people who get all upset about metal detecting care what equipment you use. Some will have a problem regardless. A nicely cut plug and clean up are a must.

I do avoid parks in the high heat of summer. The sod doesn't recover as well.

Tom_in_CA · Feb 27, 2021

Stiffwrists said:
I can't imagine hunting an old park for deep silver without a long handle shovel....

It's true that a full-size shovel (or long handled lesche) can often time make LESS mess than someone trying to reach an 8" deep coin with a screwdriver or short-handled lesche.

As for persons who might be "all upset...", my solution, when it comes to that, in nicely manicured turf, is simple: Hunt at night, in the dark, when those type people aren't around. So peaceful. So serene.

Huckleberry · Feb 27, 2021

stursmad said:
I've made my thoughts known before on this subject, but here they are again in a nutshell. I believe long handled shovels and making/leaving a mess are the top two things that will lead to public areas being banned to metal detecting. Can't say I didn't warn you.

That is SPOT-ON! Public perception is key. it doesn't matter how fine a plug you can make with a shovel, the perception of someone with a shovel invokes visions of holes and messes. In the end, mine or your perception of how fine a job was done on a target retrieval is immaterial, John Q Public or "lookie lou" or maintenance staff, ect. sees someone with a shovel in a public place, and their perceived reality of what we do becomes set in their minds, and nothing you or I can change that perception once their mind is made up!

There are many tools in the detectorist toolbox. Sure, use a shovel in the woods, in plowed fields, or in your own yard for that matter. But discretion is the better part of valor. Use a hand trowel or probe in public places.

When public areas become closed to detecting, our opinions do not change the closed status. It's still off limits! Leaving a site in as good or better condition than it was before you got there is important. That gives an impression of metal detecting. Likewise, how we conduct ourselves while detecting, as well as what tools we are using gives the public an impression of metal detecting.

So, in the end, dig with what you will, you're going to anyway, no matter what is discussed here. But when an area becomes closed to detecting, you will have no one to blame but yourself. So enjoy the fruits of your labors!

KOB · Feb 28, 2021

Huckleberry said:
That is SPOT-ON! Public perception is key. it doesn't matter how fine a plug you can make with a shovel, the perception of someone with a shovel invokes visions of holes and messes. In the end, mine or your perception of how fine a job was done on a target retrieval is immaterial, John Q Public or "lookie lou" or maintenance staff, ect. sees someone with a shovel in a public place, and their perceived reality of what we do becomes set in their minds, and nothing you or I can change that perception once their mind is made up!

There are many tools in the detectorist toolbox. Sure, use a shovel in the woods, in plowed fields, or in your own yard for that matter. But discretion is the better part of valor. Use a hand trowel or probe in public places.

When public areas become closed to detecting, our opinions do not change the closed status. It's still off limits! Leaving a site in as good or better condition than it was before you got there is important. That gives an impression of metal detecting. Likewise, how we conduct ourselves while detecting, as well as what tools we are using gives the public an impression of metal detecting.

So, in the end, dig with what you will, you're going to anyway, no matter what is discussed here. But when an area becomes closed to detecting, you will have no one to blame but yourself. So enjoy the fruits of your labors!

Public perception is thrown out the window for MOST NORMAL people who take 2 minutes to watch you dig and fill a hole. Would they be upset if you had a 3' shovel and left the perfect plug with no mess ? Or would they be upset if you used a hand trowel and left a nightmare ?

Beachhunter · Feb 28, 2021

I wonder how many park “bans” were initiated as a results of animals flipping open your plugs looking for grubs. Perception is definitely key here.

T-Man · Feb 28, 2021

Carry a large shovel and use a bodybag for trash and drag it behind you from plug to plug, make sure it looks heavy, stuff it with dead leaves if you need to. I'd dare someone to question you :laughing:

Tom_in_CA · Feb 28, 2021

Beachhunter said:
I wonder how many park “bans” were initiated as a results of animals flipping open your plugs looking for grubs....

My guess is that this theory of origin accounts for none of any "bans". Even sloppy holes (although, I'm not advocating for sloppy holes). Here's why I don't think "holes" or "animals that open back up holes" account for any bans :

Since md'ing is our hobby, then, naturally, we md'rs will be quick to spot a scar or a hole or a blemish in park turf. And since md'ing is our hobby, we are quick to spot someone md'ing, when we're driving down the road. But believe it or not, the average person (to which this is not their hobby) simply doesn't notice or register such things.

Ie.: No one is going through the parks, staring at the ground/turf, and thinking "gee, I wonder if there's any plugs out here today, and gee, I guess an md'r did that, blah blah". I venture to suggest that they simply don't register. And the only reason WE md'rs register it, is because it's our hobby. So we "project" that everyone else registers it also.

For example, when I first met my wife-to-be, at a certain point, I told her about my hobby of detecting. And she said that she'd never seen anyone doing that before. And if we're driving around, I'll spot someone md'ing off-in-the-distance, while she never even notices them (I have to point it out to her).

It's kind of like macrame or needle-point: To enthusiasts of that hobby, they'll tune in to Youtube videos, TV shows, shop in fabric stores, etc... And if they spot a "glaring error" on a needlepoint design, they'll assume that everyone else is equally aghast at it. When .... truth be told, you and I could care less about macrame or needle-point, and don't notice the error in the stitching (nor were we even looking, etc....).

So too is it with md'ing and holes. In psychology, this thinking that others see and think as we see/think, is known as "projection".

Huckleberry · Feb 28, 2021

Metal detecto said:
I know, every one metal detecting says that you need to cut the plug nicely, make a hinge, pinpoint it, blah blah blah, and I am! Every single one of my plugs is a masterpiece, heck, if you tried to find it you won't. But everyone kinda doesn't like my shovel, lesche sampson that I love very dearly, and especially my lesche hand tool. I'm kind of tired of people giving me a look that's sometimes as dirty as my find. How do you manage to MD in peace?

(Highlights mine)

Sooooooooooo... The OP states that "they" don't like the shovel... the OP states that he is getting dirty looks...

Sooooooooooo... Any bets on how much time passes before detecting is banned in that area?

Sooooooooooo... When this happens, the OP will lose the site by their very own actions.

Just sayin'...

GKL · Feb 28, 2021

GKL said:
Wow, I came across encouraging info showing some areas actually state they are okay with shovels as long as they are specifically designed for metal detecting:

http://marylandfreestateclub.com/FAQ.html

......quote from the above link:

".......and a shovel made specifically for metal detecting (the only shovels permitted in city and county parks)......"

(maybe the officials there understand someone serious enough about the hobby to buy a pricey shovel meant for detecting will use it to to dig good plugs that are replaceable)

Edit to add:

Just found the official document allowing shovels specifically designed for metal detecting:

http://bcrp.baltimorecity.gov/sites/default/files/Metal%20Detecting%20Applications%202017.pdf

.....quote from the above link:

"....... any shovels not specifically designed for metal detecting are not allowed......"

(maybe if other states/towns see that document they might realize it is okay to allow with those specific guidelines)

GKL said:
.....I understand there always seem to be some that might "upset the apple cart" by asking officials without first simply just researching online to see if something is specifically prohibited in an area

It seems like the Maryland/Baltimore permit that allows for detecting and using shovels specifically designed for detecting has been in effect for a while so while it might not prevent any bad digging from happening it seems like the officials are satisfied enough to continue allowing it.

http://bcrp.baltimorecity.gov/sites/default/files/Metal%20Detecting%20Applications%202017.pdf

This other quote from that official document shows the officials are aware there might be some individuals that might leave bad digs but instead of simply revoking it for everyone they ask the responsible detectorists to repair such digs when found:

......quote from that document:

".......It is requested that detectorists repair poorly repaired holes left behind by uneducated or careless individuals. This effort will help protect the privilege of metal detecting in Baltimore City Parks......"
(end of quote)

......it's encouraging to know there are officials who don't want to automatically prohibit something simply because of the few individuals who might leave bad digs.

IDXMonster said:
Has someone actually come up to you and said something about your shovel? Or are you simply thinking that they don’t like your shovel? I gave up caring what people think a long time ago. You know what they say about a-holes and opinions...I just don’t care. Don’t go skulking around like a guilty dog, THAT will get you noticed more than anything. OWN that place! Smile big, direct eye contact and wave, continue with business. It’s takes some people time to be comfortable hunting in public places, and the more you do it the more you’ll become just another unthreatening fixture in said public places. Just like that tree, that bush, that person who walks their dog every day...

925Bill said:
As a side benefit..the vest sometimes appears as official uniform-ish to a passerby. Like you are supposed to be there.

davidlhyde63366 said:
best camo looking like you belong there.

Stiffwrists said:
I can't imagine hunting an old park for deep silver without a long handle shovel. I don't think the people who get all upset about metal detecting care what equipment you use. Some will have a problem regardless. A nicely cut plug and clean up are a must.

I do avoid parks in the high heat of summer. The sod doesn't recover as well.

KOB said:
Public perception is thrown out the window for MOST NORMAL people who take 2 minutes to watch you dig and fill a hole. Would they be upset if you had a 3' shovel and left the perfect plug with no mess ? Or would they be upset if you used a hand trowel and left a nightmare ?

Please let me clarify I am not saying that everyone in all locations might use a shovel without any negative reactions, we each have to make a judgement call for our particular area because some areas might be highly sensitive while other areas are more laid back and easy going.

I understand some detectorists might live in areas that seem to be very anti-metal-detecting and you feel like you're "walking on eggshells" detecting in apprehension that each time you get down to dig a hole a "negative nellie" is going to report you and cause problems and if you live in such an area I can appreciate your concerns, but some of us live in areas where we have yet to get one complaint or even a negative look and feel like we can simply relax and enjoy the hobby with confidence.

I can appreciate there are exceptions where such concern is warranted and places where detecting has been banned by those who lack an understanding of how harmless the hobby of metal detecting can be. On the other hand we need to realize not all areas are so anti-metal-detecting that they are waiting for the slightest excuse to ban it, the official document I found from Baltimore shows that, so I think each of us need to get a feel for how our individual areas are, some areas might be overly sensitive, other areas are more laid back and reasonable.

People complaining about my digger

KOB

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

GKL

metaladdict

Elite Member

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

IDXMonster

Elite Member

Beachhunter

Elite Member

Attachments

925Bill

Junior Member

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

IDXMonster

Elite Member

davidlhyde63366

Stiffwrists

Elite Member

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

Huckleberry

Elite Member

KOB

Beachhunter

Elite Member

T-Man

Elite Member

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

Huckleberry

Elite Member

GKL

Similar threads