Big Boys Hobbies

dowsing of pictures of land by others

maxxkatt

maxxkatt

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North Atlanta, GA
Ok, one member puts up a picture of a field from google earth. Then he ask others for a dowsing of the picture.

other members give him their dowsing predictions.

How is this even possible?

That is like me taking a picture of a field and asking you to hunt the picture with you XP Deus and you telling me what you find. Or am I missing something here.
 
I know two people who can dowse accurately and I have spent an extensive amount of time with them to avoid water lines, sewer lines, phone lines, etc. before digging. They are more accurate than 811 and 811 promises to be within 36 inches total as in 18 inches right or left. One of these guys can also locate unmarked graves in cemeteries where the head stones have deteriorated and tell whether the buried person is a male or female and their height. It is a serious thing when expensive headstones are being replaced. When a grave site is really old, you cannot find it the normal way with a rod. I thought it was hocus pocus until I saw it and then started digging. Photos? No. They have to walk the ground. The two guys I know are radically different in personalities, age, and life experiences. They do not dowse ground water for wells, oil as in oil wells or anything like that. It is only lines and gravesites.
 
atomicbrh said:
I know two people who can dowse accurately and I have spent an extensive amount of time with them to avoid water lines, sewer lines, phone lines, etc. before digging. They are more accurate than 811 and 811 promises to be within 36 inches total as in 18 inches right or left. One of these guys can also locate unmarked graves in cemeteries and tell whether the buried person is a male or female and their height. It is a serious thing when expensive headstones are being replaced. When a grave site is really old, you cannot find it the normal way with a rod. I thought it was hocus pocus until I saw it and then started digging. Photos? No. They have to walk the ground. The two guys I know are radically different in personalities, age, and life experiences.
Click to expand...

Then if I were you, I'd get those "two people" to subject themselves to double-blind testing. Because if they can do as-you-say, with double-blind safeguards in place, then there are scientists and groups who have been BEGGING for years, to have anyone show them this supposed ability.

But I'll bet you a crisp $100 bill, that your two friends will never subject themselves to being tested in rigorous academic scientific fashion. So It will always remain anecdotal testimonials. And all the *usual excuses* will come out as to why they will refuse to be tested. Or why, when tested, they fail.

Care to take me up on my $100 bet ? :cool3:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Then if I were you, I'd get those "two people" to subject themselves to double-blind testing. Because if they can do as-you-say, with double-blind safeguards in place, then there are scientists and groups who have been BEGGING for years, to have anyone show them this supposed ability.

But I'll bet you a crisp $100 bill, that your two friends will never subject themselves to being tested. It will always remain anecdotal. And all the *usual excuses* will come out as to why they will refuse to be tested, or why when tested, they fail.

Care to take me up on my $100 bet ? :cool3:
Click to expand...

Tom, one is retired and just volunteers to help get veterans headstones correct. The other is a landscaper who digs Monday through Friday installing sprinkler systems. When the landscaper friend dowses, one of his employees walks up to him, holds a string with a plumb bob at the intersection of the two rods to put a flag pin down. This is not just one or two flag pins but sometimes hundreds to accurately mark the entire length of very long buried lines. I am not into betting and like you I was skeptical until I saw it and started digging up lines with pinpoint accuracy. It is just a common tool to these two guys and I can tell you they have no concern about defending the method. I have no "feelings" about defending it either just describing what I saw with my own eyes. Thus I will not argue the point. I personally have no desire to try dowsing. If you ever come to my area, I will ask the landscape guy to dowse for you but if it is not where you can see it on a job it will cost you his companies' regular hourly rate which I am sure is well over a $100 per hour now. Six years ago, the last time he did some work for us, it was $85 per hour. It has most likely gone up.
(Summary: No excuses usual or otherwise. These two friends do not care about proving something that is as common to them as a shovel or hammer.)
 
atomicbrh said:
Tom, one is retired and just volunteers to help get veterans headstones correct. The other is a landscaper who digs Monday through Friday installing sprinkler systems. When the landscaper friend dowses, one of his employees walks up to him, holds a string with a plumb bob at the intersection of the two rods to put a flag pin down. This is not just one or two flag pins but sometimes hundreds to accurately mark the entire length of very long buried lines. I am not into betting and like you I was skeptical until I saw it and started digging up lines with pinpoint accuracy. It is just a common tool to these two guys and I can tell you they have no concern about defending the method. I have no "feelings" about defending it either just describing what I saw with my own eyes. Thus I will not argue the point. I personally have no desire to try dowsing. If you ever come to my area, I will ask the landscape guy to dowse for you but if it is not where you can see it on a job it will cost you his companies' regular hourly rate which I am sure is well over a $100 per hour now. Six years ago, the last time he did some work for us, it was $85 per hour. It has most likely gone up.
(Summary: No excuses usual or otherwise. These two friends do not care about proving something that is as common to them as a shovel or hammer.)
Click to expand...

This certainly seems to be a paradox, doesn't it?
 
atomicbrh said:
... These two friends do not care about proving something ...
Click to expand...

This is one of the "usual excuses" I alluded to . I've heard it over and over. Eg.: "We have no desire to prove anything...", etc.... So as you can see, my $100 bet remains safe.

The claims remain anecdotal subjective testimonials. And none of these guys ever lets these glowing testimonies be tested with double blind rigorous safeguards.

Gee, I wonder why ? :?:
 
While I don't necessarily believe in dowsing and have no experience with it, I can somewhat understand the concept behind how dowsing might work with buried lines. After all, you have a line that is emitting EMI. Perhaps a great dowser in some way detects the EMI, I'm not saying yes or no. Where you absolutely lose me though is in attempting to claim that said dowser can tell whether the body in the grave is male or female and height. There's just no way. If these graves are as old as you say they are, those "bodies" in most instances are nothing but bones or less. Also, there may be parts of the coffin or other items they were buried with that would give off EMI. If someone is actually placing new headstones based on a dowser stating whether the remains are male or female, well, that's fool's gold to me. Not looking for an argument, I appreciate your story atomic and just stating my opinion. I also understand that you have enough personal experience with this that my opinion isn't going to change yours. Just my 2 cents. Thanks
 
Silverhorse65 said:
While I don't necessarily believe in dowsing and have no experience with it, I can somewhat understand the concept behind how dowsing might work with buried lines. After all, you have a line that is emitting EMI. Perhaps a great dowser in some way detects the EMI, I'm not saying yes or no. Where you absolutely lose me though is in attempting to claim that said dowser can tell whether the body in the grave is male or female and height. There's just no way. If these graves are as old as you say they are, those "bodies" in most instances are nothing but bones or less. Also, there may be parts of the coffin or other items they were buried with that would give off EMI. If someone is actually placing new headstones based on a dowser stating whether the remains are male or female, well, that's fool's gold to me. Not looking for an argument, I appreciate your story atomic and just stating my opinion. I also understand that you have enough personal experience with this that my opinion isn't going to change yours. Just my 2 cents. Thanks
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing. M/F sex ? I think the only 1 who could do that might be a witch , heretic or something. Not someone I would care to hang out with. 👹⚰
 
KOB said:
I was thinking the same thing. M/F sex ? I think the only 1 who could do that might be a witch , heretic or something. Not someone I would care to hang out with. 👹⚰
Click to expand...

There is no witchcraft or "magic" involved with what I observed.
Two rods make a definite intersection when a buried line or the border to a grave is encountered.
A single rod rotates in one direction for female and the other direction for male.
I am just describing my direct observation.
Up until about 6 years ago, I also thought it was con artist stuff like quiji boards.
 
Silverhorse65 said:
.... I can somewhat understand the concept behind how dowsing might work with buried lines. After all, you have a line that is emitting EMI. Perhaps a great dowser in some way detects the EMI,....
Click to expand...


Great. Wonderful. Let's see it performed under double-blind scientific testing.

If there is a "concept", fine : Let's see it be scrutinized. To make sure that other more-plausible benign explanations don't perfectly explain the anecdotal testimonies that always surround this.

After all: A metal detector can be said to work with testing : Set the detector up on a table. Turn it on. Let 100 people come by and wave a quarter in front of the coil. The machine beeps each time. Amazing. :shock: No matter who they are. No matter how much experience they have waving quarters, etc..... :wow:
 
KOB said:
I was thinking the same thing. M/F sex ?....
Click to expand...

You don't understand how they can determine the sex of the person in the grave ? Then you are not versed in their come-back-explanations. This one is easy . It's chalked up to : "Future unknown science."

Just like scientists once thought the earth was flat. Or that heavier-than-air-flight was impossible, etc.... Yet, as you know, science one day came along and explained it. Tsk tsk. SO TOO will science some day come along and explain dowsing. And will some day come along and explain how they determined M vs F.

See ? Isn't future unknown science wonderful ? It's bullet-proof-circular un-falsifiable logic. You can claim ANYTHING YOU WANT. And if asked for proof, you : a) Avoid testing, and b) chalk up your anecdotal testimonies to future unknown science.

:roll:
 
atomicbrh said:
....
Two rods make a definite intersection when a buried line or the border to a grave is encountered.....
Click to expand...

I noticed the curious use of the word "definite". That seems to imply that it's objective , versus subjective . And seems to imply it's concrete, rather than nebulous. And seems to imply it can be proven (lest how else is it "definite" ?), as opposed to mere unproven. Ie.: It's not mere anecdotal testimonies. But rather: It's "definite"

Have I understood you correctly ? If so, GREAT ! Let's get those persons out to show their "definite" results . In a double-blind rigorous academic study !
 
Have you seen the videos, of the persons (top of their trade/class mind you) who have subjected their abilities to testing ? It's quite an eye-opener. And as soon as their abilities fail, then all the usual fall-backs come out : "Durned those solar flares anyhow" :roll: Or "someone must have a magnet in their pocket near by" :roll: or "I have nothing to prove", blah blah blah.

Sigh :no:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Great. Wonderful. Let's see it performed under double-blind scientific testing.

If there is a "concept", fine : Let's see it be scrutinized. To make sure that other more-plausible benign explanations don't perfectly explain the anecdotal testimonies that always surround this.

After all: A metal detector can be said to work with testing : Set the detector up on a table. Turn it on. Let 100 people come by and wave a quarter in front of the coil. The machine beeps each time. Amazing. :shock: No matter who they are. No matter how much experience they have waving quarters, etc..... :wow:
Click to expand...

I certainly don't disagree Tom. We're definitely not talking hard science and double-blind studies when it comes to dowsing. It's certainly only in the realm of Pseudo-science at best. One thought comes to mind, how do they prove sex of the body in the grave? You'd have to dig it up and do actual DNA testing, which of course, is hard science. By definition, if you don't know there's a grave there, you don't know there's a body there, and you can't confirm sex without grave robbing:shock:
 
Silverhorse65 said:
.... We're definitely not talking hard science and double-blind studies when it comes to dowsing. ....
Click to expand...

Silverhorse65 : You have just distanced yourself from the ranks of half the dowsers. They WILL INDEED claim it is scientific. Albeit future unknown science.

And why can't they just double down and admit that it's pseudo-science ? Because that would be admitting that it doesn't work.

And why can't they do what the other half of the dowsers do: Chalk the supposed ability up to some sort of mystical paranormal power/experience ? EASY : Because that would enter into the realm of the occult . Ie.: why not simply use an ouija board ? Or hold a seance ? Or use tarot cards ?

The moment they start attributing any supposed results to THAT, is the moment it enters into hocus pocus, or occult, or whatever. AND WE SIMPLY CAN'T GO THERE ! :roll: So they rush back to the "science" explanation (albeit future science).

And what is so hilarious, is they do this "shuffle" IN THE SAME BREATH ! So if you go to critique the science, presto: They're off to new-age-type explanations (hocus pocus). If you go to critique the hocus pocus explanations, the presto, they're back to science. It's quite comical :roll:
 
Silverhorse65 said:
I certainly don't disagree Tom. We're definitely not talking hard science and double-blind studies when it comes to dowsing. It's certainly only in the realm of Pseudo-science at best. One thought comes to mind, how do they prove sex of the body in the grave? You'd have to dig it up and do actual DNA testing, which of course, is hard science. By definition, if you don't know there's a grave there, you don't know there's a body there, and you can't confirm sex without grave robbing:shock:
Click to expand...

These days I don't know if you can determine the gender of a person if they are alive and you can see the biology standing naked right in front of you. Seriously though if someone believes it works for them and they can rationalize their results why do we even care it we think it's fake or or really does work. If it make them happy and it works for them, more power to them. It's not hurting me any either way. No different from ghosts' aliens or honest lawyers. (no offence if anyone is a lawyer on here)
 
T-Man said:
... why do we even care it we think it's fake or or really does work. If it make them happy and it works for them, more power to them.....
Click to expand...

The answer is simple : Because they go beyond "happiness" claims. They are making truth claims. That are OBJECTIVE and not "subjective". Ie.: "IT WORKS" . Not "it makes me happy "

And thus, presto, the moment someone makes truth-claims, then sure, it's only fair for an observer to say : "Show me".

No one doubts for a moment that it makes them happy. That is not what's at stake here. What's at stake here is: Can they do as they claim.

Ok ?
 
T-Man said:
These days I don't know if you can determine the gender of a person if they are alive and you can see the biology standing naked right in front of you. Seriously though if someone believes it works for them and they can rationalize their results why do we even care it we think it's fake or or really does work. If it make them happy and it works for them, more power to them. It's not hurting me any either way. No different from ghosts' aliens or honest lawyers. (no offence if anyone is a lawyer on here)
Click to expand...

You should be able to determine the sex of someone if naked!😂🤣
 
metaladdict said:
You should be able to determine the sex of someone if naked!😂🤣
Click to expand...

You are obviously not "woke" yet. Don't you know that gender/sex is utterly and totally up to the the whim of individuals these days ? If tomorrow you claim "You're a woman", then presto: You're a woman. And no amount of looking at genitals has anything to do with it anymore.

In order to be a docent at a museum I work at, I had to take a diversity sensitivity training course. And I was shocked that at one part, it said that doctors "assign" sex at birth. Notice the curious wording : It's no longer that doctors "observe" the gender (whether or not the baby has indoor or outdoor plumbing). It's not "observed" anymore. It's now "assigned" . By that mean cruel evil doctor, I suppose ? :?:


Tsk tsk :roll:
 
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