Mmmmm temptation

Big Treble

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SW WI
This stinks.

Through research, just found a site one of the earliest settlers in the tri county area I live in. This was developed into a small settlement. It was a pretty prosperous place in the early 1800's. The gentleman that settled it was a socialite so to speak, and had guest. One being Jefferson Davis and another Zach Taylor. So their were most likely coins lost at various functions. Here is where the treasure hunters mind starts to spin....tragedy strikes.....over 50 people lost their lives, and in a nutshell the settlement was never the same.

Treasure hunters dream right?

Yep I can walk on the place like I own it.

The bad news is I do own it, along with other Wisconsinites, its managed by the WI DNR. So they don't take kindly to detecting.
 
There is something that bothers me about the whole Off limits thing..

I mean there is History buried there and if we don't dig it up.. no one will. It is not like the Archeologist are out there trying to uncover the past at these sites, so if no one does then there it remains. I mean if they were actively trying to do so to preserve history.. then I am all for that but to just say this is off limits

Tell me WHO benefits from that :?: I just really don't get it.. makes no sense to me...
 
There is something that bothers me about the whole Off limits thing..

I mean there is History buried there and if we don't dig it up.. no one will. It is not like the Archeologist are out there trying to uncover the past at these sites, so if no one does then there it remains. I mean if they were actively trying to do so to preserve history.. then I am all for that but to just say this is off limits

Tell me WHO benefits from that :?: I just really don't get it.. makes no sense to me...

Ha, well then you have not learned their talking-points shtick to rebut the md'rs lament.

You rightly lament : "What do they care ? It will rot till eternity. And let's be honest: They're never going to dig there. Heck, they spend all summer digging a single 6 ft. by 6 ft. pit, thus they would NEVER be able to cover an entire square mile, no matter HOW well funded they became.

But they would have the following push-back: How do YOU know that .... some future archie, 1000 yrs. from now, might not dig a pit in the exact spot where you found that V-nickel ? And thus you would have robbed future generations from learning about their past (how could you be so evil ?)

For example: We can probably all agree that snooping around the pyramids of Egypt should be left to the professionals, right ? But why would someone care if it were the middle-of-nowhere, in the desert, elsewhere ? So for example: Some worker-bee villages (presumably the workers who built the pyramids, quarried the stone, etc...) were discovered MILES from the actual pyramids, along the Nile river, "in the middle of proverbial nowhere". And modern day archies have now dug there, to learn about the common-man laborer lifestyles. And learned a LOT, that is now on display in museums, and has expanded our knowledge of history.

Thus as you can see, something that "in the middle of nowhere" WON'T necessarily "rot till eternity". You can never say for 100% certain, that possibly some future archie might not dig there.

And let's be perfectly honest: If they started to relax their rules (for "middle of nowhere" scenarios), then we md'rs would be perpetually pushing the envelope. Disputing what is sacred historical monument, versus how far away from that you can detect, etc... They'd be forever baby-sitting the situation. Hence: Can you blame them for simply saying "no for all of it, border to border" ?

With that said, I still agree with you that , as long as we're not tromping on ground zero sacred spots (obvious monuments), then: There are other solutions to these "middle of nowhere" locations. :roll:
 
Wow that stinks. Hate to say it, but I bet its already been scanned anyway :laughing: well that's what I would tell myself anyway :yes:

Yeah, but not by me. :laughing:

There is something that bothers me about the whole Off limits thing..

I mean there is History buried there and if we don't dig it up.. no one will. It is not like the Archeologist are out there trying to uncover the past at these sites, so if no one does then there it remains. I mean if they were actively trying to do so to preserve history.. then I am all for that but to just say this is off limits

Tell me WHO benefits from that :?: I just really don't get it.. makes no sense to me...

I concur, it's open to nearly any activity but detecting, and don't think it will change with the new regime.

I hear ya. Lots of great "off limits" public state land spots in WI. Can't even beg my way into detecting the nearby state park...anymore.

Ridiculous isn't it.

Ha, well then you have not learned their talking-points shtick to rebut the md'rs lament.

You rightly lament : "What do they care ? It will rot till eternity. And let's be honest: They're never going to dig there. Heck, they spend all summer digging a single 6 ft. by 6 ft. pit, thus they would NEVER be able to cover an entire square mile, no matter HOW well funded they became.

But they would have the following push-back: How do YOU know that .... some future archie, 1000 yrs. from now, might not dig a pit in the exact spot where you found that V-nickel ? And thus you would have robbed future generations from learning about their past (how could you be so evil ?)

For example: We can probably all agree that snooping around the pyramids of Egypt should be left to the professionals, right ? But why would someone care if it were the middle-of-nowhere, in the desert, elsewhere ? So for example: Some worker-bee villages (presumably the workers who built the pyramids, quarried the stone, etc...) were discovered MILES from the actual pyramids, along the Nile river, "in the middle of proverbial nowhere". And modern day archies have now dug there, to learn about the common-man laborer lifestyles. And learned a LOT, that is now on display in museums, and has expanded our knowledge of history.

Thus as you can see, something that "in the middle of nowhere" WON'T necessarily "rot till eternity". You can never say for 100% certain, that possibly some future archie might not dig there.

And let's be perfectly honest: If they started to relax their rules (for "middle of nowhere" scenarios), then we md'rs would be perpetually pushing the envelope. Disputing what is sacred historical monument, versus how far away from that you can detect, etc... They'd be forever baby-sitting the situation. Hence: Can you blame them for simply saying "no for all of it, border to border" ?

With that said, I still agree with you that , as long as we're not tromping on ground zero sacred spots (obvious monuments), then: There are other solutions to these "middle of nowhere" locations. :roll:

Tom, I'm bringing you in as a lobbyist. If not that, we will take turns distracting the wardens while the other detects.
 
Tom you really need to run for office. On the MDr's platform. That was so eloquent and straightforward.
Public land belongs to us the public
 
You could always try the old line "I'm looking for my sisters wedding ring, she was playing Frisbee here last weekend"
 
Ha, well then you have not learned their talking-points shtick to rebut the md'rs lament.

You rightly lament : "What do they care ? It will rot till eternity. And let's be honest: They're never going to dig there. Heck, they spend all summer digging a single 6 ft. by 6 ft. pit, thus they would NEVER be able to cover an entire square mile, no matter HOW well funded they became.

But they would have the following push-back: How do YOU know that .... some future archie, 1000 yrs. from now, might not dig a pit in the exact spot where you found that V-nickel ? And thus you would have robbed future generations from learning about their past (how could you be so evil ?)

For example: We can probably all agree that snooping around the pyramids of Egypt should be left to the professionals, right ? But why would someone care if it were the middle-of-nowhere, in the desert, elsewhere ? So for example: Some worker-bee villages (presumably the workers who built the pyramids, quarried the stone, etc...) were discovered MILES from the actual pyramids, along the Nile river, "in the middle of proverbial nowhere". And modern day archies have now dug there, to learn about the common-man laborer lifestyles. And learned a LOT, that is now on display in museums, and has expanded our knowledge of history.

Thus as you can see, something that "in the middle of nowhere" WON'T necessarily "rot till eternity". You can never say for 100% certain, that possibly some future archie might not dig there.

And let's be perfectly honest: If they started to relax their rules (for "middle of nowhere" scenarios), then we md'rs would be perpetually pushing the envelope. Disputing what is sacred historical monument, versus how far away from that you can detect, etc... They'd be forever baby-sitting the situation. Hence: Can you blame them for simply saying "no for all of it, border to border" ?

With that said, I still agree with you that , as long as we're not tromping on ground zero sacred spots (obvious monuments), then: There are other solutions to these "middle of nowhere" locations. :roll:

Tom you are the detectors advocate, You need to be in politics!
 
You could always try the old line "I'm looking for my sisters wedding ring, she was playing Frisbee here last weekend"

:laughing:I might try that. However its 1/ mile back into the timber. Lol. Ironically I could hunt there 100 times in a row and know one would know I was there. However the one time I would get caught, would be extremely expensive.

I should just dress in a white hazmat suit with a orange safety vest and a respirator. No warden would come close to me!
 
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm a big fan of our National Parks and have enjoyed dozens of states parks. I like the idea of keeping pristine areas as free from mans influence as possible, but once we have already messed it up, metal detection is basically litter clean up.
 
Go at night if you can. If someone asks you say you’re looking for a friend’s lost wedding ring, might even be beneficial to have a picture of a recently photographed gold ring so you can prove your “innocence” :lol:
 
I would still find out who the decision maker was and go see them in person and ask.
I went thru a similar situation a couple years ago. There was some old homesites on national forest that I wanted to hunt. I went to the ranger station in charge of that parcel and after a short chat I had permission. We don't have specific rules against metal detecting in my state which gave the ranger some leeway but your state might be different.
Or just wait for the next govt shutdown.
 
Ha, well then you have not learned their talking-points shtick to rebut the md'rs lament.

You rightly lament : "What do they care ? It will rot till eternity. And let's be honest: They're never going to dig there. Heck, they spend all summer digging a single 6 ft. by 6 ft. pit, thus they would NEVER be able to cover an entire square mile, no matter HOW well funded they became.

But they would have the following push-back: How do YOU know that .... some future archie, 1000 yrs. from now, might not dig a pit in the exact spot where you found that V-nickel ? And thus you would have robbed future generations from learning about their past (how could you be so evil ?)

For example: We can probably all agree that snooping around the pyramids of Egypt should be left to the professionals, right ? But why would someone care if it were the middle-of-nowhere, in the desert, elsewhere ? So for example: Some worker-bee villages (presumably the workers who built the pyramids, quarried the stone, etc...) were discovered MILES from the actual pyramids, along the Nile river, "in the middle of proverbial nowhere". And modern day archies have now dug there, to learn about the common-man laborer lifestyles. And learned a LOT, that is now on display in museums, and has expanded our knowledge of history.

Thus as you can see, something that "in the middle of nowhere" WON'T necessarily "rot till eternity". You can never say for 100% certain, that possibly some future archie might not dig there.

And let's be perfectly honest: If they started to relax their rules (for "middle of nowhere" scenarios), then we md'rs would be perpetually pushing the envelope. Disputing what is sacred historical monument, versus how far away from that you can detect, etc... They'd be forever baby-sitting the situation. Hence: Can you blame them for simply saying "no for all of it, border to border" ?

With that said, I still agree with you that , as long as we're not tromping on ground zero sacred spots (obvious monuments), then: There are other solutions to these "middle of nowhere" locations. :roll:

Was thinking a little more about this and came to the conclusion that in this case the United Kingdom probably does it right !

In the UK if you find something you must turn it over to the Finds Liaison Officer and if they find it historical and want it.. they have to pay you fair market value.. or you get to keep it.
Seems if that was the case here then it would be a win/win situation for all.
 
... I went to the ranger station in charge of that parcel and after a short chat I had permission. We don't have specific rules against metal detecting in my state which gave the ranger some leeway but your state might be different....

Mountain-Mike: I don't understand. If there is no rules against md'ing in your state parks, then why was it necessary to "get permission" ? If it's not prohibited (ie.: silent on the subject), then presto: It's not disallowed.

So curious why you thought you still needed to ask ? That seems like risking the old "No one cared TILL you asked" safe-answer routine.
 
Was thinking a little more about this and came to the conclusion that in this case the United Kingdom probably does it right !

In the UK if you find something you must turn it over to the Finds Liaison Officer and if they find it historical and want it.. they have to pay you fair market value.. or you get to keep it.
Seems if that was the case here then it would be a win/win situation for all.

The British system is WAY misunderstood by Americans. It does not "open more areas" to md'ing. Trust me: The UK has scores of public land that is off-limits to md'ing. Why do you think most UK hunters do private farm fields ?

You do not want the UK system here. It will not open up more places to detect (and would only be "swatting hornet's nests which would lead to worse rules).

Here in the USA: What you find on Farmer Bob's land is totally between you and farmer Bob as to how to split and sell. Why would anyone want to change that ?
 
Clandestine late night reconnaissance just to see if it’s worthwhile. Take it from there.

Worthwhile is what keeps me away. Here in Wisconsin if you get pulled over by a state trooper, its pretty automatic you get a ticket, they will even tell you "we don't give warnings, you know what the law was" not being dicks just what they do. As a matter of fact in 30 years of driving, only received one verbal warning from a state trooper, and it's only because I knew his parents.

It seems the wi dnr tend to be even more serious. They have the authority to immediately seize any thing used in what they believe is used in what they believe is a crime. Including any vehicle used to haul any potential contraband.

Not sure anything would stick in the court of law, but a person would play he!! Getting your stuff back.
 
Mountain-Mike: I don't understand. If there is no rules against md'ing in your state parks, then why was it necessary to "get permission" ? If it's not prohibited (ie.: silent on the subject), then presto: It's not disallowed.

So curious why you thought you still needed to ask ? That seems like risking the old "No one cared TILL you asked" safe-answer routine.

I felt it was in my best interest to ask. This place has some unique rules. First off you are not allowed to collect artifacts. That rule came about due to people collecting native artifacts. I needed to know their definition of "artifact".
Secondly they have a rule that you cant dig. This came about due to due to a popular mineral collecting site getting hammered. it looked like the moon with all the craters.
Both rules have hefty fines. Not to mention I had had an chat with an intense game warden over a small pail of nothing rocks a few years earlier. My cousin collected them to take back to FL.
I didn't want any problems so I asked. This was national forest( similar to DNR land I suppose) not a state park. State parks are out.
 
I felt it was in my best interest to ask.....

Ok. Then why couldn't that 'best interest" have been satisfied by looking up rules for yourself ? I mean, what ...... in your opinion ..... do they base their answer on : A) actual law/rule, or B) mere whimsical mood ? If you answer "A", then ..... why can't your interests be fulfulled in looking up those rules ?

... This place has some unique rules. ....

like what ? I see that you answered:

.... you are not allowed to collect artifacts. That rule came about due to people collecting native artifacts. I needed to know their definition of "artifact"....

Fair enough. Ok, Then let's try this on for size: What do you think the answer would be, if you went into ANY city hall, in ANY city across the USA, and asked "hi, can I collect artifacts from your park ?" What do you think their answer would be ? Thus no: It's not "unique" in the slightest.

.... Secondly they have a rule that you cant dig... .

Same thing: I challenge you to go into ANY city anywhere, and ask "Hi can I dig in your park ?" and see what they say. Thus: Not unique.

... Both rules have hefty fines... .

And barring someone snooping around an obvious historic sensitive monument, or leaving craters (not filling holes , and being an obnxious eyesore of some sort), I'll bet you have no examples of such "fines", right ?

... I didn't want any problems so I asked. ....

Why can't problems be avoided by looking up for oneself ?
 
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