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  #1  
Old 08-12-2018, 10:58 PM
DigginLikeADog DigginLikeADog is offline
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Default Colonial Woodlot - Buckle w/ Royal Crown

Hi All -

I was out hunting in a local woodlot today here in Connecticut. I got a great signal and pulled this piece of ornate buckle out of the ground. I could tell it looked like it had some detail on it, but it was too covered in mud to tell. I searched for the rest but couldn't seem to pick it up.

Once I got it home but I was really surprised to see what looks like a Royal Crown and two cherubs playing horns. I'll be going back very soon to see what else is around.

Has anyone seen a buckle with this design before, or maybe have some ideas of what it might have been used for? This may be way out on a limb, but I would think something like this would have been worn by somebody important..

Any info or comments are welcome!

Thanks and Happy Hunting!
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2018, 07:49 AM
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Ive never seen anything like it on a buckle, though ive seen some similar buttons. Great find! I love hunting random woods, some of the only untouched ground is found in spots no-one would even attempt to hunt. Looking forward to follow up posts, great find!

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  #3  
Old 08-13-2018, 08:53 AM
waltr waltr is online now
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Interesting find. Some observations:
It seems to be about 1 1/4 inches wide. Is this wide enough for a buckle?

There looks to be two 'cuts' on a diagonal, they go through the wings of the cherubs. Why are they there?

Are the ends rough from being broken?
What does the back look like?

Last is you have it with crown up which should be the way it was worn.

Love a mystery piece and then learning what it is.
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  #4  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:38 AM
DigginLikeADog DigginLikeADog is offline
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Originally Posted by cellrdwellr View post
Ive never seen anything like it on a buckle, though ive seen some similar buttons. Great find! I love hunting random woods, some of the only untouched ground is found in spots no-one would even attempt to hunt. Looking forward to follow up posts, great find!

I find my best and oldest finds where no one else dares to go!

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  #5  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:48 AM
DigginLikeADog DigginLikeADog is offline
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Originally Posted by waltr View post
Interesting find. Some observations:
It seems to be about 1 1/4 inches wide. Is this wide enough for a buckle?

There looks to be two 'cuts' on a diagonal, they go through the wings of the cherubs. Why are they there?

Are the ends rough from being broken?
What does the back look like?

Last is you have it with crown up which should be the way it was worn.

Love a mystery piece and then learning what it is.
All questions I keep asking myself! Close on the size- it’s 1”H x 1.5”W (probably should have included that to begin with.
The back is plain and smooth. The bottoms of the side pieces are concave half circles, like it was built to act as a hinge, but broke.

IRelics like this are what keep me going! Love the history

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  #6  
Old 08-13-2018, 11:15 AM
waltr waltr is online now
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More thoughts:

Thinking of the crown, maybe this type of crown and the symbols in it will help ID a county. This might give hint.

Yea, I can just see the concave on the left end. More interesting that it would 'hinge' there. Or maybe that is for the chape to pivot in.
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  #7  
Old 08-13-2018, 11:19 AM
HuntinDog HuntinDog is offline
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Is there any holes in the ends to have the pin through to hold the tang?
I also don't see any wear from where the tang would hit under the crown.
It would be good to have other views.
Sides and back, sometime we see things that you miss or weren't looking for.

Very cool relic none the less

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  #8  
Old 08-13-2018, 02:15 PM
DigginLikeADog DigginLikeADog is offline
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Originally Posted by HuntinDog View post
Is there any holes in the ends to have the pin through to hold the tang?
I also don't see any wear from where the tang would hit under the crown.
It would be good to have other views.
Sides and back, sometime we see things that you miss or weren't looking for.

Very cool relic none the less
Here are pics of the side and back. Thanks for taking a look. Hoping to get back to that same spot again soon to see if there is any more
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  #9  
Old 08-13-2018, 02:32 PM
HuntinDog HuntinDog is offline
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Ok
Thank you for the additional pictures.
Now we can see that the BUCKLE broke at the cross pin.
This is most likely the back half, so no wear from the tang/prong.
Hope you can find the other half.
Good luck

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  #10  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:02 PM
Massmaps Massmaps is offline
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Default Your 18th Century Shoebuckle Find

RE: Your 18th Century Shoebuckle Find

You wanted to know if someone important used this item. Well....if you think the colonists who built and founded this great nation of ours are important, then you have. This is a mid-18th Century Shoe buckle made of brass, it was probably gilded, sometimes it was tin washed or silver plated, but mostly gilded. The figures on the buckle are English, the crown depicted is the English Crown of St. Edwards most often depicted upon 18th century military buttons and the like. The other figures portray an allegory or allusion to a great event happening; the cherubs are blowing trumpets heralding a great occasion. given the estimated time frame of the production of this buckle, my analysis is that this is a souvenir of the coronation of King George III in 1760. I collect 18th century shoe buckles, I became fascinated when I dug a few in Virginia many years ago and have found many at flea market in new England, also in the ground. I have seen thousands of shoebuckles in museums and online. Your buckle is very uncommon. I have never seen one with this design which leads me to believe it was a low production, so perhaps this is a sole survivor. The person who owned this was probably a tradesman or merchant, prosperous enough to spring for the buckle. If it were a rich man's buckle it would have been made of silver or silver and quartz/glass jewels or for the richest, gold. The reason I can say it is a shoe buckle and not a knee buckle is that the orientation of the buckle and the drilled portions where the inner working or chape is. In a knee buckle the center pin is oriented to the length of the buckle, whereas the pin on a shoebuckle is oriented to the width of the buckle. Do please try to go out and find the other half, this is an important find for an American site. Great recovery. Massmaps
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  #11  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Massmaps View post
RE: Your 18th Century Shoebuckle Find

You wanted to know if someone important used this item. Well....if you think the colonists who built and founded this great nation of ours are important, then you have. This is a mid-18th Century Shoe buckle made of brass, it was probably gilded, sometimes it was tin washed or silver plated, but mostly gilded. The figures on the buckle are English, the crown depicted is the English Crown of St. Edwards most often depicted upon 18th century military buttons and the like. The other figures portray an allegory or allusion to a great event happening; the cherubs are blowing trumpets heralding a great occasion. given the estimated time frame of the production of this buckle, my analysis is that this is a souvenir of the coronation of King George III in 1760. I collect 18th century shoe buckles, I became fascinated when I dug a few in Virginia many years ago and have found many at flea market in new England, also in the ground. I have seen thousands of shoebuckles in museums and online. Your buckle is very uncommon. I have never seen one with this design which leads me to believe it was a low production, so perhaps this is a sole survivor. The person who owned this was probably a tradesman or merchant, prosperous enough to spring for the buckle. If it were a rich man's buckle it would have been made of silver or silver and quartz/glass jewels or for the richest, gold. The reason I can say it is a shoe buckle and not a knee buckle is that the orientation of the buckle and the drilled portions where the inner working or chape is. In a knee buckle the center pin is oriented to the length of the buckle, whereas the pin on a shoebuckle is oriented to the width of the buckle. Do please try to go out and find the other half, this is an important find for an American site. Great recovery. Massmaps
Excellent read, thanks for sharing!

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  #12  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:24 PM
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I'm never disappointed with the things I learn from this site. Excellent overview Massmaps!

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  #13  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:26 PM
Massmaps Massmaps is offline
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Default RE: Your Colonial Shoebuckle Find

RE: Your Colonial Shoebuckle Find

I took the time to do my artist's missconception of what your shoebuckle would have looked like intact.

Note: I used Photoshop so no actual buckles were harmed in the production of this picture.

Keep on diggin!

Massmaps
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  #14  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:44 PM
DigginLikeADog DigginLikeADog is offline
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Originally Posted by Massmaps View post
RE: Your 18th Century Shoebuckle Find

You wanted to know if someone important used this item. Well....if you think the colonists who built and founded this great nation of ours are important, then you have. This is a mid-18th Century Shoe buckle made of brass, it was probably gilded, sometimes it was tin washed or silver plated, but mostly gilded. The figures on the buckle are English, the crown depicted is the English Crown of St. Edwards most often depicted upon 18th century military buttons and the like. The other figures portray an allegory or allusion to a great event happening; the cherubs are blowing trumpets heralding a great occasion. given the estimated time frame of the production of this buckle, my analysis is that this is a souvenir of the coronation of King George III in 1760. I collect 18th century shoe buckles, I became fascinated when I dug a few in Virginia many years ago and have found many at flea market in new England, also in the ground. I have seen thousands of shoebuckles in museums and online. Your buckle is very uncommon. I have never seen one with this design which leads me to believe it was a low production, so perhaps this is a sole survivor. The person who owned this was probably a tradesman or merchant, prosperous enough to spring for the buckle. If it were a rich man's buckle it would have been made of silver or silver and quartz/glass jewels or for the richest, gold. The reason I can say it is a shoe buckle and not a knee buckle is that the orientation of the buckle and the drilled portions where the inner working or chape is. In a knee buckle the center pin is oriented to the length of the buckle, whereas the pin on a shoebuckle is oriented to the width of the buckle. Do please try to go out and find the other half, this is an important find for an American site. Great recovery. Massmaps
Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! I appreciate your insight on this piece, and your description really painted a picture. It seems you have really done your homework on them. I’ve recvered many colonial buckles out here.. some decorative, some not, but nothing quite like this- It has quickly become a favorite. I will definitely be heading back out to see if I can recover the rest ASAP. Thanks again!

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Oldest US Silver: 1840 Seated Half Dime
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:03 PM
Massmaps Massmaps is offline
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Default Glad I could assist.

Sounds like you dig quite a few of the 18th century buckles. The best book available on identifying and dating buckles of all kinds 1250-1800, is Called, natuarlly, BUCKLES 1250-1800 by Ross Whitehead. he spent many years comparing buckles found in closely dates archeological excavations and also gather information from all over the UK on buckles and produced a wonderful and relatively inexspensive trade paperback type of book. BUCKLES 1250-1800 by Ross Whitehead, published by Greenlight Publishing company 1996, ISBN 1 897738 17 X
Address: Greenlight Publishing, the Publishing House, hatfield Peverel Chelmsford, Essex CM3 2 HF .

This book is great, i believe i paid about $20.00 many years ago. I just checked and it is still in print being sold by greenlightpublishing (dot) com for British Pounda, L 16.50, right now that is equal to $20.98.

Note: I am not connected in any way with the author or company, I just know good work when i see it.

Regards,

Massmaps
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  #16  
Old 08-16-2018, 08:31 AM
waltr waltr is online now
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Great info Massmaps.

From your info I am thinking that the person why wore this buckle may not have been a resident of the colonies but someone that traveled between Britain and the colonies. You did said maybe a merchant so this fits and having a British crown on the buckle seems to indicate he was loyal to Britain.

That is a great find and hope DigginLikeADog finds the other half.
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  #17  
Old 08-16-2018, 08:19 PM
DigginLikeADog DigginLikeADog is offline
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Originally Posted by Massmaps View post
Sounds like you dig quite a few of the 18th century buckles. The best book available on identifying and dating buckles of all kinds 1250-1800, is Called, natuarlly, BUCKLES 1250-1800 by Ross Whitehead. he spent many years comparing buckles found in closely dates archeological excavations and also gather information from all over the UK on buckles and produced a wonderful and relatively inexspensive trade paperback type of book. BUCKLES 1250-1800 by Ross Whitehead, published by Greenlight Publishing company 1996, ISBN 1 897738 17 X
Address: Greenlight Publishing, the Publishing House, hatfield Peverel Chelmsford, Essex CM3 2 HF .

This book is great, i believe i paid about $20.00 many years ago. I just checked and it is still in print being sold by greenlightpublishing (dot) com for British Pounda, L 16.50, right now that is equal to $20.98.

Note: I am not connected in any way with the author or company, I just know good work when i see it.

Regards,

Massmaps
Just got it on order! Thanks for the tip.. this will be a valuable tool for researching past and future digs!

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Oldest Copper: 1738 KGII
Oldest Silver: 1781 Half Reale
Oldest US Silver: 1840 Seated Half Dime
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