Soil Volume Calculations...How Are They Determined??

IDXMonster

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I know the formula for calculating the volume of a cylinder and how to use it,but when I run the numbers on a 6” coil I get around 2/3 of a gallon at 8” deep. On the 13” Detech coil I get about 1.75 gallons at 10” deep. These numbers seem to be WAY off other calculations I’ve seen (and now can’t seem to find). Given the DD configuration and the serious absence of any depictions that all people agree on...how can these calculations even be done? I’m just horsing around with this to see how big the difference REALLY is but don’t want to miss any obvious variables either when deciding what coil to use where.
Please enlighten me with FACTS if you have some please!
 
What formula are you using? I was curious and ran the numbers for the 6" coil and got just a hair shy of a gallon at 8" deep. Post the values you read about too if you can find them.
 
Please enlighten me with FACTS if you have some please!

I don't have any real facts regarding how soil volumes can definitively be determined for MD coils, but I can throw some food for thought at you (apologies in advance if you've already considered all of this). The variation you may be seeing for soil volumes on a DD coil may be resulting from different assumptions or approximations being made about the shape of the detection field as it penetrates the ground. Not only is the surface area of the DD coil more difficult to calculate because of it's unusual shape, but also keep in mind that the detection field isn't an easily calculated "box" either. A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a pic from Garrett showing a general depiction of a typical DD coil detection field from the front and side views...based on this image, a plan (overhead) view of the detection field would essentially have a modified star or cross shape:
 

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What formula are you using? I was curious and ran the numbers for the 6" coil and got just a hair shy of a gallon at 8" deep. Post the values you read about too if you can find them.

I am using pi-r squared times depth. 3.14x6x8. For the bigger coils I had read something like 10 gallons of dirt but can’t find the thread on another forum. A gallon is 231-ish ci while the calculation value for the 6” coil is 150-ish ci...
 
I am not sure if I can be much help here Kev.
Therefore I will just muddle things up as ususal.

Since you did bring up variables and how they affect choices of coil.

Let's put a wine screw cap 3 inches under the center of the coil .
Now how much of your volume is left ?
Even a rivet at a couple inches or a small nail must cast a shadow down into the volume below it. Is the volume the same if you are running with no discrimination ? Yet when you disc out the nail are you losing everything in that shadow so to speak as if we were shining a light down from above.
A form of what we call (masking ) but in my opinion masking is more of an item you have discriminated out actually shutting your machines down for a fraction of a second that creates a blind spot during your swing directly behind the target. If you run a threashold back ground hum these notched window closings can become more evident.


That is one thing I always wondered about the CTX and its abuility to show two separate targets on the veiw screan .
Have you ever run that mode and have you ever seen two targets say an iron nail and a coin one directly below the other ?
Or is it only more side by side with variations in depth?
Can that rig capture all of the volume or is there still a shadow that hides things below.
I'm guessing yes there is a shadow .

Let's not forget frequency .. as machines calibrated for silver can sift threw let's say a gallon of volume with a certain coil.
But hunt gold without a frequency more suitable for gold nuggets is your same coil only capable to sort thre a half gallon of volume on the lower conductor?

I am not sure what the actual question is here .
Are you adding a small coil? Then get one for the job. No cross over volume advantage. Scout with your stock coil . You know what to do with your 17 already. Go for the sniper . A surgical instrument. Overlap is unnecessary.
In theory a smaller coil is capable of less depth but in trash more capable of casting less shadows as there are less items under the coil at a given time .

Sort of like using a weed eater around the tree (trash ) rather then a 52 inch rider . Or Like digging under a root for a target .. a smaller coil can come in closer and even be more likely to come in underneath the problem at An angle with the twist of the wrist.

I think this is where these new machines and technologies are offering up some major advantages running multiple frequencies and angles from the coils .

They are capable of giving us a better chance to hear a chirp or clue that we should stop and investigate.
From there it's up to us to analyze the mess of what combinations are under that coil.
I would say the more volume the better if the information gathered an paint a good picture.
We hunt in a cherry pickers mindset. Some trashy spots the smaller coil is better.
Less volume means less garble.
If we would have a dig it all mentality all of the garble would get removed from the ground until we gave it a final full volume sweep and nothing was left.

I have dug plenty of silver at around 6 inches in a pile of trash that has given me a low penny zink or Indian signal . These are extremely messy spots .
How to know how much volume is being seen under my coil at that time is hard to guess.
But at that time my Etrac is hitting on a coin and average conductivity is braught down from a solid 12-46 to a ? - 35 due to all the !!!! under the coil.
Maybe the smaller coil and smaller window would have braught down that number by only a few. Who knows .
We do know it's likely to be a coin and in old very messy dirt that's been over a hundread times and the fact that based on experience and the fact that I can hear the other low conductors around it I have high percentage target down there.
Finding the fish and then fine tuning your equipment and methods is the key.

If your asking this question because your considering adding a sniper or small coil . I would say go for it . The stock coil is in my opinion the best starting point until you know it's time to go deeper . Yet trash pockets after a short investigation of potential would have me running to the truck for that small coil pretty quickly. Less volume can be amazing.
Having all three coils on my Vaquero taught me that the smaller viewing window is very fun and worth wile . That 5 inch is amazing in a garage pile.
Sorry to garble up your thread Kev.
You are a master technician Kev .
You have multiple sizes of the same tool in the box for a reason. Things that allow you to get at things from all angles . but we all know Your mind is the sharpest tool in the box. 😎


,Dew
 

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Oh and Kev .. remember to stay on topic.
We are discussing Volume.
Please leave Density out of this as it pertains to my above post .🤓
 
Thats been my experience with DD coils! I love them! Sort of flat like a paintbrush or a broom, but they have that taper as Tango pictogrammed here for us......Thats how come a guy can 'hop coil' to pinpoint or isolate one specific target out of a mess of junk...
 
Doubt this will be of value other than a smile, but seeing your discussion is of volume and density of dirt. Well what happens when you add water. Beside making mud. Trapper
 
Doubt this will be of value other than a smile, but seeing your discussion is of volume and density of dirt. Well what happens when you add water. Beside making mud. Trapper

lol Trap, I tried to blow some smoke up above to make it sound like I know what I'm talking about but what ever Kev is working on upstairs in his basement secret laboratory 🔬 is way the heck over my head.😳
We need to get Airforce MIke in here to translate this stuff into English so I can follow along.
I only continued because he mentioned something about pie😋
 
You had some good thoughts there Brad! I am very impressed!:grin:
I am looking at that depiction and then thinking of the volume numbers stated by some and there’s some discrepancy going on. I would believe 1 gallon for a 6” coil operating at its effective depth(the depth,on average, to which it will report a target accurately enough to dig or not.) The rest of what you had is all stuff to ponder...how can we OPTIMIZE every hunt so that we have that “edge”? That’s what I always wonder...
VERY well said and thought out stuff there buddy,you know what’s up:cool:
 
Doubt this will be of value other than a smile, but seeing your discussion is of volume and density of dirt. Well what happens when you add water. Beside making mud. Trapper

MUD you say?:lol: Well...right now you have FROZEN mud! I have a few places I can still get through but these are closer by and have been tilled thoroughly...hence my desire to put on the tiny coil and root around.
Water,wet green plants,water making iron come alive...too much can be bad! How do we know how much is “right” to optimize a site? Almost ALL questions can only be answered via the results we see, or do NOT see. We don’t get to set up the situation as in the nail board test or other testing...the possibilities are infinite for positions of targets with other targets.What size coil will see the most the best and why? These days a lot of people are saying that co-located targets represent the vast majority of remaining targets...and that depth overall is very secondary. Well...we will see about THAT! Even if there is mud involved.:grin:
 
Thats been my experience with DD coils! I love them! Sort of flat like a paintbrush or a broom, but they have that taper as Tango pictogrammed here for us......Thats how come a guy can 'hop coil' to pinpoint or isolate one specific target out of a mess of junk...

A lot of people don’t think to raise the coil to get some of the possibly offending perimeter/deeper trash out of the coils field Mud, I have done this before...and it isolates surface/really shallow stuff very well too! I don’t “hop” it so much as just swinging or wiggling some distance off the ground to see if I can JUST get the signal I want. Sometimes the isolation works,if most or all of the garbage is deeper. I like the accuracy of a small concentric as I think it “envelopes” the target and is more likely to view all aspects at once,but that is based on what I’ve seen as well as some of these depictions of what a coils field supposedly “looks like”. I’m not 100% positive they really look like that. If they did...why are the outside edges “hot” as well?
Hmmmmm.......:lol:
 
I am using pi-r squared times depth. 3.14x6x8. For the bigger coils I had read something like 10 gallons of dirt but can’t find the thread on another forum. A gallon is 231-ish ci while the calculation value for the 6” coil is 150-ish ci...

Sorry, but gotta say it...pies aren't square, they are round! ;):p:D
 
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