Consequences for detecting in parks without permit?

styler1234

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south milwaukee
I live in Wisconsin, where they have made detecting in state parks virtually impossible. You need a permit to find ONLY a specific item and nothing over 50 years old can be kept. They are trying to protect the 'copper culture' artifacts I imagine. However, county and local parks have different rules and are much more lenient. Although I plan to mostly detect permissions, I think some of my travels to the water's edge will bring me into some of these county and local parks.

My question is, has anyone ever had their metal detector confiscated? Has anyone gotten fines? My imagination tells me that what usually would happen is a warning and I leave. But I am a little worried about risking my new Equinox 800! Maybe I'll carry my old old Garret in the trunk as a sacrifice! I guess it's just easier to follow the rules, but, geez, they make it so tough sometimes.
 
I live in Wisconsin, where they have made detecting in state parks virtually impossible. You need a permit to find ONLY a specific item and nothing over 50 years old can be kept. They are trying to protect the 'copper culture' artifacts I imagine. However, county and local parks have different rules and are much more lenient. Although I plan to mostly detect permissions, I think some of my travels to the water's edge will bring me into some of these county and local parks.

My question is, has anyone ever had their metal detector confiscated? Has anyone gotten fines? My imagination tells me that what usually would happen is a warning and I leave. But I am a little worried about risking my new Equinox 800! Maybe I'll carry my old old Garret in the trunk as a sacrifice! I guess it's just easier to follow the rules, but, geez, they make it so tough sometimes.


Google might give you the answer.
 
... You need a permit to find ONLY a specific item and nothing over 50 years old can be kept. They are trying to protect the 'copper culture' artifacts I imagine....

You think that the genesis of this is that they are "trying to protect the copper culture". Ok ,sure, this may be their "go-to" answer (if some md'r asks them "why ?"). Ok. But guess how it arrived on their desks, needing this-type-princely answer, IN THE FIRST PLACE ? I have a sneaking suspicion that no one in those positions-of-decision had any concerns or worries whatsoever, decades back. I mean, do you really think someone all-of-the-sudden started worrying 'gee, md'rs might find native/natural copper, oh me oh my !" and hence, made this rule ? No, I doubt it. Something put it on their desk as a "pressing issue" that needed a "pressing answer", hence, the rules/laws you lament. Care to guess what got that ball rolling ?

And these VERY SAME powers-that-be, who perhaps truly did roll out such rules, perhaps might never have given the matter a moments thought (even if/when driving past md'rs), UNLESS it were on-their-desk for decision-matters. Then gee, the ramifications must-be-processed, and their signature/decision must go on this "pressing matter". Presto, another law is born :mad:

... My question is, has anyone ever had their metal detector confiscated? Has anyone gotten fines?.....

My challenge and suspicion is, that whenever you read on md'ing forums about "fines" and "confiscations" for md'ing, is that the ONLY time you will EVER get examples, is when it's for someone night-sneaking obvious historic monuments, or someone being obnoxious who can't take a warning, etc.....



Google might give you the answer.


When I have floated my challenge in the past, various people have done JUST THAT. And they have a pretty-durned hard time to find ANY examples of "fines" "confiscations", "tickets" etc... for md'ing . As long as it's for the parameters I'm giving : Any examples of such "imminent risk" (tickets, confiscations, etc...) they can find will invariably be for sensitive historic spots, or someone sneaking around, or someone being obnoxious, etc... Or someone who, with an ounce of common sense, could have known better for certain locations.

On the RARE occasion that someone can find an example of someone being "roughed up" for detecting a seemingly innocuous spot, here's what I have to say about that :

It's true that if you scoured the entire USA's newspaper headlines for decades of google news searches, that, sure: You can ALWAYS find flukes in life. For example, I have a newspaper article of someone who got a ticket by a cop for eating a hamburger while driving. (I think the cop called it "distracted driving" or whatever). Ok, will you now stop eating munchies while driving ? Or do you realize that this is a fluke ?

I suppose there's been people who got the riot act for taking the tag off of their mattress. I mean, at what point will you even step out your front door in the morning ? Sheesk :wow:

By all means, don't throw caution to the wind, don't waltz over other people's beach blankets at an archie convention, etc..... But at a certain point, I think that we md'rs can worry ourselves silly, as if we're doing something evil that "everyone supposedly hates", blah blah.

On the contrary, when I'm out and about, it's just the opposite. People come up and ask "what's the best thing you've ever found", and "where can I buy one of those ?", etc.... Cops just drive past and pay-no-mind, etc..... So why this attitude that we must worry at every turn that we're somehow "doing something wrong", blah blah ? :?:
 
.... However, county and local parks have different rules and are much more lenient. ...

Not sure what you mean by that. Are you scouring the "county and local" muni rules/laws for specific allowances ? Eg.: Specific mention that "md'ing is allowed" ?

Or are you referring to that md'ing is simply not listed as specifically disallowed ? In which case, if it's not listed as prohibited, then presto: It's not disallowed ? :roll:

If you scour "county and local" laws long enough (as it pertains to park usage, muni laws, etc....) and if you stood on one foot and squinted real hard, then you can ALWAYS find stuff that *could* be construed to apply to us. Eg.: alter and deface verbiage. Harvest and remove language. Cultural heritage. Lost & found, etc..... Does anyone really care or apply this to a casual md'r working the sand box ? OF COURSE NOT. But could they ? Sure ! And what's the fastest way to get that ball rolling for the "new rule to be born" : Ask them : Can I detect ? Then we start playing Russian roulette with whose desk this pressing question lands on, what their mood is, blah blah
 
Hi Styler,

I hunted Milwaukee County parks quite a bit in 2020. I have never been questioned by anyone yet (well, except kids and curious adults already in the park). I tend to keep a low profile, hunt when it's less populated, dig very neat plugs, and I don't carry a shovel. Anyway, here's the official parks dept answer:

https://mkecoparks.helpscoutdocs.com/article/269-can-i-use-a-metal-detector-in-the-park

So technically no permit is needed and you can detect, but you can't "dig". Uh-huh. Obviously I agree with Tom's thoughts on this very much!

But... a friend was stopped by a park worker in a service truck in Washington Park (very old Milwaukee park for you non-native Milwaukee folk) just a few months ago. She told him metal detecting was not allowed in the park (which, as stated in the url, isn't the truth), so he left.

I definitely would stay away from state parks, and if you leave Milwaukee County be sure to read any ordinances other counties might have. they can vary park to park, FYI. In Waukesha for their county parks for example, you need one of their free yearly permits – BUT they are only good for select parks.

Happy hunting.
 
I have never had my detector confiscated but have been asked to leave several times.
One time a sheriff at the Sonoma central square park said I could get a ticket and said it was not legal to detect in the lawn.:shock:
I can detect at the sandy playground there though.
 
...She told him metal detecting was not allowed in the park (which, as stated in the url, isn't the truth), so he left.....

.... and said it was not legal to detect in the lawn.:shock: ....


Well sure, better not to argue with persons-in-the-field. Better to give "lip service". But a lot of times, md'rs construe "scrams" like this to constitute gospel law. Ie.: when someone in authority tells them: "Not allowed", then: It's pretty hard to argue with a badge, or duly appointed park-personnel, eh ? :shock: So the md'r tucks his tail under his legs, and leaves. And then dutifully tells all his buddies , and posts on-line, that "such & such city is illegal".

Then guess what happens next ? Others, in an attempt to "get to the bottom of this" will go swatting hornet's nests and asking silly questions at city halls. To dispute a "scram", or "get it clarified", etc... Thus only leading to more "no's", blah blah.

Here's a post about this phenomenon :

http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=278842
 
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Thank you Tosamike and Metaladdict. That's really all I was asking, what were the practical experiences of people who frequently metal detect. I suspected most of the time it was a warning type thing, and yes, Tom, I would just leave and find somewhere else, I am not looking to spearhead a movement, just find a few things and stay active.

Might want to change the name of this group though, geez. 'Google it' and '
warrior metal detecting' are still available.
 
I've had the cops called on me a few times, and every time they say carry on, no worries.

I once got a "speeding ticket" for driving too slow. Talk about bizarre. No hamburger involved; fortunately, I guess.

In PA state parks you can detect so long as you get oral permission from the park office. However, the only digging tool you may use is a screwdriver. I imagine that there might be some pretty big screws out there, but WDIK?

As for hornet's nests, always a bad idea to stir them up. True story -- when I was 10, and doing yardwork, I hit a hornet's nest with a weed cutting tool. Trust me, do not stir up hornet's nests. The hornets are quite content in their nest if no one bothers them.
 
Cops are all different IMO. I have had several called on me over time, most are cool and say, "I see what you're doing, it isn't illegal, we just received a call. Have a good day." Sampson hanging off the belt carrier most times. One particular time, a local cop, literally drove his SUV across the grass to where I had a 6" plug flipped up and the Sampson was laying right next to the hole. He stopped to ask questions about getting a detector for one of his kids, and we talked like friends for several minutes. There was no mention of my dug hole, not even comments like, "Be careful with your holes." Most LEOs did say that though.

Then other LEOs have approached and kept their hand on their side arm, standing stiff. They had no sense of humor at all. If I was told to leave, then that's just what I did. I've actually gotten suggestions for other municipal grounds by the friendlier ones.
 
....

In PA state parks you can detect so long as you get oral permission from the park office. However, the only digging tool you may use is a screwdriver. .....


Is this in actual PA state-park's wording ? Or just some sort of answer to some past FAQ ? Either way, I have a sneaking suspicion of how such notions came into being. In fact, I have strong proof when it comes to this knee-jerk pat answers of "with permission from park office" or "ask at each kiosk you come to " blah blah type answer, that then creeps into some supposed actual rules or FAQ that evolves. Then, sure as heck, now legions of md'rs are dutifully showing up grovelling for their 'permission' (as if our hobby is evil and needs permission in the first place).

And once THAT happens, then some day, sure as heck, eventually someone in authority is gonna say : "Gee, do we really want all these yahoos out there digging the place up and taking 'artifacts', blah blah ?" :roll:

So where oh where did this "with permission" or "ask at each individual kiosk" supposed answer/rule start ? Care to take a guess ?
 
Our city park, that is smack dab in the middle of town, was a Civil War(Calvary), and Spanish American War training camp. There is also another park they created, where there was another training camp (Infantry)... There is another, that was a cotton mill picnic area in the 70's, and has an old early 1800's mill site on it. I called the head of the parks, and he said no, no digging allowed in any park.

But I have talked to someone that told me, the inner city park was trashy, but you could find something neat once in awhile. I was curious as to how he was able to detect there, but didn't ask. It's also in a high crime area right now.
 
Originally Posted by randy View post
....

In PA state parks you can detect so long as you get oral permission from the park office. However, the only digging tool you may use is a screwdriver. .....


Is this in actual PA state-park's wording ? Or just some sort of answer to some past FAQ ? Either way, I have a sneaking suspicion of how such notions came into being. In fact, I have strong proof when it comes to this knee-jerk pat answers of "with permission from park office" or "ask at each kiosk you come to " blah blah type answer, that then creeps into some supposed actual rules or FAQ that evolves. Then, sure as heck, now legions of md'rs are dutifully showing up grovelling for their 'permission' (as if our hobby is evil and needs permission in the first place).

And once THAT happens, then some day, sure as heck, eventually someone in authority is gonna say : "Gee, do we really want all these yahoos out there digging the place up and taking 'artifacts', blah blah ?" :roll:

So where oh where did this "with permission" or "ask at each individual kiosk" supposed answer/rule start ? Care to take a guess ?

Wrong answer randy. I detect some PA state parks that require you get a permit that lasts a year and I can use a shovel. The park rangers have no problem with me as long as I fill in the holes.

Steve
 
Originally Posted by randy View post
....

In PA state parks you can detect so long as you get oral permission from the park office. However, the only digging tool you may use is a screwdriver. .....




Wrong answer randy. I detect some PA state parks that require you get a permit that lasts a year and I can use a shovel. The park rangers have no problem with me as long as I fill in the holes.

Steve

I’ve never had an issue with any park rangers. Fill your holes and they don’t care. They even wish you good luck.
 
Our city park, that is smack dab in the middle of town, was a Civil War(Calvary), and Spanish American War training camp. There is also another park they created, where there was another training camp (Infantry)... There is another, that was a cotton mill picnic area in the 70's, and has an old early 1800's mill site on it. I called the head of the parks, and he said no, no digging allowed in any park.

But I have talked to someone that told me, the inner city park was trashy, but you could find something neat once in awhile. I was curious as to how he was able to detect there, but didn't ask. It's also in a high crime area right now.

I love it. I absolutely love it. Welcome to becoming the latest victim of the "No one cared ... UNTIL you asked" club :shock: And shame on the other guy for not asking, eh ? :roll:

As for the "pat answer" you got to your "pressing question", I got news for you: There's not a single park, in the entire USA, that doesn't likewise have boiler-plate verbiage to the same effect. In some form or fashion. Usually "alter" and "deface", blah blah. Yet : Take a look on ANY md'ing forum show & tell section, and you will see NO SHORTAGE of md'rs showing off their latest finds from parks.

How do they do it ? Are we/they all a bunch of lawless miscreants ? What's going on ? Do you think they went in ahead of time asking "Hi, can I dig in the park please ?" and got permission ? No. Here's the scenario: If you leave no trace of your presence, (cover, stomp, fluff, etc...) then technically you haven't alterED or defacED anything. Right ? And yes, I'd apply the same logic for dig vs dug . It's merely a spelling exercise that we don't spell it diggED (present vs past tense, same as alter vs altered).

Will every single busy-body agree with those semantics ? Of course not. So go at lower traffic times and avoid those rare singular individuals. But don't become the latest victim of "no one cared till you asked" club.

And as far as your individual city, if the particular parks that you speak of are .... ahem .... obvious historic sensitive monuments, then of course use common sense. Even if there were not a specific "no md'ing" rule in a place like that, I'd still choose low traffic times so as not to offend the squeamish. Because, let's be honest: We are in an odd-ball hobby that has connotations. And NO AMOUNT of grovelling ahead-of-time changes that. It only ACCELERATES any potential "no's". So, like nose-picking, don't stick out like a sore thumb.

Don't overthink it. 99.999% of passerbys could care less when passing by an md'r. They don't even pay you a moment's notice. In fact, it's quite the opposite in my experience. They ask "what's the best thing you've ever found" etc.... But sure, if you're going to be doing nice manicured turf, or it's got a sensitive monument on it, then sure, don't stick out like a sore thumb.
 
.... and I can use a shovel. The park rangers have no problem with me as long as I fill in the holes....

AAaahhh, but Steve, don't you realize what you did wrong ? You didn't ask long enough and hard enough, and beat enough drums, asking higher and higher : "Can I dig with shovel in the park ?". If you had done so, then you too could have been told "no". Or "only a screwdriver" blah blah. Shame on you ! tsk tsk :laughing:
 
I’ve never had an issue with any park rangers. Fill your holes and they don’t care.....

I'll bet you that if you told me which parks you're talking about, and gave me 1 hr, I could find someone there who "cares". All I need to do is go higher and higher up that chain of command, asking "Gee, is it really fair that party-of-one is taking and removing things, and digging holes, in the park ? Gee, is that allowed ? I mean, gee, what if he disturbs an Indian bone ? " :shock: And then I sit back and wait for the "no's" to fill my in-box.

Thus, shame on you for not asking high enough up the chain-of-command, and phrasing your question in-such-a-way as to "mince words" as to your true intentions. Tsk tsk.
 
The city of Charleston SC has a law that prohibits detecting on any city property. I was detecting a piece of their property one day and had a city policer officer sit and watch me for about 15 minutes. He never got out of his vehicle and finally moved along.

Another city i was told i could not detect a piece of property. I told the Lady that i had checked the city rules and had not found any rule or regulation that prohibited me from detecting that property. I asked her if she could direct me to the law rule, regulation. She became very frustrated and said you will have to leave. I still have not found any rule, regulation or law that would prohibit me from detecting that property. Another case of a bureaucrat wanting to use their power.
 
.... I told the Lady that i had checked the city rules and had not found any rule or regulation that prohibited me from detecting that property. I asked her if she could direct me to the law rule, regulation. She became very frustrated and said you will have to leave. I still have not found any rule, regulation or law that would prohibit me from detecting that property.....

George, a few observations on this :

1) I'm afraid you would have a hard time disputing that lady. Because, unfortunately, a person-in-authority like that can hinge their "scram" on other verbiage. Eg.: Harvest & remove, alter & deface, lost & found laws, cultural heritage, or harming wildlife (since you cut earthworms in half).

I too used to think their had to be a specific express "no md'ing" rule or law. But I had a long talk with a lawyer friend of mine. And this was the conclusion. And while I KNOW that sounds capricious and whimsical (for a cop or gardener to be whimsically interpreting like that, on-the-spot in-the-field), yet it has to be that way. Laws, after all, are written with wiggle room after all, so-as-to apply to a myriad of things that could arise in the field. So that's why, for example, there vague laws for things to forbid "annoyances" or "obstructions", etc....

And sure, you can dispute them and try to say "it doesn't apply", and demand a ticket I suppose. And then go let a judge sort it out. You might prevail, you might not. But it's much better to simply give lip service, and come back later when the singular lookie-lou isn't around. Because if you/me/us "make a stink", it's possible that a city, who is NOW APPRAISED of this "pressing issue", (and sees a loophole or lack-of-specifics), can simply MAKE a rule.

So it's better just to give lip service, give the place a rest, and then choose better times later on, when the singular griper aint around. Like nose-picking: It's not illegal, nor do you need anyone's permission, but .... sometimes you need to choose discreet times, so as not to offend the squeamish.

.... Another case of a bureaucrat wanting to use their power.

Well, I'm not sure what preceded this event. Had you gone in asking "Hi, can I detect ?" If so, I'd say that .... no , it's not a "power" thing. It's merely a "safe answer" to a question you're asking. Because perhaps she envisioned geeks with shovels.

And ... think of it : The MERE FACT that you were standing their asking her, simply PRESUMES she has the say-so and authority and power to ANSWER the question (lest why else would you have been asking her ?). So to even ask someone IN THE FIRST PLACE , simply assumes/implies their say-so or opinion is needed. And with that ball in their court, they're simply answering your question with the princely say-so that you've implicitly granted them before you've even started.

But if you meant that she accosted you in the field somewhere, I don't think it's necessarily a power-trip either (although it could have been). What I mean is, if you were in nice-manicured turf, let's be honest: MD'ing has connotations.

Or if this happened in-the-field, then here's another possible reason: Prior to your encounter, perhaps someone else had been at her desk (or emailing or calling her), and ... she passed out the safe answer to something that perhaps would NEVER have crossed her mind. So then guess what happens when she's out and about, and see another md'r elsewhere ? She see you, and subconsciously remembers the earlier inquiry. And thinks "Aha! there's one of *them* ". And starts booting others. I've see this happen !! Ie.: The old "no on cared UNTIL someone asked" routine :mad:
 
Wrong answer randy. I detect some PA state parks that require you get a permit that lasts a year and I can use a shovel. The park rangers have no problem with me as long as I fill in the holes.

Steve

No, I am not wrong, and only one park ever gave me a year long paper permit.

From the DCNR website --

"Shovels, spades, garden trowels, and other similar tools may not be used to dig into or turn over ground areas that are covered by turf, vegetation, shrubs, or trees. The only permissible digging tools are screwdrivers, ice picks, and other similar narrow pronged devices."

https://www.dcnr.pa.gov/StateParks/RulesAndRegulations/MetalDetecting/Pages/default.aspx

Technically, you could use a shovel on the beach or underwater, I guess, if you wish to remain compliant with the posted rule. Whether you wish to comply with the posted rule, or a ranger gives you permission to use a spade on land other than a beach is an ethical question beyond the scope of my reply.
 
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