Legend or Equinox and why?

Folks can buy what they want.
What folks can’t say here is ole Sharpshooter didn’t tell you so. If one is disappointed later on with their purchase based on certain performance I have alluded to.

You know how many hours I spend looking at VLF detectors? Loads.
And my info is indeed free.
Plus I show the evidence via video.
Plus I walk folks though the scenario and detector settings.
All in the open.

Does anyone here expect a manufacturer to admit weakness with their equipment? As it compares to the competition. Yeah. That ain’t happening. I’m afraid.

tnsharpshooter said:

But I did have a trial.

Click to expand...

You need more than 1 or 2...

Okay, let me sketch out an example experiment to show you the difference. Let's say you wanted to know which detector performs better in modern trash.

Gather 100 various piece of trash, bottle caps, foil, pulltabs, juice boxes, any example of modern trash, even better if directly sourced from a park. Now gather 20 different targets, coins, jewelry, etc.

Now test each of the 20 targets against each 100 pieces of trash, at 10 different target configuration distances and record the results.

20,000 trials later you might have a meaningful data that could show how a detector performs across a variety of targets against a variety of pieces of trash at a variety of separation distances. Whichever detector performs better across that wide variety of configurations of modern trash may be the better detector in modern trash. (Note, I still only say may)

Yes, that is a lot of trials and a lot of time. Science takes time.

Generally speaking, if you can do your "experiment" in a 10 minute Youtube video, you aren't actually performing a test / experiment, but rather some sort of demonstration (from which you should draw no conclusions).

AccurateCalls said:

You need more than 1 or 2...

Okay, let me sketch out an example experiment to show you the difference. Let's say you wanted to know which detector performs better in modern trash.

Gather 100 various piece of trash, bottle caps, foil, pulltabs, juice boxes, any example of modern trash, even better if directly sourced from a park. Now gather 20 different targets, coins, jewelry, etc.

Now test each of the 20 targets against each 100 pieces of trash, at 10 different target configuration distances and record the results.

20,000 trials later you might have a meaningful data that could show how a detector performs across a variety of targets against a variety of pieces of trash at a variety of separation distances. Whichever detector performs better across that wide variety of configurations of modern trash may be the better detector in modern trash. (Note, I still only say may)

Yes, that is a lot of trials and a lot of time. Science takes time.

Generally speaking, if you can do your "experiment" in a 10 minute Youtube video, you aren't actually performing a test / experiment, but rather some sort of demonstration (from which you should draw no conclusions).

Click to expand...

Let’s use your logic.
Ok.
I go outside when it is raining. Without umbrella or other protective thingy.
And I get wet. So I deduced from my first outing in the rain I get wet.

By your logic I should have to go out in the rain for how many times before I can deuce when I go outside when it is raining I get wet.

Do I need to do that 20,000 times to prove?

You are laughable.

Yeah these keyboard types. Gotta watch those. Put little stock in.

tnsharpshooter said:

Let’s use your logic.
Ok.
I go outside when it is raining. Without umbrella or other protective thingy.
And I get wet. So I deduced from my first outing in the rain I get wet.

By your logic I should have to go out in the rain for how many times before I can deuce when I go outside when it is raining I get wet.

Do I need to do that 20,000 times to prove?

You are laughable.

Yeah these keyboard types. Gotta watch those. Put little stock in.

Click to expand...

Are you really trying to attack the idea that an experiment should have multiple trials?

tnsharpshooter said:

Folks can buy what they want.
What folks can’t say here is ole Sharpshooter didn’t tell you so. If one is disappointed later on with their purchase based on certain performance I have alluded to.

You know how many hours I spend looking at VLF detectors? Loads.
And my info is indeed free.
Plus I show the evidence via video.
Plus I walk folks though the scenario and detector settings.
All in the open.

Does anyone here expect a manufacturer to admit weakness with their equipment? As it compares to the competition. Yeah. That ain’t happening. I’m afraid.

Click to expand...

TN , Makro / Nokta will resolve this issue with a update,we all know that.. And to be fair here the Deus 2 and the Equinox were both released prematurely and both also suffered performance wise from unforeseen circumstances,and were made right with updates... Not that big of a deal imo ,and if your counting machines out because things need tweaked in a update then you should of counted your Deus 2 out a week after you got it,cause it went through how many updates to get it right?.This is getting ridiculous

tnsharpshooter said:

Let’s use your logic.
Ok.
I go outside when it is raining. Without umbrella or other protective thingy.
And I get wet. So I deduced from my first outing in the rain I get wet.

By your logic I should have to go out in the rain for how many times before I can deuce when I go outside when it is raining I get wet.

Do I need to do that 20,000 times to prove?

Click to expand...

Worst analogy ever.

You only have 2 easily identified variables. That is, "Is it raining or not?", and, "Am I using an umbrella or not?".

With detectors, there are a multitude of variables, and to make it more complex, one variable can affect another. Then of course, is bias.

AccurateCalls said:

Are you really trying to attack the idea that an experiment should have multiple trials?

Click to expand...

I have done multiple trials.
I didn’t do one test or do one head to head and come up with my conclusion.
Multiple multiple.
Slot machine keeps coming up cherries- meaning EQX Park 1 has advantage.

Earlier in this topic I recommended the Legend over the Equinox 600. I know about this low conductor adjacent to high conductor "issue" that is being discussed here. I have seen its effects in testing and on hunts. It is important and I hope Nokta Makro can make it a little better in their next Legend update, just like I hope they can improve sensitivity, consistency and stability over more of their 11" DD coil's surface so that at least the center spine of the coil will respond to a target with more stability and won't require a near perfect level swing over the target.

This aluminum target adjacent to a high conductor deficiency in the Legend is real. Replicating this test is super easy to do. You can use any US dime and any aluminum target you want to use whether it is bigger or smaller than the dime. At some point depending on your aluminum targets surface size and distance from the dime, the dime will become masked using M1 no matter what setting you use for recovery speed and for the iron filter. You can make the test as realistic as you want. Similar behavior happens with the Equinox when using the 2 modes just like it does using the M2 setting on the Legend. The masking happens a lot stronger with the Legend at this point from my experience. Does that make the Legend a poor performer on mid to high conductive coin and jewelry targets in thick modern aluminum trash. Not for me. My Legend is 2/3rds paid for just from the higher conductive US clad and silver coin and jewelry finds that I have made with it since getting mine in mid March. My Equinox 800s have been fully paid for from the higher conductive clad, silver coins and silver jewelry that I have found with it even using Park 2 and Field 2 in really modern aluminum trashed parks despite not doing real well in similar same plane tests.......

I still recommend the Legend over the Equinox 600. I doubt the Equinox 600 will receive any performance based software updates in the future and its structural deficiencies have been well documented. I am confident that the Legend will receive multiple updates that will continue to improve its performance. There have been no widespread reports of Legends leaking and coil ears breaking. There have been update, external speaker and power management problem reports. I am confident that the Nokta Makro software/design engineers know about this issue with M1 low/high conductor masking and are working on an improvement.

You guys are attacking the messengers here. The more you attack them the more they will make videos about this low conductor masking high conductor issue and the whole vicious cycle will start up all over again.

I have two Equinox 800s and a Legend. What tnsharpshooter is showing in this simple test is true no matter how much anybody wants to refute it, deny it, ignore it or deflect blame back on the tester.

You can use a modern oval pull tab, older rectangular pull tab, just a beaver tail off of a ring pull, an aluminum candy wrapper, you pick. If that aluminum target is roughly the same size or bigger than the dime it will mask the dime if the dime is roughly an inch away. If you have an Equinox it will very likely out perform the Legend on the same target scenario using default Park 1 settings.......

jmaclen said:

Earlier in this topic I recommended the Legend over the Equinox 600. I know about this low conductor adjacent to high conductor "issue" that is being discussed here. I have seen its effects in testing and on hunts. It is important and I hope Nokta Makro can make it a little better in their next Legend update, just like I hope they can improve sensitivity, consistency and stability over more of their 11" DD coil's surface so that at least the center spine of the coil will respond to a target with more stability and won't require a near perfect level swing over the target.

This aluminum target adjacent to a high conductor deficiency in the Legend is real. Replicating this test is super easy to do. You can use any US dime and any aluminum target you want to use whether it is bigger or smaller than the dime. At some point depending on your aluminum targets surface size and distance from the dime, the dime will become masked using M1 no matter what setting you use for recovery speed and for the iron filter. You can make the test as realistic as you want. Similar behavior happens with the Equinox when using the 2 modes just like it does using the M2 setting on the Legend. The masking happens a lot stronger with the Legend at this point from my experience. Does that make the Legend a poor performer on mid to high conductive coin and jewelry targets in thick modern aluminum trash. Not for me. My Legend is 2/3rds paid for just from the higher conductive US clad and silver coin and jewelry finds that I have made with it since getting mine in mid March. My Equinox 800s have been fully paid for from the higher conductive clad, silver coins and silver jewelry that I have found with it even using Park 2 and Field 2 in really modern aluminum trashed parks despite not doing real well in similar same plane tests.......

I still recommend the Legend over the Equinox 600. I doubt the Equinox 600 will receive any performance based software updates in the future and its structural deficiencies have been well documented. I am confident that the Legend will receive multiple updates that will continue to improve its performance. There have been no widespread reports of Legends leaking and coil ears breaking. There have been update, external speaker and power management problem reports. I am confident that the Nokta Makro software/design engineers know about this issue with M1 low/high conductor masking and are working on an improvement.

You guys are attacking the messengers here. The more you attack them the more they will make videos about this low conductor masking high conductor issue and the whole vicious cycle will start up all over again.

I have two Equinox 800s and a Legend. What tnsharpshooter is showing in this simple test is true no matter how much anybody wants to refute it, deny it, ignore it or deflect blame back on the tester.

Click to expand...

The masking of a high conductor from the foil is definitely true. And I give TN all the credit for showing that to not only me,but everyone including nokta.

I did multiple videos on this topic with Legend for only one reason. To give folks some practical situations to see detector behavior. Not just one scenario and then start posting about this behavior.

Now I can say this.
Legend as far as the negative seen with lower conductors masking (giving lower ID than actual of desired target) both high and low conductors. Legend does better on say gold ring. Vs say nickel. Why? I can’t say for sure. Other than the fact ring is ring shaped vs disc shaped like a coin. Granted Legend in doing test with gold rings still is acting subpar (just not as subpar) to Eqx using park 1.

Cheers.

My info I post on this forum is free for the taking. Free to the manufacturer too. As well as the videos I post on you tube.
Could these help manufacturer? Maybe.

To add here.
I see some making reference to paystreak as far as his success with Legend. Well, based on about all I have seen with his videos. He is basically doing beep and dig detecting. In doing so how would he or anyone else for that matter realize by doing the way Legend is as far as the masking going on with lower conductors like foil. Remember many desirable targets will still give audio on Legend with say foil masking happening to a degree. Yet ID can be in error -sometimes more, sometimes less).

If a guy was a gold hunter ,this glitch would be perfect for avoiding coins close to gold rings .lol

Can someone confirm what I am seeing here in this video. With their Legend.
See this link post #277.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?p=3412643#post3412643

Whatever you decide....happy hunting!

I don't have a lot of time on either one yet, but I have tested many detectors over the years and I can say I feel both are extremely close in ability. That is to say, I wouldn't say one is any deeper than the other. Personally, I do like the GUI(graphical user interface), or the menus/display, better on the Equinox. But then the Equinox is more expensive, when new.

I like the feel of the Legend over the Equinox as well as the shaft camlocks of the Legend over the push button locks of the Equinox.

tnsharpshooter said:

I did multiple videos on this topic with Legend for only one reason. To give folks some practical situations to see detector behavior. Not just one scenario and then start posting about this behavior.

Now I can say this.
Legend as far as the negative seen with lower conductors masking (giving lower ID than actual of desired target) both high and low conductors. Legend does better on say gold ring. Vs say nickel. Why? I can’t say for sure. Other than the fact ring is ring shaped vs disc shaped like a coin. Granted Legend in doing test with gold rings still is acting subpar (just not as subpar) to Eqx using park 1.

Cheers.

My info I post on this forum is free for the taking. Free to the manufacturer too. As well as the videos I post on you tube.
Could these help manufacturer? Maybe.

To add here.
I see some making reference to paystreak as far as his success with Legend. Well, based on about all I have seen with his videos. He is basically doing beep and dig detecting. In doing so how would he or anyone else for that matter realize by doing the way Legend is as far as the masking going on with lower conductors like foil. Remember many desirable targets will still give audio on Legend with say foil masking happening to a degree. Yet ID can be in error -sometimes more, sometimes less).

Click to expand...

To be fair, Paystreak uses the Deus 2 primarily and I am sure he has good reason.


I have also seen multiple videos where he is using the D2 and his friend is using the Legend with the 9x5 coil and the Legend doesn't hit targets the D2 hits easily. Not bashing the Nokta, I have used one since launch and it is a good machine. But I also cannot deny that the Legend seems inconsistent sometimes, in my expereince. I have even scored coins with the Simplex at places I know I hammered with the Legend multiple times.


If I had to choose between the Nox and the Legend I would skip both and get a D2 master for the same basic price.

NHDirtShark said:

To be fair, Paystreak uses the Deus 2 primarily and I am sure he has good reason.


I have also seen multiple videos where he is using the D2 and his friend is using the Legend with the 9x5 coil and the Legend doesn't hit targets the D2 hits easily. Not bashing the Nokta, I have used one since launch and it is a good machine. But I also cannot deny that the Legend seems inconsistent sometimes, in my expereince. I have even scored coins with the Simplex at places I know I hammered with the Legend multiple times.

Click to expand...

What videos might that be? I would like to see them, as well as see the settings.

So they were comparing a D2 with either the 9" round coil or the 11" round coil, to the smaller 9.5x6 that was on the Legend? A 3" or 5" coil width difference, which is very important for depth.

The top tier SMF detectors from the 800 forward, use the same fundamental technology. As such, there is only marginal difference in raw performance provided that the same coil size is used, and the settings are similar.

You have even scored coins with the Simplex at places you know you hammered with the Legend multiple times? Really? That could only mean something was wrong with your Legend, or you had something wonky going on with the settings. The Legend is a FAR more capable detector than the Simplex. There is no such thing as a target that the Simplex can hit, that the Legend can't hit. But, there are many targets that the Legend will hit, that the Simplex won't even see.

Digalicious said:

What videos might that be? I would like to see them, as well as see the settings.

So they were comparing a D2 with either the 9" round coil or the 11" round coil, to the smaller 9.5x6 that was on the Legend? A 3" or 5" coil width difference, which is very important for depth.

The top tier SMF detectors from the 800 forward, use the same fundamental technology. As such, there is only marginal difference in raw performance provided that the same coil size is used, and the settings are similar.

You have even scored coins with the Simplex at places you know you hammered with the Legend multiple times? Really? That could only mean something was wrong with your Legend, or you had something wonky going on with the settings. The Legend is a FAR more capable detector than the Simplex. There is no such thing as a target that the Simplex can hit, that the Legend can't hit. But, there are many targets that the Legend will hit, that the Simplex won't even see.

Click to expand...

I believe in the case of the simplex finding coins the legend didn't I was likely running in single freq 15k, field, high gain, recovery 10. You could be right, but I wouldn't say the simplex HAS to always perform worse than the legend in every scenario, too many factors to say that definitively. The simplex is a coin magnet and has surprised me many times. In one case in particular I found 2 IHPs with the simplex in an area I know I hit with the legend, and deep too, like 9 inches.

Don't get me wrong, I find great stuff with the legend too, it is a great machine. I just think that in certain conditions even the best detector may miss something another detector finds. Seems random but it isnt.

As for Paystreaks videos I have seen so many I cant recall which ones demonstrated this and also, I don't know what the legends settings were. A well dialed in d2 is of course going to outshoot a legend with bad settings, but they seem to know what they are doing. I can try to find one if I get time. I was shocked by this because with the stock 11" legend coil I didn't see this happen, then the 9x5 coil came out everybody jumped on it and I saw this happen a few times in his videos. Of course these are park hunts, shallow targets, etc.

I only mention it because I have been using the legend since launch and have had a sneaking suspicion that I was missing something.

In the end, the legend doesn't have to be perfect to be perfect to own. It is a fantastic machine.

NHDirtShark said:

You could be right, but I wouldn't say the simplex HAS to always perform worse than the legend in every scenario, too many factors to say that definitively.

Click to expand...

Put the Legend in 10 or 15 khz, and it will essentially be a Simplex. They will hit targets almost identically. However, with the Legend's much faster speed, SMF modes, the iron filter control, etc, it will find countless targets that the Simplex misses. I could give numerous examples of such if requested.

Since I wrote my previous post, I went to Paystreak's channel. It just so happens that he posted a video yesterday titled, "Comparing Nokta Legend and XP Deus 2 on real targets in the park".

The comparison was so poorly done, that it was laughable. With no exaggeration, it was by far, the worst comparison test I have ever seen. There was so much wrong with it, that it's hard to know where to begin, but I'll try:

1) The detectors were using different sized coils.

2) There was no relevant mention of any modes or settings.

3) Paystreak's swing was very different than the other guys swing. If I had to sum up the other guys swing in one word, it would be "sloppy".

Anyway, they (poorly) compared 5 targets. Both detectors hit all 5 targets, but on one hole, the Legend only gave a one way hit. That turned out to be a nail and pulltab in the hole. Incidentally, that guys Pitch mode on his Legend doesn't sound right.

It doesn't matter though, because for all the reasons I mentioned, the comparison was worthless and meaningless. However, the video has great value if it's used as a teaching tool to show how bad a comparison test could be

Digalicious said:

Put the Legend in 10 or 15 khz, and it will essentially be a Simplex. They will hit targets almost identically. However, with the Legend's much faster speed, SMF modes, the iron filter control, etc, it will find countless targets that the Simplex misses. I could give numerous examples of such if requested.

Since I wrote my previous post, I went to Paystreak's channel. It just so happens that he posted a video yesterday titled, "Comparing Nokta Legend and XP Deus 2 on real targets in the park".

The comparison was so poorly done, that it was laughable. With no exaggeration, it was by far, the worst comparison test I have ever seen. There was so much wrong with it, that it's hard to know where to begin, but I'll try:

1) The detectors were using different sized coils.

2) There was no relevant mention of any modes or settings.

3) Paystreak's swing was very different than the other guys swing. If I had to sum up the other guys swing in one word, it would be "sloppy".

Anyway, they (poorly) compared 5 targets. Both detectors hit all 5 targets, but on one hole, the Legend only gave a one way hit. That turned out to be a nail and pulltab in the hole. Incidentally, that guys Pitch mode on his Legend doesn't sound right.

It doesn't matter though, because for all the reasons I mentioned, the comparison was worthless and meaningless. However, the video has great value if it's used as a teaching tool to show how bad a comparison test could be

Click to expand...

It just gets me how sloppy many videos done in swing style with a metal detector I see posted, and these are supposed to be the experts! Why all of the fish tailing?

Martin_V3i said:

It just gets me how sloppy many videos done in swing style with a metal detector I see posted, and these are supposed to be the experts! Why all of the fish tailing?

Click to expand...

Nothing personal and no offence to the guy using the Legend, but uh, he doesn't seem very good at whatever it is he's doing.