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Low Latency in-ear headphones for Nox

wmarcin

New Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
25
Location
Portland, OR
I have seen some good recommendations on circumaural/supra-aural aptX(LL) headphones for metal detecting, but I didn't see anyone mention wireless earbuds that use the low latency BT protocol. I was set on using in-ear headphones, and I wanted a wireless solution. I have a couple of pairs already (QY8, BeatsX), but another forum member (choppadude) pointed out possible issues with inherent sound delay via wireless headphones. The latency difference we're talking about here is 100+ ms (most are 150 - 200 ms) for the non LL headphones, compared to 32 - 36 ms for the aptX(LL) capable headphones. That's not insignificant when we swing, or even pinpoint. The QY8 are actually better that BeatsX in that respect (109 vs. 175 ms), despite much lower price. I tried the QY8's and the delay is barely noticeable (in fact, it's practically negligible). But I wanted to do better, yet, especially if the cost is not prohibitive.

So why do I bother with the in-ear earphones rather than use the really good stock Nox 800 on-ear headphones? For a few practical reasons:

1. Fit and comfort and noise isolation. I have custom earmolds that I use as earplugs and with other headphones I own. They fit most headphones that use standard earbuds. Anyone can have earmolds made by an audiologist, btw. I bet there are some hunters here that already have custom earplugs for hunting. They are snug in my ears, without any pressure points, so they don't fall out, and they isolate external noise really well. I can wear them for hours without discomfort, which is not the case with the one-size fits all solution.

2. They are less conspicuous than on-ear headphones. I prefer that.

3. The on-ear headphones are simply too hot for the 90 degree weather, and it's nearly impossible to wear them and a wide-brim hat together.

There may be others here with similar thoughts, so I thought I'd share.

I spent a good few hours scouring google and amazon for in-ear aptX(LL) headphones, but to no avail. Mostly those generic websites that pry on the specific keywords, and provide generic information and subjective rankings without much logical basis.

However, I was lucky to find this website that evaluates various characteristics of headphones (incl. latency with and without aptX and aptX(LL), if available): https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/active-features/latency

Lo and behold, there is one in-ear aptX(LL) set of headphones listed there: Samsung Level U Pro (https://www.samsung.com/us/audio/he...pro-wireless-headphones-black-eo-bn920cbegus/ https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/samsung/level-u-pro). They have a little band that sits on your neck and runs wires with drivers to your ears. Neither Samsung website nor amazon lists aptX(LL) codec compatibility as one of the features, but I pulled the trigger and purchased a pair based on the results reported by the RTINGS website.

I was not disappointed. They easily paired with my Nox 800, which shows the little + icon next to the Bluetooth one to indicate aptX(LL) pairing. They sit comfortably on the nape, and firmly in my ears (I can run and jump and they don't budge - the wires don't pull on the earmolds). Importantly, they are under $40 on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Bluetooth-Wireless-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B017KE9KOU).

I wasn't able to find any other set of in-ear earphones aptX(LL) capable currently on the market. There are other aptX headphones that claim to be low latency, but some clarify that it is in the 100 - 200 ms range, which might not matter for watching a video (up to 150 ms is fine - our brains deal with it well), but might be noticeable while metal detecting.
 
Apt-x aside:
Well the Samsung one is bluetooth 4.1, the Sennheiser uses bluetooth 4.2, which inherently is faster than 4.1.
What is the highest version of bluetooth that the Nox supports? There is bluetooth 5.0 .. ..
 
The Sennheiser CX 6.00 BT earbuds are APT-X LL and connect as such. I haven't used them yet, but others on different forums really liked them. Not as cheap as the Samsung though. I've been waiting for either another good ebay coupon or another Guitar Center 25 percent off coupon which comes once every month or two.

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-C...8&qid=1534954697&sr=8-3&keywords=sennheiser+6

Great catch, Chris. I missed this one -- it could be because I filtered by the price on Amazon. $100 would be too much for me, personally. Especially if they give me no advantage over Samsung.

Apt-x aside:
Well the Samsung one is bluetooth 4.1, the Sennheiser uses bluetooth 4.2, which inherently is faster than 4.1.
What is the highest version of bluetooth that the Nox supports? There is bluetooth 5.0 .. ..

There is 2.6x faster data transmission on 4.2 (think download/upload speed), I am not aware of shorter latency (think ping in network terms). In short, 4.1, 4.2, or 5.0 don't really affect latency. All aptX(LL) headphones I could find data on ranged between 32-36 ms. ML80s that come with the Nox800 have a delay of 40 ms listed in the manual. WM08 module connects using proprietary streaming technology, not BT, so the delay is 17 ms -- in addition to the delay of the headphones paired with it. I am pretty sure under 50 ms most people won't notice the difference.

Regarding BT protocol used in the Nox: that would be a great question for ML, because neither their user manual nor their website states which one it is. Which makes me think it's 4.1, because 4.2 or 5 would really be an overkill for the purpose, and companies like to tout any "cutting edge" technology they are using.
 
I think the Nox 800 headphone are...not good.
Comfortable, yes, but cheaply made that were broken when I got them, a common issue on many others my dealer tells me, Minelab seemed to know all about it when I called them.
Also they don't sound really clear, to me, anyway.
Right now I use a decent pair of headphones and the WM08 module...supposed to be faster than the headphones.
I will keep looking for decent low latency buds, in the winter I prefer phones that cover my ears.
 
Here are some other options for aptX Low Latency Earbuds:

MEE Audio X8 Secure-Fit Stereo Bluetooth Wireless Sports in-Ear Headphones - https://www.amazon.com/MEE-audio-Secure-Fit-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B01NATYYOV

MEE audio EarBoost EB1 - https://www.amazon.com/MEE-audio-Bluetooth-enhancement-earphones/dp/B07B4MP8TS

Optoma NuForce BE Free8 Truly Wireless - https://www.amazon.com/NuForce-Wire...pID=31R2wTfgDwL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

All taken from Qualcomm's website. They keep the aptX Low Latency list updated pretty much in real time. Everytime I go back there something new is added.

https://www.aptx.com/products?field_aptx_type_tid=484
 
I use the sennheiser 6.00BT earbuds and love them. They are a bit pricey at $99 but not as expensive as some other name brand LL earbuds. I wish I had seen the Samsung ones beforehand.
 
Here are some other options for aptX Low Latency Earbuds:

MEE Audio X8 Secure-Fit Stereo Bluetooth Wireless Sports in-Ear Headphones - https://www.amazon.com/MEE-audio-Secure-Fit-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B01NATYYOV

MEE audio EarBoost EB1 - https://www.amazon.com/MEE-audio-Bluetooth-enhancement-earphones/dp/B07B4MP8TS

Optoma NuForce BE Free8 Truly Wireless - https://www.amazon.com/NuForce-Wire...pID=31R2wTfgDwL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

All taken from Qualcomm's website. They keep the aptX Low Latency list updated pretty much in real time. Everytime I go back there something new is added.

https://www.aptx.com/products?field_aptx_type_tid=484

That's great to know, Chris! I don't know why I didn't think to go directly to the Qualcom website. There some really inexpensive sets out there, like the Levn ones: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2017-new-wireless-sport-bluetooth-waterproof_60657260128.html
 
There is 2.6x faster data transmission on 4.2 (think download/upload speed), I am not aware of shorter latency (think ping in network terms). In short, 4.1, 4.2, or 5.0 don't really affect latency. All aptX(LL) headphones I could find data on ranged between 32-36 ms. ML80s that come with the Nox800 have a delay of 40 ms listed in the manual. WM08 module connects using proprietary streaming technology, not BT, so the delay is 17 ms -- in addition to the delay of the headphones paired with it. I am pretty sure under 50 ms most people won't notice the difference.

Regarding BT protocol used in the Nox: that would be a great question for ML, because neither their user manual nor their website states which one it is. Which makes me think it's 4.1, because 4.2 or 5 would really be an overkill for the purpose, and companies like to tout any "cutting edge" technology they are using.

I believe they state the ML80 as a delay of 40ms, simply because that is the standard for LL, under 40ms.

Hey .. good info you posted though. I'm an audiophile and felt bad I was unable to give a comprehensive overview of it all. I will say this though .. in real world testing, the relatively inexpensive earbuds that I use (see signature), that are not LL, work perfectly fine. The only benefit I see here in using a LL product, is for those that swing very fast, faster than recommended. And even WITHOUT LL in use, I can still "wiggle" close if not dead center on a coin target, no pinpoint button needed.
 
Lo and behold, there is one in-ear aptX(LL) set of headphones listed there: Samsung Level U Pro (https://www.samsung.com/us/audio/he...pro-wireless-headphones-black-eo-bn920cbegus/ https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/samsung/level-u-pro). They have a little band that sits on your neck and runs wires with drivers to your ears. Neither Samsung website nor amazon lists aptX(LL) codec compatibility as one of the features, but I pulled the trigger and purchased a pair based on the results reported by the RTINGS website.

Can you take them off the plastic neck band thing?
 
I believe they state the ML80 as a delay of 40ms, simply because that is the standard for LL, under 40ms.

Hey .. good info you posted though. I'm an audiophile and felt bad I was unable to give a comprehensive overview of it all. I will say this though .. in real world testing, the relatively inexpensive earbuds that I use (see signature), that are not LL, work perfectly fine. The only benefit I see here in using a LL product, is for those that swing very fast, faster than recommended. And even WITHOUT LL in use, I can still "wiggle" close if not dead center on a coin target, no pinpoint button needed.

Thank you. And I agree - I noticed the same with my QY8 - they were just fine for normal swing, and there was almost no difference between external speaker and the headphones. BeatsX were noticeably slower, with perceivable delay. You can swing the Nox pretty fast though, without missing targets. That's where having shorter delay should come pretty handy.

Minelab just got back to me.
The protocol used is 4.1

Cool. As I suspected.

Can you take them off the plastic neck band thing?

No. The controls and on-off switch are built into the band. I thought it would bother me, but I actually like the band. I barely notice it, and it makes the wires and earphones lighter. It's like it shifts the small weight of the headphones from ears (noticeable) to neck (not really noticeable).
 
Great discussion! Thanks for all the input! I'm paying attention! In this Audio primary Sport, super important! A guy cant find what he cant hear...
 
I believe they state the ML80 as a delay of 40ms, simply because that is the standard for LL, under 40ms.

Hey .. good info you posted though. I'm an audiophile and felt bad I was unable to give a comprehensive overview of it all. I will say this though .. in real world testing, the relatively inexpensive earbuds that I use (see signature), that are not LL, work perfectly fine. The only benefit I see here in using a LL product, is for those that swing very fast, faster than recommended. And even WITHOUT LL in use, I can still "wiggle" close if not dead center on a coin target, no pinpoint button needed.

No, most people will definitely prefer LL even at normal sweep speeds--I've tried both. You can compensate by slowing down the swing once you are trying to pinpoint the target, but it can be irritating to experience the lack of "tightness" when it comes to target location with non-LL earphones, at least for me.

These Samsung earbuds seem like a good deal at that price, with LL performance of 37 ms. Just make sure the Nox is really connecting in LL mode (icon).

"5.0 Latency
Default Latency
: 189 ms
aptX Latency
: 177 ms
aptX(LL) Latency
: 36 ms
The Samsung Level U pro have a decent latency if you can get a Bluetooth transmitter that supports aptX or aptX(LL). Without the right dongle, they default to SBC which has about 189 ms of latency which is fairly average for Bluetooth headphones but not suitable for watching a lot of video content or gaming."
 
I recently bought a pair of Bluetooth earbuds for summer metal detecting with my Equinox 800 and they work very well (SoundPEATS Bluetooth , Force Wireless Neckband Magnetic Earbuds, CVC 6.0). No more pooling of sweat in my headphones. They’re also waterproof (IPX 7 waterproof level – drop in water up to 3 ft deep). Almost as an afterthought, I discovered that the earbuds (aptX) were not low latency earbuds but it didn’t seem to make a difference, at least not for me. The headphones that come with the Equinox 800 are aptX low latency to minimize latency differences between the coil detecting a target and you hearing it
I’ve been researching earbuds to use with the Equinox 800 and here is what I’ve found. [This is my usual MO – buy something than research it afterwards.] The Equinox (as of May 2018) is based on Bluetooth version 4.1 with aptX LL (low latency) headphones and will work with any version 4 Bluetooth headphones or earbuds (e.g., 4.2). Bluetooth version 4.2 is 2.6x faster than version 4.0 or 4.1 (Throughput; 0.8 vs 0.3 Gb/s). Bluetooth version 5 is 1.4x faster than version 4.2 (1.4 vs 0.8 Gb/s). Bluetooth version 5 is backward compatible but numerous version 5 capabilities would not be available (e.g., increased distance).
When it comes to latency between target location and coil location/detection, it makes perfect sense to choose the earbuds with the shortest latency and in this regards the newest version of Bluetooth. The ideal fit would be earbuds with the latest version of Bluetooth, 5.0, coupled with aptX low latency. In addition, I do a lot of water hunting as well as sweating and earbuds that are waterproof would get my vote.

A quick search revealed Bluetooth earbuds (version 4.1 or newer) for about $20 - $80, depending on features. This search was made July 2019 and there appear to be numerous earbuds available that are version 4.1 or better, low latency and waterproof.
They provide a great back-up for your regular Bluetooth headphones and are an ideal way to travel with your detector and avoid lost or stolen headphones. And if you’re a summer hunter like me, waterproof earbuds are the way to go.

Happy Hunting
 
So these are good for the Equinox 600? Cheers
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So these are good for the Equinox 600? Cheers
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Yes, the Sennheiser CX 6.00 BT earbuds work with the EQ600 and EQ800 - they pair easily, have good run time starting from full charge, good sound quality, and definitely work in Low Latency mode (the headphone/Bluetooth/+ symbol is displayed when properly paired). I do own them, but no longer use the Sennheiser earbuds with my Equinox, mainly because I can’t get them to stay in my ears. They come with multiple tips of different sizes like most earbuds, but none of them work for me - I constantly had to fiddle with the earbuds to keep them in place. In no time, one or the other would slowly slide out of position or pop completely out again. The control boxes that dangle down from your ears don’t help the situation, as their weight actively pulls on the earbuds too. For me, earbuds with “ear hangers” or other stabilizing mechanism is needed, especially if sweat is a factor (standard earbuds slide out of a slick ear canal even more easily).
 
Yes, the Sennheiser CX 6.00 BT earbuds work with the EQ600 and EQ800 - they pair easily, have good run time starting from full charge, good sound quality, and definitely work in Low Latency mode (the headphone/Bluetooth/+ symbol is displayed when properly paired). I do own them, but no longer use the Sennheiser earbuds with my Equinox, mainly because I can’t get them to stay in my ears. They come with multiple tips of different sizes like most earbuds, but none of them work for me - I constantly had to fiddle with the earbuds to keep them in place. In no time, one or the other would slowly slide out of position or pop completely out again. The control boxes that dangle down from your ears don’t help the situation, as their weight actively pulls on the earbuds too. For me, earbuds with “ear hangers” or other stabilizing mechanism is needed, especially if sweat is a factor (standard earbuds slide out of a slick ear canal even more easily).
Cheers. There's a pair brand new $90 damaged box. Might try for $80

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