oldkoot
Elite Member
Exactly you hit the nail on the head
Detector testers.
- Thread starter ghound
- Start date
Exactly you hit the nail on the head
Rattlehead
Forum Supporter
Couldn’t agree more. Way too many variables involved to say one detector is better than another simply because you found something at a heavily hunted site. The only way to make an accurate comparison is testing both detectors on the same target, on the same day.
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Monte
"In Memory of"
AND with both using the same, or very similar, search coils, mode and settings.
My current Detector Team are 1-Tone, 2-Tone, 3-Tone or 5-Tone. They ought to be compared with a similar tone choice, if possible, and not a "Full-Tones" type selection or something quite different.
Monte
And don't forget taking careful notes to reference your results later on.
Hunting with 2 detectors at one time while taking notes as to each machine's setting, VDI readings, etc. is tedious as heck and nowhere near as much fun as just hunting like normal. It almost turns metal detecting into work. Don't ask me how I know.
Cherry Picker
Forum Supporter
What bothered me was why the testers never mentioned little issues like the AT Pro coil falsing when bumped, or that while the DFX arguably has the best VDI system on the market, the out of the box programs do not compare with the depth of the Minelab FBSs? Just examples. These issues only came to the public once the detectors we in the hands of the public.
Monte
"In Memory of"
Notes are always useful!mh9162013: said:
For many decades I have done this with 2 to 4 detectors and yes, it does take patience and time. I had both, plus the desire to learn whatever i could.
Monte
Monte
"In Memory of"
If someone looks, they can find an issue with any detector on the market. Some might be minor, but some folks do 'un-observe' some obvious glitches, if you know what I mean.Detector: said:
I will argue, or at least disagree, about the DFX. It fell way short of matching the overall field performance of the XLT, even though it use the same Signagraph display.
With any and all detectors we have our our personal likes and dislikes and need the detector in-hand to compare.
Monte
ToySoldier
Forum Supporter
Even then, with everything held the same, interpreting the same audio information is highly subjective and not everybody will react to the same hint of a good signal on the first swing or two. Two different machines can report that promising signal in their own way, but there's something about the audio on one machine that perks up the ears of the user more than the other machine. Not anything objectively better. Just different.
Bottom line is you need to get the coil over the target. Think about the size of a coin, especially a dime or cent. Even if you grid a small area and overlap your swing, think about how many "coin size" areas you might not have gotten your coil over. Not getting your coil over one square inch is all it takes to miss a coin sized target, especially if it has any depth. Anytime I see the "no other machine could detect it" remark, I instantly think it's simply because the coil never made it over the target. I often see detectorist swinging with 2,3,4 inch gaps in their so-called "overlap". Sure, some machines are a little deeper or separate better and that could factor in.
I dug a 4" merc detected with my ATPro in clean ground. I previously pounded this place with a Deus and Equinox. No way the Nox or Deus missed it. I missed it by not getting the coil over it. This is why I go over the same place more than once.
I also think when someone gets a new detector they are taking their time, going slower, and paying more attention trying to learn the detector. This leads to digging more questionable targets that they might not dig otherwise. I do this myself.
I dug a 4" merc detected with my ATPro in clean ground. I previously pounded this place with a Deus and Equinox. No way the Nox or Deus missed it. I missed it by not getting the coil over it. This is why I go over the same place more than once.
I also think when someone gets a new detector they are taking their time, going slower, and paying more attention trying to learn the detector. This leads to digging more questionable targets that they might not dig otherwise. I do this myself.
Martin_V3i
Elite Member
"I also think when someone gets a new detector they are taking their time, going slower, and paying more attention trying to learn the detector. This leads to digging more questionable targets that they might not dig otherwise. I do this myself."
I do too, yet I have one very small area bordering a small playground where some 1890 amusement event was rumored to have happened, and me, and at a minimum of 6 solid tectors and good machines, hit it over many years. I hunted it with my Equinox and 11" coil of course, but after I got the 6" Nox coil I went back and found a Mercury dime, no more than 6 inches, on the very first hunt with the 6. That small perimeter by the tot lot with cement sidewalks around it is small. No way those other hunters coils did not go right over that target multiple times. Maybe they were running hot, looking for very deep stuff. I did that a lot myself. Point is, a round or elliptical coil can detect peripheral areas around the physical dimensions of the coils, especially moderate to shallow. That 6" Nox coil is very good at sending out a halo, extending a 6" path. I had a 4x6 Eclipse Whites coil that was like that.
There is fudge room for not centering a coil over small targets.
ToySoldier
Forum Supporter
Agree 100%. I've seen more than a few videos of people talking about 'pounding' some spot and then when you see video of their actual technique their coverage and detection quality is awful because they're walking too fast and wandering aimlessly. I sometimes wander and go too fast, but I don't make YouTube videos claiming some detector found something another couldn't without a direct comparison.
Another possibility is not thoroughly rescanning a spot for now unmasked targets after removing an object or even just disturbing the soil. The next person comes along, or you return with a different detector, and easily find the unmasked target.
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longbow62
Forum Supporter
You will never get me to believe all coins are just missed, and someone just failed to get a coil over them from the right direction or swing speed. Some yes, but not the majority. I've seen otherwise way to many times for that to be a legitimate theory. If that's the case recovery speed and depth mean nothing. I'll never buy into it.
atomicbrh
Elite Member
Sometimes coins are found in "hunted out" areas just due to a city worker cutting grass on a lower deck setting than intended or severe drought conditions killing the grass down to almost bare dirt. Those conditions can allow swinging as much as 2 inches closer to reveal another layer of coins.
ToySoldier
Forum Supporter
Nobody is saying all or even most missed coins are the result of not getting the coil over it. I've done head to head tests pre-dig and some detectors hit some targets better than others. It's clearly the case that some detectors perform better than others in certain situations, and some are as good or better than others in nearly every situation.
My problem is with unsupported claims that whatever detector they're using in the video was uniquely able to find the coin dug in the video. It might be true, but there's A LOT of scenarios to explain why they haven't dug that signal in the past. If you want to make that claim, then bring the other detector.
longbow62
Forum Supporter
I get what your saying about if they are going to claim that in a video why not prove it. Fair enough.
longbow62
Forum Supporter
I've got a Deus II on pre-order. You better believe when it arrives I'll be taking it to my most hunted out places. Just like I did with the Equinox which at the time I was very skeptical about. Actually that's what sold me on the Equinox. Seeing what it could do at places where finding another silver coin was all but impossible. It actually lived up to the hype in my opinion.
Cherry Picker
Forum Supporter
That is the testing I'm waiting to see.
I've had some weird results at a few sites that just don't make sense. We have an old carnival grounds site from the early 1900s to 1930s. My hunting buddies and I took our DFXs there first back in the early 2000s. Found many many great coins like Indian Heads, V-nickels, barbers and brass rings we guess were probably carnival prizes. We hunted it for several years hard. Lots of rusted bottle caps as you can imagine. We figured there were lots of coins being masked by these caps. The average coin was around 6" deep.
After we got to the point it was no longer giving up for the DFX we stopped. I later got a Deus, CTX3030, E-Trac, Equinox 800, and have been over the same site with a fine toothed comb. Not a thing. How could them old DFXs have cleaned out even the masked stuff? Makes no sense. I still take every new detector there but have yet to find anything missed.
You've no doubt heard me talk about our 130+ year old city park. Many coins are still there very deep and masked by rusted iron. I take every new detector there to see if I can get any more depth. While masked coins are there, the real treasure is in more depth. I took the Deus & Equinox 800 there and each was able to pull a few masked coins, nothing really older than the 40s, but nothing on those very deep ones. I can to this day take my E-Trac down there and pull a few of the deep coins in the 9"-10" range. I just don't see any advancement in raw depth. Better unmasking abilities thanks to faster processors, but no improvement in raw depth.
Another anomaly is the site of Fort Atkinson from the 1850s. Over 40 years we've found many good relics and 3 coins. I have taken every new detector down there as well hoping to unmask a goodie or two from all the iron. Deus, CTX3030, Equinox 800 found the occasionally missed musket ball, but nothing from the main fort area we have pounded over that 40 years. I take my Simplex down there and pull 5-6 balls out of the old main area almost every time? Doesn't make sense.
longbow62
Forum Supporter
Your right it makes no sense. I have a pure iron site where the only coins found there were a 1851 seated dime and 1867 2 Cent. Both were found with a Whites XLT. I had just got back into detecting at the time, and took my old XLT. I didn't own another detector or know anybody who did. A few buttons have been found with a Deus and Equinox since. Not one coin with any other detector. Seems impossible that I found the only two detectable coins there with a Whites XLT.
Well I hate to say this and may get hell for it but there's a decent chance you could go there with another detector, even an inexpensive one and find something. I know once when a buddy buried coins for a birthday party search, one silver quarter on edge wasn't found. We both couldn't find it with $600+ machines (probably because of disc settings) and he later found it with a tracker-4..
I've always said if I lose my wallet and someone returns everything but the cash then I would be happy. But if I find anything with a name then I feel I need to to give it all back or it's like stealing. No name then it's mine.
