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-   -   .22 Caliber -- What's Shorter than "Short"? (https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=11191)

Harley-Dog 07-16-2007 06:59 AM

.22 Caliber -- What's Shorter than "Short"?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Found a .22 caliber bullet and casing (unfired) at an old school site. It is the shortest .22 I've ever seen. The bullet is made out of lead -- not sure what the casing is made from. There is the letter "H" on the bottom (manufacturer's mark, no doubt). Has anyone ever seen a .22 this short? Bullet and casing together measures less than 1/2" in length. In one of the accompanying photos I show it with a modern .22 long rifle and a modern .22 short and a dime for perspective. As can be seen, it is MUCH shorter than a .22 short. Any info would be appreciated. Thanx!

Harley-Dog

Arkwater 07-16-2007 07:56 AM

We call em "city rounds" here! Gas charged instead of powder. Not much louder than a pellet rifle, but considerably more effective.

grinsebring 07-16-2007 08:09 AM

"H"
 
The "H" at the bottom of the 22 rimfire cartridge stands for "Henry" the inventor. We call them "22s", back in your great grandfathers day they were called Henry's......another tidbit of useless info I somehow retained over the years. I suffer from "CRS", but remembered that. Go figure..:roll: ..Gil

Voriax 07-16-2007 02:01 PM

Based on the case length that round is a 6mm Flobert. That round was invented in 1845 and is a predecessor of rounds like BB cap, .22 short/long/long rifle.

Voriax

Titan1000 07-16-2007 03:49 PM

I refer to that round as a CB, Cap and Ball

FXDiz 07-16-2007 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan1000 (Post 100621)
I refer to that round as a CB, Cap and Ball

It's not a cap and ball. I have a couple of cap and ball pistols and a cap and ball rifle. Another hobby of mine (of which I have too many of).:roll: The cap and ball are separate from each other (not a cartridge; primer, charge and projectile combined together) where the powder (charge) is loaded into the firearm, then a ball is rammed down on top of the charge. The percussion cap is then placed on a "nipple" behind the charge. If you're interested, See this link.
http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpow...oadcbrev_a.htm

grinsebring 07-16-2007 09:59 PM

CB
 
in reference to the Flobert design probably means Conical Ball, often confused with cap and ball.....That round probably came out of an old amusement park or indoor shooting range..maybe, sort of, not quite sure, possibly, perhaps, don't take it to the bank.........:roll: An interesting find non the less..Gil

73 Springfield 07-23-2007 11:23 PM

CB Cap
 
[QUOTE=FXDiz;100682]It's not a cap and ball. I have a couple of cap and ball pistols and a cap and ball rifle.

Hello, This is my first post on this forum, I'm a relative newby to metal detecting. I've owned detectors for a number of years, but haven't used them all that much until lately, and I've really been getting into this hobby. Anyhow, it looks like a CB Cap to me. We used to buy them by the box when I was a kid. They were a step up from a .22 caliber pellet gun, but still didn't have much power. By step up, I mean no more pumping, but a real cartridge like the adults shot. It was something a parent would turn a country kid loose and let him shoot in those days. I also own cap and ball, and flint lock firearms, and this has nothing to do with muzzleloading. Perhaps you don't know that the US Military still calls some rifle bullets by the name "Ball." A full metal jacket is ball ammunition as opposed to tracer or incendiary. So in this case the term cap and ball simply means that if there is any powder in the case, it's not much more than the primer or cap, and the bullet is called a ball. It's an underpowered cartridge, not just used in amusement parks though, because like I said, I shot a bunch of them when I was a kid. This particular one with an H head stamp might well pre-date CB Caps. Some of the original or perhaps I should say first to be invented cartridge pistols by Smith and Wesson, back in the Civil War days, were underpowered .22 calibers that shot .22 shorts. I have the one my Great Grandfather carried as a hideout gun when he was in the 192 Ohio Infantry. I'm sure as a young kid he though he was well armed. The truth is, if he ever shot a Reb and the guy found out about it, I reckon grandpa would have been in plenty of trouble. My guess is that it probably dates further back than CB Caps, and was perhaps manufactured for a pistol of the type grandpa had. If you have access to one of the repo Sears and Roebuck catalogs from the turn of the century, they sold the same types of pistols and perhaps they would have this type of ammo listed.

FXDiz 07-24-2007 11:38 PM

[QUOTE=73 Springfield;101999]
Quote:

Originally Posted by FXDiz (Post 100682)
It's not a cap and ball. I have a couple of cap and ball pistols and a cap and ball rifle.

Perhaps you don't know that the US Military still calls some rifle bullets by the name "Ball." A full metal jacket is ball ammunition as opposed to tracer or incendiary. So in this case the term cap and ball simply means that if there is any powder in the case, it's not much more than the primer or cap, and the bullet is called a ball.

I'm not sure you directed this toward me but since you quoted my post, I believe it was. I retired from the Navy in 2005 with 30 years of service. Among other things, I was a certified range coach and qualified with every small arm the Navy had at the time, and then some. So yes, I know what ball ammunition is … and tracer and incendiary and explosive and a few others you may not be aware of ... I also know that the round in question is not properly called a cap and ball. It’s a cartridge round regardless of the amount of powder in the case or the shape of the projectile (or the fact that the military calls FMJ ball ammunition). If your post was not directed toward me and just for information purposes, then I humbly apologize for this tirade. To all others in the forum reading this, I do apologize for being a bit unfriendly in this case.

bobbulge 07-25-2007 11:07 AM

I think there is even a 22 magnum and of course the one I have is a 22 HORNET round, the biggest yet almost the size of an m-16 round.

FoilFinder 08-07-2007 08:53 PM

We used to use these quite often back in the 40s and 50s and called them .22 BB caps

bridgeendfarm 08-10-2007 07:52 PM

Many 22s
 
Someone else said it and I agree with them what your pictures are from left to right

22 long rifle
22 long
22 short

They made all 3 in the late 60s and early 70s. I still have a few boxes of each from my younger days.

Helms 08-24-2007 01:31 PM

I would pin that round as a .22 BB cap, unless Voriax is correct and it is indeed 6mm instead of .22 caliber.

BB cap is a Bulleted Breach Cap, also often called CB or Conical Ball cap because most of the time the cap is the only propellant- gunpowder is not used - this similarity in terms often confuses this round with the term "ball and cap" FXDiz is correct in that "ball and cap" refers to muzzle loader ammunition, and all cartridges are breach fed. And there is truth to the "ball" ammo as well. Perhaps this type of round would be more accurately shortened "ball cap" ammo? just forget the "and" part or it gets into different territory... and now that I think of it, a "ball cap" would be a NY yankees hat... glorious English language we have here. :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_CB

some .22 bb (or CB) cap pics:

http://content.answers.com/main/cont..._capsmall2.jpg
L to right .22 BB cap, .22 short, .22 long

http://cartridgecollectors.org/22box/034.jpg

Harley-Dog 08-26-2007 08:54 PM

I really appreciate everyone's input on this one. I have learned a lot. Thanx for all the info.

Harley-Dog


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