UV Lights and Fluorescent Minerals - a fun side hobby to metal detecting !

KingTotsalot said:

Believe it or not, there has been and still is a lot of research into the invention of a new type of SW UV emitter, but up til now no one has been able to get past a tube situation…until a few years back LW UV was stuck in the same situation, until the invention of the CREE led and new types of LW UV filters, then several portable very powerful 365 nm flashlights appeared on the scene. But for now we just have to have patience until some innovative inventor finds the right combination! So, tho we may dream of such a lamp, it is not yet available!

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GKL said:

Hope you enjoyed the animation

Actually just doing some online research today and it seems they do have a SW LED flashlight available, just not in the USA, seems like it's unavailability in the USA is due to a patent dispute.

Here is a discussion thread where I read some info about it -

https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/q0hdo0/worlds_first_shortwave_255nm_flashlight_that_you/

Hopefully we can find a way to buy them, and they are not super expensive

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KingTotsalot said:

Unfortunately the patent dispute has prevented these UV SW lamps from being marketed in the USA. So KT does stand corrected but is still somewhat correct in that such a lamp is not available presently in the USA. There are a lot of warnings concerning UVC lamps because of the potential to receive burns to your eyes and skin, even off of reflective surfaces. So even if it were available now, which it is not, the user would need to take much more care in the use of it, especially when showing fluorescent minerals to other people.

If you find a source overseas, and decide to go there and buy one direct, let me know and KT will send some money to you to get His Majesty one too!

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GKL said:

Don't feel bad, it was a big surprise to me too when I read about that yesterday.

Previously in the past I had heard they had made some SW UV LEDs but that the power level was still too low, I guess they resolved that problem.

Agreed that extra care needs to be taken with any SW UV. A good SW UV LED flashlight would be nice to use hunting for SW specimens in the field too, IF you can find a field with SW specimens

I'd love to have a SW UV LED version of the UV Beast flashlight to go along with the 365nm one !

I VERY likely would NOT be going overseas myself , but I have been checking for online sources for SW UV LED flashlights, but I'd have to feel very confident of both the trustworthiness of the company selling it as well as the quality of the flashlight itself first before even considering such a purchase, I wish they had them on Amazon, I feel more confident buying from Amazon

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GKL said:

More neat specimens indeed KT !

There seems to be a lot more varieties of fluorescent minerals than what I likely thought when I first got interested in fluorescent minerals !

Why do places like Afghanistan and New Jersey seem to hog so many specimens, they need to seed every state with more specimens to promote the hobby

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KingTotsalot said:

I did a thorough search on eBay under various name combinations with 255nm attached and had no success. And unfortunately, Amazon will not touch it due to the patent situation. I do know what you mean about ordering overseas via eBay or other ways. KT has ordered 100s if not 1000s of items off of eBay over the past 10 years, and the only ones He has ever had problems with were from overseas, particularly China. Either lost in shipping or misrepresentation of the item. In all but one, KT got a refund through PayPal. KT's US shippers and sellers are tops! Most often delivered before expected date! Some people hate eBay, but when looking for certain items, you just cannot go to Walmart, Costco, Target, or your local hardware store and find them....plus all the wasted time and expense driving around locally!

The principal thing on this SW flashlight is the special filter, that is where the patent hassle springs from, imho.

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KingTotsalot said:

To produce spectacular fluorescent specimens, there needs to be unusual conditions for the minerals to form, and to get multiple minerals that fluoresce to form together is even more unusual. That is why multi-color specimens are more desired by collectors. There are several deposits in the world that produce spectacular specimens, a couple in the USA and Canada, a couple in the Scandanavian countries, a few sites in China and Afghanistan, just as there are only a few sites that produce commercially viable gems, like Myanmar (Burma) for rubies and sapphires, Brazil for emeralds, etc. There are many sites for rubies, sapphires, and emeralds, but the best come from certain deposits in those specific areas. Why? It all goes back to the local geology and the conditions that existed during formation.

When KT was a young kinglet, there were several local people who had interesting fluorescent collections, but mostly single colored pieces....like orange, green, red, white, blue, yellow, but now folks want orange and red, blue, green and orange, blue, green and red, yellow, blue, and red. And KT will admit that the textures of those specimens are more interesting with a UV lamp.

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KingTotsalot said:

AND in the past 50 years there have been tremendous advancements in technology...the UV lamps of yesterday are a poor representation of what these new lamps are.

Therefore, many more minerals have been discovered that have a fluorescent response to UV!

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KingTotsalot said:

Here is a specimen that if not for its interesting fluorescence would likely have been left in the field!

It is a crust of tiny calcite crystals on a tan sedimentary host rock. The specimen came from Mount Pleasant Mills, Snyder Co., PA. KT was attracted to it for two reasons...first, for calcite pastel yellow is an uncommon fluorescent color....typically people collect showy fluorescent specimens of calcite that display bright orange red, bluish white, or pinkish red, but this piece is plain old creamy yellow
...Kinda like picking vanilla when you got 31 choices!

But something intriged KT when He saw in the Sellers pictures two spots in that crust that did not fluoresce. The price with shipping was nominal, so KT ordered it. And in deed, in both LW and SW images below, those spots do not fluoresce, yet in pic 1 there is no apparent mineral change or difference! Very curious and KT will do a bit more checking of this piece with His Royal Stereo Microscope before filing the specimen away in the Royal Collection.

Anyway, here are the pictures. First in natural light, second in LW UV 365nm, and the final one in SW UV 254nm. Surprisingly very little difference in response to the different UV wave lengths. Enjoy!

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GKL said:

Hey I agree those 2 spots that don't fluoresce do make it an interesting "vanilla" specimen

What also seems somewhat unusual to me is how that one larger spot seems unusually round, would that be unusual in such a rock ? (also interesting that there is little difference between SW and LW)

Ever consider cracking it open some more ? (just joking )

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KingTotsalot said:

KT did a microscopic exam of this piece..the calcite crust, and thinks He knows what is going on….this was a very thin, but open vein in a stratified rock. It was split down that narrow mineralized crack. The attachment points of the calcite where the calcite grew across the open space is where the two larger non-fluorescing spots are as the crystals are broken under the microscope. Something in the last of the forming calcite is causing the yellow fluorescence, but the earlier formed calcite does not fluoresce….that is what is exposed in those two spots, and yes the round shape makes sense with that idea.

If you saw an edge view of this piece, you would recognize it cannot be split any further…it is like 1/2” thick!

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GKL said:

Great detective work KT !!!!

1/2" thick ? wow, just glancing at that pic I obviously did not get that impression

I can understand not wanting to break it down any smaller

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KingTotsalot said:

This sample was a free gift included in with the calcite specimen just previously examined! Some eBay dealers are nice that way and also want to encourage their buyers to get something else!

Anyway, this rock sample contains Manganapatite which is not apparent in natural lighting. It measures about 3.5" across horizontally in the photo. The specimen is from Bennett Quarry, Buckfield, Maine, a well known location for this mineral. In SW UV 254nm, the mineral lights up a nice yellow color!

The 3rd photo is of the very old Ultra Violet Products Co., Inc. lamp that was used as the SW generator for the photo. The company went out of business years ago, but was a major producer of UV lamps in the 1950s through the 1970s. KT bought this lamp with some birthday money in the early 1960s and although it requires a 120v source (it is corded), KT at one time even had a rechargeable battery box for it. His Majesty remembers using his father's cigarette lighter on his car to recharge it....the box weighed around 20 pounds and hung from a shoulder strap when out hunting...it was good for about 1 hour! The electronic had transistors on a board inside it. When it finally broke, probably the batteries just would no longer charge, KT tore it all apart to see what it consisted of. Just like when his Mother's toaster quit working, she let KT have it to see what was inside it! KT's parents aways encouraged their young son's curiosity! Anyway, after some 65 years, this silly UV lamp still works! Over 20 years ago, the LW bulb went bad, and KT purchased a SW bulb, so it is a totally SW unit now...each bulb putting out about 4 watts, so it is an 8 watt unit! Of course, the case is plastic and in time became very brittle, so when KT dropped it once, it shattered...But with some epoxy and invisible tape, KT reassembled the case. With modern vehicles that have a 120V outlet, and a 100' extension cord, His Majesty could still use this in the field in a limited situation. But it is really too old and fragile to do that anymore. So it is restricted to use in the Castle!

Upon close examination of the lamp, you will also see that the filter has been replaced with a more modern filter, and now even it is starting to show degradation as irregular spots and hazy areas on the dark filter.

Anyway, enjoy the pictures and have a great day!

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GKL said:

Interesting sample KT, yellow is a nice color for fluorescence and would make for a nice contrast next to a red specimen and a blue specimen. I never heard of Manganapatite but there are likely many fluorescent minerals I have yet to hear of

I wonder if there still might yet be a few rare minerals out there yet to be put under a UV light to be known as a fluorescent mineral.

I did a search on that company as sometimes you can find some interesting info online even about companies that closed long ago.

Looks like that company seems to have merely changed it's name (if it indeed is the same company), check out this link:

http://www.company7.com/uvp/index.html

quote from the above link: "Known for decades as Ultra Violet Products Co., UVP was founded in 1932 and remains headquartered in the greater Los Angeles area."

Also found doing an online search; (looks like the same as yours)

Mineralight UVSL-13 UV on Ebay (used) -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153681340501

I have read about SW filters degrading over time, do they only degrade from active use or also over time regardless of the amount of use ?

Can you usually expect a SW filter to have at least 5 years of use, 10 years, or even more ?

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KingTotsalot said:

Yes, they may have simply changed their name as they upgraded their products. This “new” type filter is at least 20 years old in my fixture! Mostly it is the amount of usage, the more a filter is used, the faster it degrades. So it has X hours of lifespan. It you never use it, it will last many years. The problem is the bulbs, as they go out more frequently than the electrics or the filter. It might be that these bulbs are still available, but who knows? If I needed one, I would investigate, but as long as this lamp is working, not going to bother. The present 5 watt lamp I have for $140 is a better buy than that used older lamp listed on eBay for $90 simply because of its portability (useable in the field as well as indoors). Also that light has only 1 shortwave bulb, and a long wave bulb. When you use it, pressing the red button and holding it down activates the SW bulb…letting up then activates the LW bulb…both stay on until you touch the black button to turn off the unit. So it has only 4 watts SW, whereas with mine, it has 8 watts of SW the way it is modified.

On a separate note, about that last calcite encrusted specimen. I found online info on the cause of yellow fluorescence of calcite. The presence of traces of hydrocarbons is thought to cause both the yellow color and greenish yellow phosphorescence. So I checked the specimen and yes it does have a greenish yellow distinctive afterglow. So likely near the end of the calcite deposition there was a trace of hydrocarbons in the formational fluids. Finely divided, as they are not visible with the optical microscope. Another riddle solved!

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GKL said:

Now IF I saw such an old UV light in a yard sale for about $20 or so then that would be an easier decision

Again, good detective work KT ! (people might think you're familiar with geology just joking )

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