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  #21  
Old 06-20-2020, 03:28 PM
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Tom, here is our letter, thought you’d find it amusing. Small screwdriver, hand held shovel “similar”, no?

1. You will only use your metal detector in areas where you are not interfering with other park patrons. This includes but is not limited to: ball fields, shelters and/or similar public areas.
2. You will not use your detector in any recreation areas such as: swimming pools, splash pads, golf courses, food areas, playgrounds, etc.
3. You will not disturb turf, grass, sod or any other plant material in the park. You are permitted to probe with a small screwdriver or similar device. Please be extremely cautious not to contact any buried utilities.
4. You will fill all holes before leaving the area.
5. You will relinquish anything of historical value to Allegheny County.
6. You will help keep the parks clean by disposing of any rubbish you may come across during your activity.
7. You will always carry this letter with you as verification of your permission to use a metal detector while engaged in this activity.
8. You will surrender this letter and cease your activity if you violate any of the above conditions or any park polices, rules and regulations. You also understand that violations may incur additional penalties.

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  #22  
Old 06-24-2020, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Diabolik View post
Tom, here is our letter, thought you’d find it amusing. Small screwdriver, hand held shovel “similar”, no?

1. You will only use your metal detector in areas where you are not interfering with other park patrons. This includes but is not limited to: ball fields, shelters and/or similar public areas.
2. You will not use your detector in any recreation areas such as: swimming pools, splash pads, golf courses, food areas, playgrounds, etc.
3. You will not disturb turf, grass, sod or any other plant material in the park. You are permitted to probe with a small screwdriver or similar device. Please be extremely cautious not to contact any buried utilities.
4. You will fill all holes before leaving the area.
5. You will relinquish anything of historical value to Allegheny County.
6. You will help keep the parks clean by disposing of any rubbish you may come across during your activity.
7. You will always carry this letter with you as verification of your permission to use a metal detector while engaged in this activity.
8. You will surrender this letter and cease your activity if you violate any of the above conditions or any park polices, rules and regulations. You also understand that violations may incur additional penalties.
no disturbing the grass!!!
That should eliminate any walking or running or golf, soccer, or and other activity.

Good luck. You grass disturber.....
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2020, 09:21 PM
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In Kansas and Missouri I had to deal with a few counties or cities that had permits.
The main one I hunted was my local county that had a ton of beautiful, and treasure laden, parks cost $6 for the year from Jan 1st through Dec 31 so I always got mine early in January to take full advantage.
In the parks that were covered I culled many hundreds of dollars in coins and a few thousand dollars in gold and silver jewelry so I was always fine with it.
There were a few other areas I needed permits too but they were easy to get and always free.
I carried them with me and I was asked for them a few times, nicely, and always complied and once a few rangers got to know me I wasn't asked for them again.
Usually we had some nice conversations in our interactions too, they were curious and I had a few chances to educate them on this hobby.

One county had a permit and I was at one of their parks when a young ranger approached me and told me I couldn't hunt in any of their parks.
I smiled and said "Uh, actually I can", and pulled out the permit and showed him.
He read it and was surprised, he had no idea about any of those rules or that this hobby was even permitted in his parks so another educational opportunity.
After another pleasant conversation he was educated and he said I was good to go and went on his way.
I saw him a couple of times at a few other parks in his jurisdiction and those times he just smiled and waved when he recognized me.
Can't count how much great treasure I found at a few of his parks over time.

Kansas City outlawed hunting in all of their parks for awhile but our club got involved and had that ban overturned, as long as we went by some very sensible rules that I fully agreed with hunting was legal everywhere again and neither I nor anyone else was ever hassled that I knew of.

One small city had the stupid rule that you could hunt and scan but you couldn't dig anything, only pick up surface targets.
Totally frustrating and stupid idea so once I found out about this I never went back to that city again.
Never thought about that city or their crummy parks after that, I had dozens more all over the place that welcomed me and where I could ply my trade.

I could have gotten mad and frustrated at all this rule and permit stuff, resisted it and fought the good fight for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness but that seemed illogical and if I did I am sure those pleasant encounters I had with cops and park rangers would have ended differently...but I saw no sense in that.
There was no win-win situation possible if I took that route in my mind so I complied.
The result...I had a three year joyful experience hunting all over that state and so many places in Missouri, also.
These counties and cities had their rules and I played by them and because of that I thoroughly enjoyed myself every time I went out hunting the whole time I lived out west.
Total cost to me for three years was $18 and a few minutes spent online going to a few websites and printing out free permits.
Considering everything I found I ended up with way, way more than any of these places ever asked of me.
Well worth it, I say...THAT is what I call a win-win situation.

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Last edited by DIGGER27; 06-24-2020 at 09:37 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-24-2020, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DIGGER27 View post
....
Well worth it, I say...THAT is what I call a win-win situation.
A "win-win" situation would be where there is no rule or permit at all. Ie.: Silent on the subject. If not disallowed, then presto, not disallowed. Right ?

Since when do we need an express "permit" ? No more than I need a "permit" to fly a kite or pick my nose, etc......
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  #25  
Old 06-24-2020, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
A "win-win" situation would be where there is no rule or permit at all. Ie.: Silent on the subject. If not disallowed, then presto, not disallowed. Right ?

Since when do we need an express "permit" ? No more than I need a "permit" to fly a kite or pick my nose, etc......
Don't agree, you are wrong, it was just a little easy to get permit.
Flying kites or any of those other ridiculous extrapolations have nothing to do with it.
Don't apply your skewed world view to me because I don't think like you and I am supremely happy that I don't, or ever did.
I enjoyed myself immensly, I had no issues, no frustrations, no confrontations that would have ruined my day or my time spent in this hobby out west for 3 years.
If I had your attitude and mindset it would have been a whole frustratingly different story.
This permit stuff had no negative effect on me at all, evidently it bothers you to the extreme and for that I am sorry.

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  #26  
Old 06-24-2020, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DIGGER27 View post
Don't agree, you are wrong...don't apply your skewed world view to me because I don't think like you and I am supremely happy that I don't, or ever did.
I enjoyed myself immensly, I had no issues, no frustrations, no confrontations that would have ruined my day or my time spent in this hobby out west for 3 years.
If I had your attitude and mindset it would have been a whole frustratingly different story.
This permit stuff had no negative effect on me at all, evidently it bothers you to the extreme and for that I am sorry.

Every thing you are saying is utterly true, as long as we start with a given premise: That md'ing is inherently wrong, harmful, evil, etc..... If so, then yes: It *should* be a "permitted" thing (like gun control, and other dangerous things). Ok, in that case, if we can assume that md'ing enters into those arenas, then yes: Everything you're saying does indeed logically follow.
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  #27  
Old 06-24-2020, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Every thing you are saying is utterly true, as long as we start with a given premise: That md'ing is inherently wrong, harmful, evil, etc..... If so, then yes: It *should* be a "permitted" thing (like gun control, and other dangerous things). Ok, in that case, if we can assume that md'ing enters into those arenas, then yes: Everything you're saying does indeed logically follow.
Uh huh.
You need a license to drive, or to own a dog.
Sometimes the world has rules...so what?

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  #28  
Old 06-25-2020, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DIGGER27 View post
Uh huh.
You need a license to drive, or to own a dog.
Sometimes the world has rules...so what?
Sure. But in 99.9% of the world, no-such-license exists for md'ing (like it does for dog-ownership or driving cars). Then why isn't that 99.9% of the world "preferred" ? Why would I "prefer" that there be a license for my chosen hobby ? Much better that it simply be silent on the subject, hence not disallowed. Right ?

The moment any place ever dreams up "permits", is the moment that it enters silly-ness world. You'll frequently notice silly wording like "yes but you can't dig", or "not within 10 ft. of any tree", or "turn in all valuables to city hall", or "digger tool shall not exceed 3" in length", blah blah.

And worse yet, you'll also notice that any cities that ever dreamed up "permits" will often-time revoke the system entirely a few years later, and disallow md'ing entirely. Why ? Because it's perpetually on their radar as something to think of and monitor. So sure as heck, one year someone there thinks "Gee, do we really want all these yahoos out there digging up the park ?"

Hence the LESS they think of us, the better. Why would anyone want "permits" ? Thus it is better if it is merely silent on the subject. We don't need "express allowances", as if what we are doing is somehow inherently dangerous or harmful.
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  #29  
Old 06-25-2020, 09:58 AM
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We all agree we don't necessarily need "permission" to MD, but I do believe there needs to be some rules or expectations set forth. Maybe you don't think they apply to you, but they are still needed. I've only visited 2 of the 9 county parks here so far and I have already seen evidence that there are ignorant MD'ers operating in said parks. On my first visit to one of the larger, older parks I followed one of the hiking trails to visit a couple of hidden (what appeared to be abandoned) groves to see what I could find. After only being there a few minutes I quickly realized that somebody had recently been hunting there and left fully open holes all around the grove well in site of the trail. I encountered a few people walking by on the trail the short time I was there. Needless to say I did not stick around very long. This had to be one of two things...... 1) it was some novice that was oblivious to the #1 rule of MD'ing (Fill your holes)! or 2) it was a veteran MD'er that thought the rules do not apply to him/her and figured nobody was going to see what they did. Either way, I don't want this person hunting in the parks I visit. This sort of behavior is what is going to get us kicked out. Who knows, had this person gotten a permit and read the few basic requirements of hunting in the park, this might have been avoided. Filling your holes seems like common sense regardless of where you dig, but even this simple idea eludes some. Even the user's manual for my $99 Bounty Hunter covered these basic principles.

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  #30  
Old 06-25-2020, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Diabolik View post
... (Fill your holes)...
Diabolik, ok, let's assume I agree with all your post. And so, thus ....

1) Sure .... "let's all fill our holes and leave no trace". Presto, so can we abandon this silly talk of "permits" then ? I mean, for pete's sake, do you think "permits" are going to SOLVE the issue of the couple of sloppy md'rs who leave holes ? NO !! IT'S ONLY going to bring them "front and center for scrutiny" to make bureaucracy be "on the lookout" and "perpetually think of" such people. And all the more reason for them to UN-PERMIT it. So how in the heck does "permits" solve this ? IT DOESN'T . Either way, we md'rs need to be neat and clean. Permits doesn't solve that. And only makes it worse, not better.

2) I am willing to bet that your observation of holes , that you saw, was probably NOT something that the average passer-by (yes, even city-employee and cop people) would have noticed. It's only evident to us mdr's because (drum-roll) : We're md'rs.

For example: When I met my wife and was just in the dating stage, I told her of my hobby. And she could never recall, in her 30-ish years of existence, EVER having seen someone md'ing. She kind of understood the concept, yet could never recall having actually seen anyone md'ing in all of her life. Versus me, .... if I'm driving along, and see someone md'ing, I immediately notice them. And my wife, if she's driving with me, never even sees them. Why ? Because she's simply not into it.

See ? We md'rs are drawn to notice such things (a scar in the grass, an md'r 1000 yards off to the left, etc...). Yet someone who's not into it, I'll bet they don't even notice.

In psychology this is known as "projection". So whatever scar or divot you're seeing (and immediately laying at the blame of another md'r), the next average passerby is probably most likely not even seeing.
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  #31  
Old 06-25-2020, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Diabolik, ok, let's assume I agree with all your post. And so, thus ....

1) Sure .... "let's all fill our holes and leave no trace". Presto, so can we abandon this silly talk of "permits" then ? I mean, for pete's sake, do you think "permits" are going to SOLVE the issue of the couple of sloppy md'rs who leave holes ? NO !! IT'S ONLY going to bring them "front and center for scrutiny" to make bureaucracy be "on the lookout" and "perpetually think of" such people. And all the more reason for them to UN-PERMIT it. So how in the heck does "permits" solve this ? IT DOESN'T . Either way, we md'rs need to be neat and clean. Permits doesn't solve that. And only makes it worse, not better.

2) I am willing to bet that your observation of holes , that you saw, was probably NOT something that the average passer-by (yes, even city-employee and cop people) would have noticed. It's only evident to us mdr's because (drum-roll) : We're md'rs.

For example: When I met my wife and was just in the dating stage, I told her of my hobby. And she could never recall, in her 30-ish years of existence, EVER having seen someone md'ing. She kind of understood the concept, yet could never recall having actually seen anyone md'ing in all of her life. Versus me, .... if I'm driving along, and see someone md'ing, I immediately notice them. And my wife, if she's driving with me, never even sees them. Why ? Because she's simply not into it.

See ? We md'rs are drawn to notice such things (a scar in the grass, an md'r 1000 yards off to the left, etc...). Yet someone who's not into it, I'll bet they don't even notice.

In psychology this is known as "projection". So whatever scar or divot you're seeing (and immediately laying at the blame of another md'r), the next average passerby is probably most likely not even seeing.

A sloppy experienced metal detector? No, a permit is probably not going to do anything to stop it. A newbie that just bought their detector at a big box store and is heading to the park without any clue about the hobby, maybe it will help educate them a little and prevent them from becoming another slob in the park.

So by your account, we need not fill our holes. Unless another MD’er falls in it, we’re golden as nobody else will know who or what created the hole.....

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