Myers Depot Metal Detectors

More a question about where you DON'T need permission

M

MikeSD

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Joined
Sep 16, 2014
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Yes I realize every piece of land on earth is spoken for. And even on land where permission is already given, that is still permission. I'm looking for places where no specific applications, forms, permission requests, or seeking out land owner permissions is needed to hunt and keep relics. And im not B talking about major archeological sites that might be protected. Just general relic hunting that might be old dropped objects.

I believe DNR and National Forests are open to metal detecting, unless specifically closed to the activity.

1) Is that true?

I was out on a drive this weekend, on DNR land controlled by Fish and Wildlife, in WA State. It was on a green dot road that had a historical significance. I was thinking it might be interesting to do some detecting on that road.

At the entrance of the green dot road, there was a sign that said "Do not remove artifacts without landowner permission."

That implies hunting relics is ok, i would assume, with permission.
But the problem is how do you know which property need landowner permission and which do not? I guess one could rely on Google maps. The roads are mostly on DNR land. Some private land ownership is there also.

2) is it legal to detect and remove relics, along side roads, on DNR or National Forest roads?

3) What are some other places where no specific permissions are required, to hunt and keep relics?

I'm just looking for places to use my Minelab 800, outside my yard. and places I might be going anyway. I go out driving in my jeep most weekends. Mostly on DNR land and National Forests.
 
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CarsonChris said:
Don’t ask, don’t tell.
Click to expand...

haha. BUT SERIOUSLY NOW :

MikeSD said:
... I'm looking for places where no specific applications, forms, permission requests, or seeking out land owner permissions is needed .... .....
Click to expand...

MikeSD said:
... unless specifically closed to the activity.....
Click to expand...

You hit the nail-on-the-head @ the 2nd quote. Ie.: If something isn't specifically disallowed, then why oh why do you think you need express allowance ?

As for the nuances of "relic" vs "artifact" vs "significance", vs "dig" vs "disturb" blah blah blah : If you start down THAT path of differentiation , is the moment that you're going to need some archie's/bureaucrat's definitions . And the moment you start down THAT path, is the moment you're going to run into the "no one cared till you asked " phenomenon :roll:

Me thinks that you're over-thinking this. If you're in the middle of nowhere , then .... who the heck is out there studying encyclopedias, and waiting behind every bush waiting to rush out and accost you ? :?:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
haha. BUT SERIOUSLY NOW :

Me thinks that you're over-thinking this. If you're in the middle of nowhere , then .... who the heck is out there studying encyclopedias, and waiting behind every bush waiting to rush out and accost you ? :?:
Click to expand...

That is certainly a possibility. I do tend to overthink. But in my 75 years on this planet, I have found it better to overthink, than to underthink.

The way I tend to think. If I was 100 miles from nowhere, and hadnt seen a human for days,, if i found a 2 hundred year old artifact, gov agents and CNN would show up in 5 minutes. :D

I would still like to know, in general, if metal detecting and removal of artifacts is legal on DNR and National forest lands. Im thinking yes, but I'm sure others might know.

I do know that State parks in WA don't allow keeping over 50 years old. Or is it 100? Yhats why I'm interested in DNR, BLM, and Nat Forests. They seem less restrictive.
 
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Well if you're 75 years young just take the Mud Puppy approach if anyone questions you. Start mumbling incoherently, drooling and wet yourself. They'll leave you alone. :lol:
 
MikeSD said:
..., if i found a 2 hundred year old artifact, gov agents and CNN would show up in 5 minutes. :D....
Click to expand...


Mike, I'm 59 (so a tad younger than you), yet have been md'ing for ~45 yrs. (since 8th grade or so). And I have detected the most balls-to-the-walls sketchy sites. And have had MORE than my share of "scrams" and so-forth. But I have to say this : In all that time, I have NEVER had any govt. archie in a trench coat, pop up from behind a bush or tree, armed with a calculator, to do the math on the age of coins that I've found. No one's ever "sifted through my apron" to split hairs on "artifact" vs "modern" , blah blah.

Not saying to throw caution to the wind. I mean, OF COURSE avoid "obvious historical sensitive monuments". But beyond that, for the middle of BFE, me-thinks you're over-thinking this.

MikeSD said:
...National forest lands. ......
Click to expand...

Actually, NFS isn't disallowed : http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5261774.pdf Oh sure, you can "fret yourself silly" about the cultural heritage issues, "disturbing/altering" verbiage, etc..... Fine, then just stick to sand-boxes. And I got news for you : Even @ sandboxes, wherever you find, I'll bet that if you give me 10 minutes to talk to the powers-that-be, at whatever-entity that is, that I can likewise find someone to pronounce that MikeSD can't do that. I just have to phrase the question correctly with the right words. It's never-ending. See ?

MikeSD said:
...,State parks in WA don't allow keeping over 50 years old. Or is it 100?....
Click to expand...

So too does the state of CA have such boiler plate obligatory minutia. And unless you're snooping around obvious historic sensitive monuments, waltzing over beach blankets at an archie convention, you'd be HARD-PRESSED to find anyone who cares. For example, the state parks over-sea the state run beaches here. Yet you can detect till you're blue in the face (and ... yes .... gasp ... maybe even find coins older than 1969), and ..... no one will ever pay you a moment's notice.

So again: You're over-thinking this. The sky is not falling. Just avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments. And go out and find that ring your wife lost there last week !

MikeSD said:
... I have found it better to overthink, than to underthink....
Click to expand...

Depends on what you mean by "better". And your criteria. If you mean "cool finds", then I'd have to disagree.
 
T-Man said:
Well if you're 75 years young just take the Mud Puppy approach if anyone questions you. Start mumbling incoherently, drooling and wet yourself. They'll leave you alone. :lol:
Click to expand...

No wonder mud-puppy keeps wetting his pants ! Now it all makes perfect sense ! :laughing:
 
kingman mikey said:
....., most city parks ( some require a permit ), .....
Click to expand...


This is actually extremely rare. Very few cities have ever dreamed up such a thing. Like in the entire state of CA, I can think of perhaps 2 cities, and 2 counties, that ever dreamed up such a thing. And even in those locations, the dirty little secret is : No one can ever recall being carded :roll:

But if someone is skittish that there "might be a permit", then they can look at the city revenue dept., or their park dept, where there should be lists of any such available permits. Eg.: garage sale permits, picnic site reservation permits, bounce house permits, fishing permits, street vendor permit, parade permit, etc.... If you don't see "metal detector permit", then presto : It doesn't exist.

For anyone, in any state, who can gallantly show that their city, or some city near them actually has such-&-thing, I'll bet they'd have to acknowledge that the other 200 cities in every direction, have no-such-thing. It's quite rare.
 
Their are some federal land/parks that detecting is absolutely not allowed and you could have your gear confiscates an you could face big fines. Who know they might want a Detector for themselves.
So do your homework.
Doug
 
I believe the State of Washington is a land grant state. That means that the federal government granted some lands to the State of Washington. In the Rockies these are called "school sections", because they were intended to provide funding for the public schools. At Statehood, some States received one school section per Township-Range (usually Section 16 in each Township-Range, which generally contains 36 Sections). Other States received two sections (usually Sections 2 and 16). The State of Utah was blessed with four (Sections 2, 16, 32, and 36). You can generally do stuff on these State Sections. It doesn't necessarily mean that there is an old school on the school section, although there might be one. You can check out the regulations on State lands by hitting the website of the particular State's land management division(s). They likely even have GIS departments and may provide online access to their maps. Most States have agencies such as Wildlife Resources, Geological Survey, Division of Mines and/or Oil&Gas.Some State lands may not be managed by a general State land management agency, but rather by a particular Division of the Department of Natural Resources or even a separate Department. You just have to hit the website for State government to determine how your particular State of interest is organized. Many Eastern States do not have a land grant heritage, particularly if they are one of the original 13 States forming the Constitution. Land grants for Statehood are a post-War to Prevent Southern Independence scheme.

In the Western States most of the federally managed lands are managed by the Bureau of Land Management, the Forest Service (Smokey the Bear) or the Park Service (Woodsy Owl). You can generally also do stuff on these lands, unless there is some particular set-aside (such as archaeological sites), with the exception of the National Park Service. I would be very wary of metal detecting in National Parks. These agencies all have rangers and they have police authority and are armed. I would MD on BLM and NFS lands with little fear of a hassle except when there is a set aside. I wouldn't feel the need to get their permission. I would NOT MD on NPS without permission. The BLM and NFS produce land use maps and you can buy them at State Offices , online and at the District Offices, last I checked. You may be able to view (print?) them for free online. The US Geological Survey also has many interesting, useful modern geological maps and even some vintage 19th Century geological maps. I use BLM maps frequently in the Rockies to determine land use/ownership. The BLM generally manages the low country in the Rockies and the NFS manages the high country. Some areas are managed as federal Wilderness Areas. I don't know how that affects MDing. By and large, you would have to pack the gear in on your back or on horseback in these areas. There are old mines and perhaps even small ghost towns in these.

States may do some lands "horse-trading" with the federal agencies and trade lands for various reasons (such as consolidating a State Park or economic minerals tracts. These exchanges may reflect the goals of some State agencies. There are some tensions between States and the feds over lands and getting development access across federal lands. For instance, the feds control 90% of the lands in the State of Nevada and about 2/3rds of the State of Utah.

There are some other federal agencies that manage federal lands such as the Corp. of Engineers around some large reservoirs, some of which may contain drowned cultural sites that may become exposed during severe droughts.

One other thing! When you go into an area based on an agency map, always check to see if there are roads visible on Google Earth that are not on the agency map. It is sometimes not in the agency's interest to encourage access into the back country and they would rather the road became impassible over time. If you are into history look up RS2477 roads and the hassles over these.

One more thing! If you look at some State Land Use maps you may observe a checkerboard pattern of private lands that follows a railroad right-of-way (such as the Union Pacific Railroad through Southern Wyoming). These are railroad lands. There are lots of them and some are a ways away from the tracks. I have no idea how accessible they are for MDing, but heaven knows who is patrolling them!
 
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Rock Jock said:
I believe the State of Washington is a land grant state. That means that the federal government granted some lands to the State of Washington. In the Rockies these are called "school sections", because they were intended to provide funding for the public schools. At Statehood, some States received one school section per Township-Range (usually Section 16 in each Township-Range, which generally contains 36 Sections). Other States received two sections (usually Sections 2 and 16). The State of Utah was blessed with four (Sections 2, 16, 32, and 36). You can generally do stuff on these State Sections. It doesn't necessarily mean that there is an old school on the school section, although there might be one. You can check out the regulations on State lands by hitting the website of the particular State's land management division(s). They likely even have GIS departments and may provide online access to their maps. Most States have agencies such as Wildlife Resources, Geological Survey, Division of Mines and/or Oil&Gas.Some State lands may not be managed by a general State land management agency, but rather by a particular Division of the Department of Natural Resources or even a separate Department. You just have to hit the website for State government to determine how your particular State of interest is organized. Many Eastern States do not have a land grant heritage, particularly if they are one of the original 13 States forming the Constitution. Land grants for Statehood are a post-War to Prevent Southern Independence scheme.

In the Western States most of the federally managed lands are managed by the Bureau of Land Management, the Forest Service (Smokey the Bear) or the Park Service (Woodsy Owl). You can generally also do stuff on these lands, unless there is some particular set-aside (such as archaeological sites), with the exception of the National Park Service. I would be very wary of metal detecting in National Parks. These agencies all have rangers and they have police authority and are armed. I would MD on BLM and NFS lands with little fear of a hassle except when there is a set aside. I wouldn't feel the need to get their permission. I would NOT MD on NPS without permission. The BLM and NFS produce land use maps and you can buy them at State Offices , online and at the District Offices, last I checked. You may be able to view (print?) them for free online. The US Geological Survey also has many interesting, useful modern geological maps and even some vintage 19th Century geological maps. I use BLM maps frequently in the Rockies to determine land use/ownership. The BLM generally manages the low country in the Rockies and the NFS manages the high country. Some areas are managed as federal Wilderness Areas. I don't know how that affects MDing. By and large, you would have to pack the gear in on your back or on horseback in these areas. There are old mines and perhaps even small ghost towns in these.

States may do some lands "horse-trading" with the federal agencies and trade lands for various reasons (such as consolidating a State Park or economic minerals tracts. These exchanges may reflect the goals of some State agencies. There are some tensions between States and the feds over lands and getting development access across federal lands. For instance, the feds control 90% of the lands in the State of Nevada and about 2/3rds of the State of Utah.

There are some other federal agencies that manage federal lands such as the Corp. of Engineers around some large reservoirs, some of which may contain drowned cultural sites that may become exposed during severe droughts.

One other thing! When you go into an area based on an agency map, always check to see if there are roads visible on Google Earth that are not on the agency map. It is sometimes not in the agency's interest to encourage access into the back country and they would rather the road became impassible over time. If you are into history look up RS2477 roads and the hassles over these.

One more thing! If you look at some State Land Use maps you may observe a checkerboard pattern of private lands that follows a railroad right-of-way (such as the Union Pacific Railroad through Southern Wyoming). These are railroad lands. There are lots of them and some are a ways away from the tracks. I have no idea how accessible they are for MDing, but heaven knows who is patrolling them!
Click to expand...

Rock-jock, thanx for typing all that out. While I don't doubt all the technicalities of everything you wrote (if you consulted enough attorney's and stood on one foot and squinted real hard) , I have to say :

By the time someone frets themselves silly about all of that, splitting hairs of map color codes, blah blah blah, it will eventually come to the point that they'll find a reason to simply stay put in their house. I mean, there's not a speck of public land in the entire USA, that if I studied long enough and hard enough, that I , likewise , couldn't find something that could be construed to say "no".

Naturally, sure, avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments :roll: But beyond that, if you're in the middle of BFE nowhere, then ... ? :?:

And like your RR land musing : This too has come up on the forums before . Eg.: "can I detect along RR track right-of-way ?". And sure as heck, the technicalities get rolled out by others. Then logic prevails and someone else muses: "gee, people walk along RR tracks all the time, and ... no one seems to be raising a fuss" (eg.: kids put pennies on the RR tracks, people walk their dogs, etc....). As if ... md'ing is somehow so evil that it needs special sanctions ?
 
By and large, excluding NPS managed lands (not because I want to, but because of how I know their mindset and how they think they are God on Earth and have too many rangers and wannabes), I have no compunctions about about MDing on public lands, and that includes the railroad lands, if they are accessible. Don't get me started on land use/multiple use issues on public lands. Been there, done that, have the Tee shirt! I've been an outdoorsman in the Rockies for quite a few years. You are wise to become familiar with the land use backdrop in the area that you enjoy. It doesn't hurt to exercise a deft touch and still enjoy your interests. The Karens can't be everywhere, all of the time (yet, tech may change that). All they can do, generally, is ask you to leave. I'm no fan of the Antiquities Act. Many discoveries have been made by lucky and/or talented amateurs/hobbyists because the PhDs couldn't get out there in Lower Slobbovia to find stuff. I DO admire PhDs who like to prospect some. Those are good people. Otherwise, they are like the police, getting there in time to draw a chalkline.

Incidentally, I do respect private property. Some private property is more respectable than others, particularly when there is politics, bureaucracy and tyranny involved.

I might be wrong about Woodsy Owl in my previous comment. He/she/it might be the BLM folksy anthropomorphized agency symbol. If you enter Yellowstone Park from the Gardiner MT North side, the massive cobblestone headgate has a plaque imbedded overhead. It says "For the People". That likely does not include MDists.
 
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Rock Jock said:
.... I have no compunctions about about MDing on public lands, and that includes the railroad lands...
Click to expand...

We're on the same page.

Rock Jock said:
.... I'm no fan of the Antiquities Act....
Click to expand...

I was in one of CA's NFS campgrounds many many years ago, and got spotted by a passing ranger truck. He rolled down his window and says "you can't be doing that here". After some casual conversation, he changed his tune and said "well, you can do it, as long as you bring any old coins you find to the rangers station " (which was ~ 20 miles away in the nearest town). That was the last I ever heard from the guy, and never saw another soul the rest of the day :roll:
 
FWIW, I know there is likely to be some good MDing in Yellowstone Park in spots. There was an old stage line that ran to the Inn area (Old Faithful). It meant some overnight camping in that day. They camped at the same camp sites regularly. There are even graves inside the Park. While hiking with my family in a certain buffalo and bear infested area we came upon an old landfill. I love the way agency management objectives morph through time. I would like to see some hoary old historical maps of the park and its facilities and trails. Many people don't suspect that you can variously lie with mapping. :gaah: We pay these people with our taxes to lie to us. And it's legal to boot!
 
A few years ago I was in St Mary’s Ga and there is a dirt parking lot for people going by boat to Cumberland Island, a National Park. I had been told basically the whole area was open so I was in the parking lot basically digging up trash from the lot. I was approached by a Park Ranger who ordered me to stop.

A senior Ranger was called over who informed me the parking lot was considered to be part of Cumberland Island and therefore off limits. I asked how could an inland piece of land was part of an island but since it was maintained by the Parks Department it was.

They gave me a warning instead of arresting me but they confiscated all of my finds which consisted of a number of crushed cans, bottle caps, pull tabs and $.17.
 
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