Help ID this cartridge case!
- Thread starter gseuser
- Start date
azdirtdigger
Elite Member
Looks like an old black powder cartridge. No date stamped on it. Someone with more knowledge will probably be able to tell you what it is. Still a nice find.
Here is an old 45-70 Calvary cartridge I found. It is dated 1878. Looks very similar, but different size.
http://metaldetectingforum.com/picture.php?albumid=1623&pictureid=18127
Here is an old 45-70 Calvary cartridge I found. It is dated 1878. Looks very similar, but different size.
http://metaldetectingforum.com/picture.php?albumid=1623&pictureid=18127
waltr
Elite Member
Maybe Lip Stick tube.
achaios
Forum Supporter
2x on lipstick tube. I don't see a spot for a primer, and I don't remember any centerfire that worked like a rimfire. I'm not an expert on ammunition, so I could be wrong (it's been known to happen).
-- Tom
-- Tom
RBachman
Forum Supporter
I'm thinking it's a 52-70 early Sharps. Is it all copper?
gseuser
Elite Member
It is all copper. However, when I looked up the dimensions I don't think it is a 52-70.
gseuser
Elite Member
I don't think it is a lipstick case. If you look towards the base you see that little ring. It's on that 45-70 casing too.
RBachman
Forum Supporter
Double check the measurements you looked up. There were several different lengths for the Sharps 52-70 and some of it depended on when the 50-70's were re-conditioned/modified. I've seen 3 or 4 lengths for the same round, so it's all a Google guess right now.
The copper casings were used initially and brass came later.
azdirtdigger
Elite Member
It is a black powder casing. Here is an end view of the casing pictured above. See no primer. Casings I found from the 1880's had primers.
waltr
Elite Member
This is interesting.
I did some searches on Sharps 52-70 and found info on the origins of cartridges.
There were some very early ones that were center fire and not primer. The priming charge was inside the case.
Also found info about various length cartridges for early Sharps rifles, mainly one converted from using paper cartridge to using metal cartridge. Some were just over 1 1/2 inch long.
In all the pictures of very early cartridges none had that ring just above the rim/head. Guessing maybe this ring was created upon firing the cartridge were it took the shape of the chamber.
Still unsure but has good possibility of being a very early cartridge.
I did some searches on Sharps 52-70 and found info on the origins of cartridges.
There were some very early ones that were center fire and not primer. The priming charge was inside the case.
Also found info about various length cartridges for early Sharps rifles, mainly one converted from using paper cartridge to using metal cartridge. Some were just over 1 1/2 inch long.
In all the pictures of very early cartridges none had that ring just above the rim/head. Guessing maybe this ring was created upon firing the cartridge were it took the shape of the chamber.
Still unsure but has good possibility of being a very early cartridge.
RBachman
Forum Supporter
I sent the pics to a friend of mine that's spent most of his life researching and studying Civil War artifacts. His opinion is that this is a Benet internally primed case, which the US Army/Cavalry used in the 1870s. Many liked it were recovered at little bighorn. Here are a couple of pages from one of his reference books. The diagram depicts a Benet type primed cartridge. The cartridges were in a fairly significant transition at the time and many existing weapons were modified to keep up with technology. There were also a number of various lengths. The crimps on the bottom of the case are to secure the internal primer and not from firing. However, the copper casings were soft and difficult to remove from singly shot breach loaders. Later they used brass that better stood up to the pressures and made it easier to extract and the crimps went away on later rounds.
...so I am told.
...so I am told.
Attachments
Mud-puppy
Forum Supporter
What a great mystery solved! Dang! none of us woulda known anything about this obscure 'internal primer' style cartridge if you had not have found one!
Good Job Team Friendly! Props to RBachman for the extra point effort!!
Good Job Team Friendly! Props to RBachman for the extra point effort!!
waltr
Elite Member
Wow, that is a very old casing.
Good detective work finding info on this obscure case.
I did read about the internal primer but didn't see any drawings. That cut away drawing is exactly what we needed and explains the crimp ring near the base.
Great historical find.
Good detective work finding info on this obscure case.
I did read about the internal primer but didn't see any drawings. That cut away drawing is exactly what we needed and explains the crimp ring near the base.
Great historical find.
gseuser
Elite Member
I guess this confirms that! Awesome thank you very much for the help!!!
