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  #21  
Old 06-21-2022, 01:02 PM
kamogawa kamogawa is online now
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Originally Posted by Robert JK View post
IMO - there is absolutely no debate. I'm not detecting a cemetery under any circumstance.

I have a cemetery down my gravel road that was est. in 1867. No one would even know I was there. But that doesn't change anything for me.

There is a field area outside the cemetery fence where people would park when they visit that I have considered hitting. I think I will at some point. I think it's far enough away that I feel comfortable doing it.
Very well said! Clear and to the point.

I might also be tempted to hunt the parking lot field, but I suppose we could say that was a field was kind of an extension of the cemetery as people were arriving there on a day of great sorrow. But if I saw you out there, I wouldn't think anything negative of it and probably would want to go get my detector also.
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  #22  
Old 06-21-2022, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kamogawa View post
Very well said! Clear and to the point.

I might also be tempted to hunt the parking lot field, but I suppose we could say that was a field was kind of an extension of the cemetery as people were arriving there on a day of great sorrow. But if I saw you out there, I wouldn't think anything negative of it and probably would want to go get my detector also.
The areas outside the grave yards often doubled as a park where people went on picnics , the grave yards were often close to a old church which was the center of activity in many rural areas.

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  #23  
Old 06-21-2022, 05:58 PM
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It's just how you look at it and how others do. A girlfriends's father was a preacher of some sort and told me they weren't anything. Said he didn't care if they threw his corpse in a ditch. When we were kids our summer job was mowing a huge one so it wasn't special, sacred creepy etc to us. Personally I don't need to be buried in a cemetery. I never visit them either. I don't need to look at a headstone to remember my loved ones. BUT to many out there it is sacred AND as said before it's private property.
There's enough other places to hunt.

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  #24  
Old 06-21-2022, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MuddyMo View post
.... BUT to many out there it is sacred ...
Good post. In essence, the issue isn't a theological one, it's more of a "don't spit in other people's holy water" issue. Not a debate over whether-or-not the water is or isn't "holy".

I mean, when you think of it : One repeated connotation we md'rs have, that comes up ANY time the issue of nice manicured park turf comes up, is (drum roll) : HOLES. Right ? Even though WE know we'll leave no trace and do no harm, yet to the nosy-parker passing by, all they think of is dig + holes. Right ?

So your choice is to sit there and debate them about how you'll leave no trace and do no harm. OR you can face the reality that our hobby has ... uh ... "connotations" (holes + dig). And decide not to spit in their holy water. Realize that you won't win the debate, *even* if you're technically right .

We're in an odd-ball hobby no matter WHERE you do it . So for pete's sake, HOW MUCH MORE SO in a cemetery ? Is that any surprise ?
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  #25  
Old 06-21-2022, 07:42 PM
ManInTheWaLL ManInTheWaLL is offline
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I think the topic stirs up more emotions, than if you actually did it!

My guess if you MD in a cemetery.. good chance no one will say anything, depending on where it is.

Just mention the topic on this board....well... you see the results.

All property is private to some extent. I doubt you'll get into military base, or Fort Knox, even though it's owned by the public.

If your really worried about it, put a reflective vest on that say surveyor or something . $12.95.. Amazon
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2022, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kamogawa View post
When someone says "I found a promising looking site. It's a cemetery. Is ok to detect there?"

My answer is " NO, NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER."
I would never advocate attempting it, those many do.

But then I hear:

"I felt it was okay because I didn't not take anything that families left at the tombstones."

or

"The cemetery is from the 18th and 19th century so no one is alive to visit there anymore so I don't feel like I am bothering anything."

or

"It looked abandoned and neglected so it didn't seem like I was doing any harm."

Same goes for battlefields. I watched this terrible video of a guy who was in France detecting a WW2 triage field hospital and what had been a temporary burial site for U.S. and French military just prior to Normandy. He was excited because he was finding military and hospital equipment and personal effects, that were probably lost as uniforms were cut off of soldiers prior to surgery.

He said "Yeah, I feel like I shouldn't be here, but I feel I am honoring their memory by remembering what happened here."
Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL View post
I think the topic stirs up more emotions, than if you actually did it!

My guess if you MD in a cemetery.. good chance no one will say anything, depending on where it is.

Just mention the topic on this board....well... you see the results.

All property is private to some extent. I doubt you'll get into military base, or Fort Knox, even though it's owned by the public.

If your really worried about it, put a reflective vest on that say surveyor or something . $12.95.. Amazon

GRAVE ROBBING, plain and simple. And anybody with an ounce of self respect should be able to see this. Not to mention the negative spin its put on the hobby. Let the dead rest, go hunt the parks. And if you think if you sneak no one will know. Shame on you. You will know and if thats not enough then you are lost to decency. Sorry to see this topic even being discussed.

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  #27  
Old 06-22-2022, 12:22 AM
ManInTheWaLL ManInTheWaLL is offline
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Originally Posted by markinswpa View post
GRAVE ROBBING, plain and simple. And anybody with an ounce of self respect should be able to see this. Not to mention the negative spin its put on the hobby. Let the dead rest, go hunt the parks. And if you think if you sneak no one will know. Shame on you. You will know and if thats not enough then you are lost to decency. Sorry to see this topic even being discussed.
Metal detecting is not grave robbing. The meaning of GRAVE ROBBER is a person who digs up a buried body to steal the things that were buried with it.

You could even make the claim you are just cleaning the area up, of garbage and pop tabs.

Basically it all boils down to... if you are superstitious or not.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm. People don't respect people that are alive, they don't respect unborn babies. But once you die, everyone respects you! Something to think about!

I would think unless you damaged the turf, not much they could or would do to you legally. Tell you to leave maybe.

Maybe people on here don't like you detecting in a graveyard, because it's their little hidden gem? Ya Never know!

One thing is for certain, if any of the dead talk to you and say get out... I would listen to them!

I know a lady who runs a graveyard, she said there are some interesting characters who come to see their deceased family members. One guy comes every day, for the last 5 years, to see his deceased wife.
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  #28  
Old 06-22-2022, 10:23 AM
Robert JK Robert JK is offline
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Originally Posted by kamogawa View post
Very well said! Clear and to the point.

I might also be tempted to hunt the parking lot field, but I suppose we could say that was a field was kind of an extension of the cemetery as people were arriving there on a day of great sorrow. But if I saw you out there, I wouldn't think anything negative of it and probably would want to go get my detector also.
There is a fence around the cemetery and the entrance point. I am staying about 10-15 feet away from the fence line just to give a buffer so I'm not right on top of the cemetery. Personally, I just feel better if I give that little buffer.
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  #29  
Old 06-22-2022, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL View post
Metal detecting is not grave robbing. The meaning of GRAVE ROBBER is a person who digs up a buried body to steal the things that were buried with it.

You could even make the claim you are just cleaning the area up, of garbage and pop tabs.

Basically it all boils down to... if you are superstitious or not.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm. People don't respect people that are alive, they don't respect unborn babies. But once you die, everyone respects you! Something to think about!

I would think unless you damaged the turf, not much they could or would do to you legally. Tell you to leave maybe.

Maybe people on here don't like you detecting in a graveyard, because it's their little hidden gem? Ya Never know!

One thing is for certain, if any of the dead talk to you and say get out... I would listen to them!

I know a lady who runs a graveyard, she said there are some interesting characters who come to see their deceased family members. One guy comes every day, for the last 5 years, to see his deceased wife.
Man you just don't get it. It has nothing to do with what legal and everything to do what is ethical. Grave robbing is considered taking anything from within the confines of a cemetery. Are you familiar with the tradition of leaving coins on a fallen soldiers grave ? Get caught taking one of those and see what happens.
I have never commented on one of your posts.

The reason, I remember your intro post where you said you didn't like digging or getting your hand dirty. I had you figured for a rodwad then and now you saying you hunt cemeteries confirms my original impression'

Its people like you that give this hobby a bad name and bring criticism en mass.
My hope is that enough members read you statements about hunting cemeteries and refuse to view or comment on any of you many posts. And there is no doubt, for you it all about, views, comments and attention and little to do with mding. And then help you to understand that you have pretty much worn your welcome out here and maybe you will go troll another forum.

You seem like an articulate man, somewhat educated but I doubt your vocabulary includes the word poultroon which come to mind when I think of you. Please don't go away mad. Just ??? You however get one distinction, I will use the ignore feature for the first time just in case you haven't got the subtle hints.

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Last edited by markinswpa; 06-22-2022 at 07:01 PM. Reason: add text
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  #30  
Old 06-22-2022, 11:44 PM
ManInTheWaLL ManInTheWaLL is offline
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Originally Posted by markinswpa View post
Man you just don't get it. It has nothing to do with what legal and everything to do what is ethical. Grave robbing is considered taking anything from within the confines of a cemetery. Are you familiar with the tradition of leaving coins on a fallen soldiers grave ? Get caught taking one of those and see what happens.
I have never commented on one of your posts.

The reason, I remember your intro post where you said you didn't like digging or getting your hand dirty. I had you figured for a rodwad then and now you saying you hunt cemeteries confirms my original impression'

Its people like you that give this hobby a bad name and bring criticism en mass.
My hope is that enough members read you statements about hunting cemeteries and refuse to view or comment on any of you many posts. And there is no doubt, for you it all about, views, comments and attention and little to do with mding. And then help you to understand that you have pretty much worn your welcome out here and maybe you will go troll another forum.

You seem like an articulate man, somewhat educated but I doubt your vocabulary includes the word poultroon which come to mind when I think of you. Please don't go away mad. Just ??? You however get one distinction, I will use the ignore feature for the first time just in case you haven't got the subtle hints.
Well, all that would matter in a court of law would be the legal definition of grave robbing. And it seems many states don't actually call it that. So, it's really not a legal term, thus in the legal world, it doesn't exist in most states.

Many people metal detect in graveyards... here is a very good link on it...

https://treasureseekr.com/can-you-me...in-a-cemetery/

I'm not familiar with that tradition. But google says...

found this link..the following 2 paragraphs came from this site.
http://lanesboroamericanlegion.org/c...ombstones.html

Leaving a penny at the grave means simply that you visited. Leaving a nickel indicates that you and the deceased trained at boot camp together. Leaving a dime means you served together in some capacity. Leaving a quarter at the grave, you are telling the family that you were with the soldier when they were killed.

In the US, this practice became common during the Vietnam war, due to the political divide in the country over the war, leaving a coin was seen as a more practical way to communicate that you had visited the grave than contacting the soldier’s family, which could devolve into an uncomfortable argument over politics relating to the war.

So, never knew that, thanks for the info.

Some people think abortion is acceptable, some think it's murder. Just because you don't agree with someones view should not make you resort to calling them names.
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  #31  
Old 06-23-2022, 10:11 AM
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Everyone has thier own personal standards of conduct. Some of us set our own bar just a bit higher then the rest.

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  #32  
Old 06-23-2022, 10:48 AM
ManInTheWaLL ManInTheWaLL is offline
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Originally Posted by GTS225 View post
Everyone has thier own personal standards of conduct. Some of us set our own bar just a bit higher then the rest.

Roger
Many people think they are at a higher moral level than "the rest".
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  #33  
Old 06-23-2022, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL View post
Many people think they are at a higher moral level than "the rest".
The "bar" , in the md'ing vs cemetery issue, is not one of "Is it moral to md cemeteries". It's a question of impressions/connotations TO OTHERS. So the "morals" being spoken of here are not theological ones. Because if it were, then sure, there's people here that would agree with you that the deceased are nothing but dust now. I don't think that's up for dispute. No one's referring to that issue of "morals".

It's more along the lines of : What does the NEXT person think ? How does it APPEAR . I mean, sheesk, if the "holes" issue comes up as a debate point for routine turfed parks, then HOW MUCH MORE SO for a cemetery ?

I learned in my young teenage years that for some issues you just learn not to spit in other people's holy water. RATHER than trying to convince them that the "water isn't really holy". So to expand the analogy here : It's not a debate about "is this water holy " (md'ing in cemeteries) or not. It's about respecting persons with opinions other than yours. I think this is what GTS225 was driving at.
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  #34  
Old 06-23-2022, 01:13 PM
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Here's a thought : My business partner's mother passed away about 15 yrs. ago. She had been a real shutterbug photographer. She just LOVED to go around taking pictures of everyone, and everything, in her twilight years.

About a week after she passed away, her sons decided to bury the camera with her. Obviously the casket was already 6 ft. under, so what they did, was merely go out there and dig a hole by the grave, and bury the camera. I'm sure it's no more than a foot deep. I'm sure that an md'r could probably go there and detect it. And I'm sure that my business partner is of the opinion that his mom is not in any position to care about the camera.

So you tell me, what would my business partner think if someone went there and dug up the camera ?
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  #35  
Old 06-23-2022, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Soil Surgeon View post
A wicked man gets sent to Hell . Satan tells him " regardless of what you heard , I am a fair man , I will let you pick your own punishment ;behind these three doors are three choices ,I am going to give you a peek at your choices .

Satan opens the first door; People being tortured by little gremlins with Branding irons and flame throwers .

Sinner says , oh no , that's not for me !

Second door ; People being whipped , and also stabbed with pitchforks ;

Sinner says I wouldn't like that either !

Third door ; People standing in waist deep doodoo drinking coffee .

Sinner says "hey that doesn't look so bad " that's going to be my choice" .

Satan says , your sure about that right , we are talking eternity here ?

Sinner says ok and Satan puts him into the room .

After Satan does that he yells out to everyone in the room , "ok coffee break is over , everyone back to standing on your heads " !
That's an old Readers' Digest joke. Still funny though.

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  #36  
Old 06-23-2022, 03:01 PM
ManInTheWaLL ManInTheWaLL is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
The "bar" , in the md'ing vs cemetery issue, is not one of "Is it moral to md cemeteries". It's a question of impressions/connotations TO OTHERS. So the "morals" being spoken of here are not theological ones. Because if it were, then sure, there's people here that would agree with you that the deceased are nothing but dust now. I don't think that's up for dispute. No one's referring to that issue of "morals".

It's more along the lines of : What does the NEXT person think ? How does it APPEAR . I mean, sheesk, if the "holes" issue comes up as a debate point for routine turfed parks, then HOW MUCH MORE SO for a cemetery ?

I learned in my young teenage years that for some issues you just learn not to spit in other people's holy water. RATHER than trying to convince them that the "water isn't really holy". So to expand the analogy here : It's not a debate about "is this water holy " (md'ing in cemeteries) or not. It's about respecting persons with opinions other than yours. I think this is what GTS225 was driving at.

The whole country is split on everything! You are not going to get a consensus on most things, and even if you do, does that mean the majority is right? Put the majority behind the yoke of a 747, lets see where they fly it!

Good luck pleasing everyone. Once you start bending for others, they will keep bending, and bending, until you break.

Many people detect in Graveyards. Many people do stuff that isn't socially acceptable. We act our best in public, but think best in private. I wonder how many here do it, but don't admit it, for the fear of being shunned!

I don't care about your "morals', usually people just shape them into what's best for them, and label everyone else EVIL. There is no logic in morals, so you can't debate that issue. I have no control over your feelings. If you don't like that laws, get them changed! Make it illegal to walk into a graveyard with a metal detector.
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  #37  
Old 06-23-2022, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL View post
....does that mean the majority is right? .....

Again I repeat : It's not about who is right (in this case). Instead : It's about not-spitting in other people's holy water. NOT "convincing them it's not really holy water".

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL View post
.... Good luck pleasing everyone.....
MITW : We can all agree that we can "not please everyone". That's not the purpose of this topic here. And even though you and I "can't please everyone", does not exclude us from attempting to avoid connotations IN THEIR MIND'S EYES.

In other words, sometimes in-this-life it's necessary to give lip service. It doesn't mean you agree with them.

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL View post
.... I wonder how many here do it, but don't admit it, for the fear of being shunned!.....
Ok, let's go with this for a minute : FINE ! Do it, but don't flaunt it. Lest, SURE, you'll be "shunned". There may in fact be people here (like you) who have no problem with it, but that don't flaunt it, since it's a delicate issue. Maybe that's a lesson you could apply. "Lest you be shunned".

Sure: Don't we wish we could convert everyone to our view "so they don't shun us". But you agree that's not possible . So maybe you can apply your own post, and "not admit it". Yes there are things in life we do, yet don't admit it, flaunt it, boast about it, etc... (like picking your nose, etc....)

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL View post
.... There is no logic in morals, s....

Yes. We already know you don't opine in objective morality. Instead, you opine in subjective morality. You already made that clear before.
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  #38  
Old 06-23-2022, 05:46 PM
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The cemetary where my folks are buried is bordered by a large bayou on one side and there is a wide section of property between the street that runs through and the bayou.I, have no qualms about detecting this ground,there,s no graves there and people often throw their old flowers there.Not to mention a lot of trash I pick up and carry away.I absolutely do not go where the graves are.This is a modern graveyard and no old odd sited graves.The local funeral director I went to school with,he,s the one who locates plots for burials and has a very detailed map of the place.
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  #39  
Old 06-24-2022, 08:23 AM
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Well, then, let's look at this in a different light.

The entire cemetary is owned by some entity, whether it be a church, or funeral home, or something else. You detect there, and they don't like it, then you'll get trespassed. They have every right to call law enforcement and have you cited for the infraction. Personal standards of conduct will have no standing here.
A cemetary is not the same as a city or county park. It's a harsh, but simple reality.

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Old 06-26-2022, 11:50 AM
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I'm afraid if I caught someone digging on a relative's grave they might be needing one of their own.

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