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  #1  
Old 11-29-2019, 11:12 PM
LovestheShiny! LovestheShiny! is offline
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Default tones on new Simplex detector / all metal question

Have read some good reviews on the Simplex, one complaint is that field mode (which detects deeper than park mode) has only 2 tones vs the 3 tones in Park mode. I have noticed that many folks wish there were 3 tones in all the modes. Even though the detector is pretty new, do you think Notka will have a software update that will allow /create 3 tones in Field mode? Am used to 3 tones on my at pro.

Also, is "all metal" on the Simplex the same as "all metal" on the AT Max? I would guess that all metal mode would go the deepest, but of course nothing would be discriminated out and you would hear all targets, any comments appreciated or "in the field" experiences appreciated, thank you!
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:24 AM
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I was concerned that I wasn't going to like the 2 tone in field mode on the Simplex, I almost didn't buy it because of that as I'm so used to using 4 tones. Once I got some time in using it I actually started to really like it. Nokta did a good job with the 2 tone sound.

The high tone really pops out when you get over a target even when swinging fast. The vco tone gives you good info on target depth - shallow targets are very loud and the deep one's are much softer so you can quickly assess target depth.

It would be nice if they could add a third tone with a software update but for now I fine with it as is.....

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  #3  
Old 11-30-2019, 11:11 AM
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2 tone is fine for basic relic hunting, but it does lack tones, the Vanquish has 5 in each mode and as with the Nox more stable ID at depth which would probably suit many park hunters better.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2019, 11:52 AM
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Geeze, I'm so used to hunting with multi tones, nearly 100. Its easy to ID trash with audio on detectors with multi tones.
But.... I'm telling myself; look at all the guys on here that successfully hunt with a couple or 3-4 tones. I'm just looking at what I may be missing going from a mid level detector to one of these new but nicely priced machines. Simplex+ or the V. Audio is a major factor in detecting for the majority of experienced guys.

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  #5  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by LovestheShiny! Have read some good reviews on the Simplex, one complaint is that field mode (which detects deeper than park mode) has only 2 tones vs the 3 tones in Park mode.
No complaint here, and honestly, that's generally how the non-processed 1-Tone or 2-Tone modes operate on most competitive models compared with a processed 3-Tone audio. Most often we will see urban Coin Hunters using a processed 3-Tone or 4-Tone or even 5-Tone function when working typical grassy parks and similar sites. Coins are generally not as deep in most of the common places, and a processed audio is more functional at shallower to modest depth. When targets get deeper it's more difficult for a processed multi-tone to function properly.

However, a good 1-Tone or 2-Tone mode is going to function more reliably on the mid-depth to deeper targets. It's usually the better pick for working pastureland, plowed fields and other open terrain areas or wooded areas away from an urban environment area.


Originally Posted by LovestheShiny! I have noticed that many folks wish there were 3 tones in all the modes.
Not me, and I'd bet most savvy, avid detectorists wouldn't want that either. The Simplex + was well thought out with regard to the audio tone assignments, I feel, and so far I am appreciating the differences between Field, Park and Beach mode audio designs.

My evaluation time has been limited because I awoke on the 1st to 5" of snow to shovel, then an additional 4" continued to fall before dark. I should have some huntable sites again by next weekend, but the few places I made it to on Thanksgiving, Friday and Saturday, although brief, let me get a good feel for the three different audio designs.

Just as I do with my CoRe, Relic Racer 2 or T2+, I like the 3-Tone mode for average Coin Hunting conditions, around town. But in some of the older parks where I have hunted that are pretty thinned out or due to alteration with many remaining coins being found in the 4" to 8" depth, I like using the Field mode, and I also almost favor the Beach mode. A 2-Tone or 1-Tone deeper-seeking Tone ID option.

As mentioned, the Park mode is designed with a processed 3-Tone audio. The Field mode does get a bit better depth-of-detection than Park mode and uses a non-processed, modulated 2-Tone mode that is VCO enhanced.

The Beach mode has the first 3 Disc. segments notched out which covers the 0-to-15 Iron Range so there is no 'Low-Tone' for Iron like the Field mode offers. Thus all you hear are the higher-conductive targets above Iron with a non-processed single, or 1-Tone, mid-range audio tone. And, it is NOT VCO enhanced. Better depth than Park mode, and a nice, clean audio on mid-depth to deeper targets.


Originally Posted by LovestheShiny! Even though the detector is pretty new, do you think Notka will have a software update that will allow /create 3 tones in Field mode? Am used to 3 tones on my at pro.
NO, I don't think they will, and I certainly hope they don't


Originally Posted by LovestheShiny! Also, is "all metal" on the Simplex the same as "all metal" on the AT Max? I would guess that all metal mode would go the deepest, but of course nothing would be discriminated out and you would hear all targets, any comments appreciated or "in the field" experiences appreciated, thank you!
Th Ground Balance functions well in the All Metal mode and can provide better depth and overall performance in a wide range of ground mineral environments.



Originally Posted by tinsmith Geeze, I'm so used to hunting with multi tones, nearly 100. Its easy to ID trash with audio on detectors with multi tones.
If you're referring to the XT-705 in your Signature, it is a 28 -Tone choice and not 100. Must be a different model you refer to. Minelab didn't digitize the display to read 'MT 'for Multi Tone or '28' or '24' for the number of target segments it responds to. Actually, I'd have to refresh my memory because the XT-70 I had long ago after introduction, with the same Tone ID choice, has the '28' segments, but if the first 4 Iron Disc. segments only produce the same audio tone, then it only has 24 Tones and not 28.

Monte

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  #6  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:56 PM
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Thank you Monte, I really appreciate your comments! Am thinking of getting a Simplex as a 2nd detector for my wife, and as a back up to my AT Pro, or as my front line detector when chasing coins in areas where I know they are all deep.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by LovestheShiny! Thank you Monte, I really appreciate your comments!
Thank You. I just try to add when I feel it might be helpful to some and not cause an argument.


Originally Posted by LovestheShiny! Am thinking of getting a Simplex as a 2nd detector for my wife, and as a back up to my AT Pro, or as my front line detector when chasing coins in areas where I know they are all deep.
Not too bad of an idea, and the Simplex is a capable detector for a lot of hunting. We have some exposed areas in the snow now when I can work my Simplex in some exposed grassy areas, and it is one of a couple of models I keep in my vehicle now to be along in my daily travels in case an opportunity arrives.

But as capable as it is, just remember it is referred to as an 'entry level' detector. it can get some depth, but if you have an AT Pro or some other mid-priced or upper-end unit with a larger, comparable size search coil, they should be able to help you find some of the coins in areas where they tend to be a little deeper.

And for those not familiar with different audio responses used in different makes and models. most of the time a "multi-tone' detector, such as 3-Tone, 4-Tone or 5-Tone, is relying on a 'processed' audio response. More like the Standard audio on the AT Pro or 3-Tone on a Racer 2 or Relic or T2, or 4-Tone or 8-Tone on an MX-7. It can be a more modulated audio or more saturated audio, but most multi-tone responses are 'processed.'

Generally, a good single-tone or 2-Tone audio is not a 'processed' audio, but a less processed or less filtered audio response that can actually be more 'informative' and also provide a quicker response since it isn't being filtered and processed into some tone assignment based on conductivity. NOTE: Some makes and models don't use a lot of digital processing of the audio and are what I might call more of a 'raw' audio Tone ID.

Sometimes, a lot of hobbyists get used to their processed audio report and it might take a while to get comfortable with a 1-Tone or 2-Tone audio ID response. I like to use the 3-Tone on a few of my detectors when hunting in a very densely littered site that is a mix of ferrous and non-ferrous debris. Usually. And I also work very littered sites using a smaller-size coil, such as a 5" or 6" diameter.

I'll run with smaller coils in 1-Tone or 2-Tone mode as well when it is trashy or when dealing with metal pipes and structures, but the 2-Tone mode that isn't filtered and processed like a more multi-tone function will usually handle a lot of the iron trash better. Especially when hunting a site where nails and cut wire are the main annoyances, using a 2-Tone mode produces a faster audio response and recovery for a quicker follow-up positive signal, and the good targets tend to 'pop out' a lot better than in a multi-tone function.

I mention this here since we are talking about the new Simplex + which provides three different audio response modes to choose from. I like the Park mode for a lot of the "everyday" type Coin Hunting sites where most targets are going to be located surface to perhaps 4" or 5". I generally like to hear iron nails and more conductive targets so that 3-Tone Park mode works okay.

But when hunting more open areas, which I would be using the 11" DD coil for on the Simplex +, I prefer to use the 2-Tone Field mode and adjust the Iron Volume to a setting of 1 or 2 based upon ambient noise in the area. It gets better depth, the coil can be worked at a slower sweep speed, and the audio response is much more 'hearable' on targets beyond 4 or 5 inches than the Park mode.

The Field mode also has a VCO enhanced modulated audio I enjoy, but I also like the non-VCO Beach mode and have been using it quite a bit this week when I was able to get out to evaluate the performance.

I also like to use my saved Beach mode settings, and I took care of that when I set it up here in my den with a lot of EMI, but that's something I discuss with folks one-on-one.

It's a good idea to have two or more detectors on-hand, anyway, just to provide a little more versatility to make a detector 'outfit.' I think the Simplex + would be a good complement to your AT Pro.

Monte

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  #8  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Monte View post
No complaint here, and honestly, that's generally how the non-processed 1-Tone or 2-Tone modes operate on most competitive models compared with a processed 3-Tone audio. Most often we will see urban Coin Hunters using a processed 3-Tone or 4-Tone or even 5-Tone function when working typical grassy parks and similar sites. Coins are generally not as deep in most of the common places, and a processed audio is more functional at shallower to modest depth. When targets get deeper it's more difficult for a processed multi-tone to function properly.

However, a good 1-Tone or 2-Tone mode is going to function more reliably on the mid-depth to deeper targets. It's usually the better pick for working pastureland, plowed fields and other open terrain areas or wooded areas away from an urban environment area.


Not me, and I'd bet most savvy, avid detectorists wouldn't want that either. The Simplex + was well thought out with regard to the audio tone assignments, I feel, and so far I am appreciating the differences between Field, Park and Beach mode audio designs.

My evaluation time has been limited because I awoke on the 1st to 5" of snow to shovel, then an additional 4" continued to fall before dark. I should have some huntable sites again by next weekend, but the few places I made it to on Thanksgiving, Friday and Saturday, although brief, let me get a good feel for the three different audio designs.

Just as I do with my CoRe, Relic Racer 2 or T2+, I like the 3-Tone mode for average Coin Hunting conditions, around town. But in some of the older parks where I have hunted that are pretty thinned out or due to alteration with many remaining coins being found in the 4" to 8" depth, I like using the Field mode, and I also almost favor the Beach mode. A 2-Tone or 1-Tone deeper-seeking Tone ID option.

As mentioned, the Park mode is designed with a processed 3-Tone audio. The Field mode does get a bit better depth-of-detection than Park mode and uses a non-processed, modulated 2-Tone mode that is VCO enhanced.

The Beach mode has the first 3 Disc. segments notched out which covers the 0-to-15 Iron Range so there is no 'Low-Tone' for Iron like the Field mode offers. Thus all you hear are the higher-conductive targets above Iron with a non-processed single, or 1-Tone, mid-range audio tone. And, it is NOT VCO enhanced. Better depth than Park mode, and a nice, clean audio on mid-depth to deeper targets.


NO, I don't think they will, and I certainly hope they don't


Th Ground Balance functions well in the All Metal mode and can provide better depth and overall performance in a wide range of ground mineral environments.



If you're referring to the XT-705 in your Signature, it is a 28 -Tone choice and not 100. Must be a different model you refer to. Minelab didn't digitize the display to read 'MT 'for Multi Tone or '28' or '24' for the number of target segments it responds to. Actually, I'd have to refresh my memory because the XT-70 I had long ago after introduction, with the same Tone ID choice, has the '28' segments, but if the first 4 Iron Disc. segments only produce the same audio tone, then it only has 24 Tones and not 28.

Monte
Thanks Monte and not a prob but yeah the Xterra 705 is what Im referring to. (My only machine) Per the manual. Press Menu/Select Tones and choose . Use the + and ľ to select either 1, 2, 3, 4, or Multiple Target Tones (99). 1 Tone Press Pinpoint/Detect detection. to return to
Truthfully, I can't say I can hear all 99. Nor can I say this 99 tones are not a typo in the manual?? I'm only saying and (non argumentive) that Im so used to the multi setting that Id have to really adjust to 2-4 tone settings on a machine.

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  #9  
Old 12-09-2019, 12:19 PM
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Like any brand, there are higher-end (higher priced) detectors that have more features and options from Nokta | Makro.

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Old 12-11-2019, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tinsmith I'm only saying and (non argumentive) that Im so used to the multi setting that Id have to really adjust to 2-4 tone settings on a machine.
No problem. Many makes and models have terminology used by a manufacturer that is different from what we might expect. I was provided an X-Terra 30 and X-terra 50, then when the X-Terra 70 came out I was provided one of those as well.

New and creative design from Minelab and, generally, I liked the 50 and 70 because they worked okay in my high mineralized ground in Oregon, and sites I hunted in Utah and Nevada. Not the 30 because there was no Ground Balance and the preset GB was too negative for our higher mineralization. It went to PA where it worked okay.

The manual GB was different to get used to because to Increase the GB for more mineralized ground, you had to Decrease or manually educe the numeric value to a Lower number rather than Increasing the numeric setting to a higher number.

Also, the XT-70, like your 705, used '99' to suggest multi-tones, but the tone assignment is directly associated with the number of Discrimination segments. Not 99 individual tones, but they are not alone on this.

I enjoy my Nokta / Makro models, and some of them have 2-Tone, 3-Tone, 4-Tone or 5-Tone as well as 99-Tones .... but they aren't '99' tones. Those models have a tone assignment related to the VDI numeric read-out which goes up to '99', however ....

The Low-Tone Iron Audio Tones, covers the first 15 numeric VDI Numbers of the Ferrous range and only produced 1 single Low-Tone Audio. Take '15' from '99' and you have '84' Tones plus the '1' Iron Audio Tone so the '99' Tone mode is actually an '85' Tone mode.

Other confusing things are when they call All Metal a GEN mode, or ID Mask or ID Filter are terms on some models that simply means Discrimination.

I have about 14 detectors on-hand, counting a few duplicates, and the ONLY detector I enjoy using that has a multi-tone audio across the Discrimination spread is the White's XLT. I find it very pleasant and informative in most of the hunt sites where I use it. I haven't found a 5-Tone I like or a 4-Tone mode other than the tone assignments I gave my Fisher F-44 in the Custom mode.

With my Nokta CoRe and Relic and Makro Racer 2 and Nokta / Makro Simplex + and Teknetics T2+ I use only the 3-Tone or 2-Tone modes based upon the sites I hunt and amount and type of trash I'm dealing with. I like the 1 -Tone I get from my Tesoro Bandido II ÁMAX and Silver Sabre ÁMAX and modified White's IDX Pro.

In other words, we all grow to like or dislike some of the audio tone options based on what pleases us as well as how the particular detectors were designed. I have a couple of friends who used the X-Terra's and some liked the multi-tone while others just couldn't stand it.

It's nice to have options in either available modes on one or two models or just have different detectors that have audio responses that appeal to us. So until you can add one or two detectors to your arsenal that you like more, I hope the 705 and available multi-tones continue to keep you pleased .... while finding stuff!!

Monte

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  #11  
Old 12-12-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Monte View post
No problem. Many makes and models have terminology used by a manufacturer that is different from what we might expect. I was provided an X-Terra 30 and X-terra 50, then when the X-Terra 70 came out I was provided one of those as well.

New and creative design from Minelab and, generally, I liked the 50 and 70 because they worked okay in my high mineralized ground in Oregon, and sites I hunted in Utah and Nevada. Not the 30 because there was no Ground Balance and the preset GB was too negative for our higher mineralization. It went to PA where it worked okay.

The manual GB was different to get used to because to Increase the GB for more mineralized ground, you had to Decrease or manually educe the numeric value to a Lower number rather than Increasing the numeric setting to a higher number.

Also, the XT-70, like your 705, used '99' to suggest multi-tones, but the tone assignment is directly associated with the number of Discrimination segments. Not 99 individual tones, but they are not alone on this.

I enjoy my Nokta / Makro models, and some of them have 2-Tone, 3-Tone, 4-Tone or 5-Tone as well as 99-Tones .... but they aren't '99' tones. Those models have a tone assignment related to the VDI numeric read-out which goes up to '99', however ....

The Low-Tone Iron Audio Tones, covers the first 15 numeric VDI Numbers of the Ferrous range and only produced 1 single Low-Tone Audio. Take '15' from '99' and you have '84' Tones plus the '1' Iron Audio Tone so the '99' Tone mode is actually an '85' Tone mode.

Other confusing things are when they call All Metal a GEN mode, or ID Mask or ID Filter are terms on some models that simply means Discrimination.

I have about 14 detectors on-hand, counting a few duplicates, and the ONLY detector I enjoy using that has a multi-tone audio across the Discrimination spread is the White's XLT. I find it very pleasant and informative in most of the hunt sites where I use it. I haven't found a 5-Tone I like or a 4-Tone mode other than the tone assignments I gave my Fisher F-44 in the Custom mode.

With my Nokta CoRe and Relic and Makro Racer 2 and Nokta / Makro Simplex + and Teknetics T2+ I use only the 3-Tone or 2-Tone modes based upon the sites I hunt and amount and type of trash I'm dealing with. I like the 1 -Tone I get from my Tesoro Bandido II ÁMAX and Silver Sabre ÁMAX and modified White's IDX Pro.

In other words, we all grow to like or dislike some of the audio tone options based on what pleases us as well as how the particular detectors were designed. I have a couple of friends who used the X-Terra's and some liked the multi-tone while others just couldn't stand it.

It's nice to have options in either available modes on one or two models or just have different detectors that have audio responses that appeal to us. So until you can add one or two detectors to your arsenal that you like more, I hope the 705 and available multi-tones continue to keep you pleased .... while finding stuff!!

Monte
Thanks Monte, your explanation is well appreciated. After reading the booklet by Randy Horton, Understanding your Xterra, I learned to do the wiggle pull method for trash ID. It requires multi tones. Ive never changed that setting as Im so used to it. When the snow melts I'm going to go wtih 3-4 tones and try 2.

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