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  #1  
Old 08-12-2018, 09:15 PM
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Default Help ID this cartridge case!

Hey everyone I found this a few days ago and I measured a bunch of stuff. I have no idea if this even is a cartridge case but im 90% sure it is. I would love to know what kind!
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  #2  
Old 08-12-2018, 09:58 PM
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Looks like an old black powder cartridge. No date stamped on it. Someone with more knowledge will probably be able to tell you what it is. Still a nice find.

Here is an old 45-70 Calvary cartridge I found. It is dated 1878. Looks very similar, but different size.

http://metaldetectingforum.com/pictu...ictureid=18127

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  #3  
Old 08-13-2018, 08:55 AM
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Maybe Lip Stick tube.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:07 AM
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2x on lipstick tube. I don't see a spot for a primer, and I don't remember any centerfire that worked like a rimfire. I'm not an expert on ammunition, so I could be wrong (it's been known to happen).

-- Tom

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Old 08-13-2018, 10:13 AM
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I'm thinking it's a 52-70 early Sharps. Is it all copper?

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  #6  
Old 08-13-2018, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RBachman View post
I'm thinking it's a 52-70 early Sharps. Is it all copper?
It is all copper. However, when I looked up the dimensions I don't think it is a 52-70.

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  #7  
Old 08-13-2018, 10:23 AM
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I don't think it is a lipstick case. If you look towards the base you see that little ring. It's on that 45-70 casing too.

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  #8  
Old 08-13-2018, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gseuser View post
It is all copper. However, when I looked up the dimensions I don't think it is a 52-70.
Double check the measurements you looked up. There were several different lengths for the Sharps 52-70 and some of it depended on when the 50-70's were re-conditioned/modified. I've seen 3 or 4 lengths for the same round, so it's all a Google guess right now.

The copper casings were used initially and brass came later.

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Old 08-13-2018, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by achaios View post
2x on lipstick tube. I don't see a spot for a primer, and I don't remember any centerfire that worked like a rimfire. I'm not an expert on ammunition, so I could be wrong (it's been known to happen).

-- Tom
It is a black powder casing. Here is an end view of the casing pictured above. See no primer. Casings I found from the 1880's had primers.

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  #10  
Old 08-13-2018, 03:53 PM
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This is interesting.
I did some searches on Sharps 52-70 and found info on the origins of cartridges.

There were some very early ones that were center fire and not primer. The priming charge was inside the case.
Also found info about various length cartridges for early Sharps rifles, mainly one converted from using paper cartridge to using metal cartridge. Some were just over 1 1/2 inch long.

In all the pictures of very early cartridges none had that ring just above the rim/head. Guessing maybe this ring was created upon firing the cartridge were it took the shape of the chamber.

Still unsure but has good possibility of being a very early cartridge.
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  #11  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:14 AM
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I sent the pics to a friend of mine that's spent most of his life researching and studying Civil War artifacts. His opinion is that this is a Benet internally primed case, which the US Army/Cavalry used in the 1870s. Many liked it were recovered at little bighorn. Here are a couple of pages from one of his reference books. The diagram depicts a Benet type primed cartridge. The cartridges were in a fairly significant transition at the time and many existing weapons were modified to keep up with technology. There were also a number of various lengths. The crimps on the bottom of the case are to secure the internal primer and not from firing. However, the copper casings were soft and difficult to remove from singly shot breach loaders. Later they used brass that better stood up to the pressures and made it easier to extract and the crimps went away on later rounds.

...so I am told.





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  #12  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:50 AM
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What a great mystery solved! Dang! none of us woulda known anything about this obscure 'internal primer' style cartridge if you had not have found one!
Good Job Team Friendly! Props to RBachman for the extra point effort!!

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  #13  
Old 08-14-2018, 10:24 AM
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Wow, that is a very old casing.
Good detective work finding info on this obscure case.

I did read about the internal primer but didn't see any drawings. That cut away drawing is exactly what we needed and explains the crimp ring near the base.

Great historical find.
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2018, 01:02 PM
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I guess this confirms that! Awesome thank you very much for the help!!!

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