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-   -   Did the FBI steal the Gold? Anyone know these guys? (https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=296218)

Cal_Cobra 04-19-2022 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbnhood66 (Post 3385540)
I liked it better when they were able to start digging up the "road" area coming out of the swamp until they ran into the pottery and got shut down.

Darn that pottery, caused my favorite archeologist to exit the program :bling:

ManInTheWaLL 04-19-2022 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385665)
Some things are wrong with that quote :

1) "Says who ?" If you google that combination of words, you get the same exact quote, from various other papers. Sounds to me like someone says that someone else said something. Heaven-forbid telephone game enters in. Then someone else morphs it into "This was exactly said", and then other sources pick it up and "links lead to links".

For example, similar word combo's lead to prior news sources, a year or more earlier, that said that , supposedly, Enviroscan had said "7 to 9 tons". Now it's morphed to 9 tons. Eh ?

And even THAT was at the prodding of one of Dennis's hitmen :roll: Ie.: Another goofball who is in league with Dennis and the belief. The quote starts there, as to what he thinks the FBI guy said. People have a tendency to interpret everything in light of their "prior commitments".

2) Stop and think for a minute man-in-the-wall : Think about "7 to 9 tons". Dude : I own a street sweeper company. Our street sweepers (the full-size municipal rigs) weigh 8 tons. It would take a crane to lift them. But hold on, let me guess : 7 to 9 tons of gold was curried in a couple of wagons pulled by horses or mules or whatever, eh ?

And stop and multiply that through the current spot market of melt-gold-value. Isn't that something like the entire reserves of some nations ?

3) And since when can any electronic device, aimed in from the surface, without digging an item up, TELL YOU THE WEIGHT ?? Perhaps size (dimension). But not weight.

For example: A metal detector can beep and tell you a metal object is down there. But can it tell you the weight of the object ? No. Of course not. You have to put it on a scale to know that ! Can anyone here tell us of any equipment that can tell someone an approx. weight, from a distance, w/o ever touching or seeing the object ??


Aren't you smelling something fishy ? I think these lovely quotes are just skewed tid-bits, twisted out of context by Dennis-&-gang, and then he runs and tells every news agency that : "The FBI said such & such "

Iíve kind of observed that heís not very bright.

you think with his great ability to find big treasures, he would be out there chasing more millions instead of bullshitting on these message boards.

I guess if Jesus can walk on water, maybe this story is true also :laughing:

stetam 04-19-2022 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal_Cobra (Post 3385677)
Darn that pottery, caused my favorite archeologist to exit the program :bling:

:D

Pete e 04-19-2022 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385665)
Some things are wrong with that quote :

1) "Says who ?" If you google that combination of words, you get the same exact quote, from various other papers. Sounds to me like someone says that someone else said something. Heaven-forbid telephone game enters in. Then someone else morphs it into "This was exactly said", and then other sources pick it up and "links lead to links".

For example, similar word combo's lead to prior news sources, a year or more earlier, that said that , supposedly, Enviroscan had said "7 to 9 tons". Now it's morphed to 9 tons. Eh ?

And even THAT was at the prodding of one of Dennis's hitmen :roll: Ie.: Another goofball who is in league with Dennis and the belief. The quote starts there, as to what he thinks the FBI guy said. People have a tendency to interpret everything in light of their "prior commitments".

2) Stop and think for a minute man-in-the-wall : Think about "7 to 9 tons". Dude : I own a street sweeper company. Our street sweepers (the full-size municipal rigs) weigh 8 tons. It would take a crane to lift them. But hold on, let me guess : 7 to 9 tons of gold was curried in a couple of wagons pulled by horses or mules or whatever, eh ?

And stop and multiply that through the current spot market of melt-gold-value. Isn't that something like the entire reserves of some nations ?

3) And since when can any electronic device, aimed in from the surface, without digging an item up, TELL YOU THE WEIGHT ?? Perhaps size (dimension). But not weight.

For example: A metal detector can beep and tell you a metal object is down there. But can it tell you the weight of the object ? No. Of course not. You have to put it on a scale to know that ! Can anyone here tell us of any equipment that can tell someone an approx. weight, from a distance, w/o ever touching or seeing the object ??


Aren't you smelling something fishy ? I think these lovely quotes are just skewed tid-bits, twisted out of context by Dennis-&-gang, and then he runs and tells every news agency that : "The FBI said such & such "

I am not going to argue the detail but if the FBI went to all that trouble to comission a survey from Enviroscan, and then carry out an excavation, which was filmed, I don't think it unreasonable that they produce a full report and make all the data public...if they genuinely did not find anything, what's the issue?

From the little I have read of this case, I don't particularly believe anything Treasure related was found, but by being less than fully transparent, the FBI are only fueling the conspiracy theories....

Tom_in_CA 04-19-2022 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal_Cobra (Post 3385673)
Oh but your wood and iron spikes aren't old :detector:

Haha, well it seems to me that you and I have found "old wood" and "old spikes" on some past treks of ours. Right ? Who woulda thunk that we walked right past a fabulous treasure ! :shock: :laughing:

Pete e 04-19-2022 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbnhood66 (Post 3385540)
I still like to watch it. After them putting Cassons down this year, as large as they are, I expected a little more. I think they are not really going about it in the right way. At this point I would think they would circle the largest area with Cassons, fill them, and weld some sort of beams across them so they could really dig it out and find out what is down there. I liked it better when they were able to start digging up the "road" area coming out of the swamp until they ran into the pottery and got shut down. The archeology part of it was real cool. I don't know....I think something happened there, but it is really starting to drag out. I used to love watching Gary metal detect, and that is what really put me over to get my own detector and start learning the art of the craft. But some of it is getting real tedious. I like the history part of it, and now that science is really being applied I like to watch it more when that is applied. The blacksmith is a nice guy, but I still think a lot of it is conjecture. The geologist guy is probably my favorite now, Dr. Spooner I think.

I think the thing that strikes me is how the technology they deployed has promised so much, but has not really delivered.

A couple of seasons ago, they had that extensive seismic survey which allegedly saw possible tunnels and chambers, but nothing really came of it...I was willing to concede that the natural limestone is probably a maze of natural caverns and tunnels anyway..

In the last series they did those ground water tests that showed high levels of silver and detectable amounts of gold in water from certain bore holes but so far they have failed to find the source...so were the people doing the ground water analysis snake oil salesmen or is there another explanation for the results?

davidlhyde63366 04-19-2022 08:45 PM

government required to start releasing documents
 
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-war-gold-hunt

normx2 04-19-2022 08:55 PM

The FBI would never steal anything!!! Well, unless it was connected with politics

Tom_in_CA 04-19-2022 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385685)
..... but if the FBI went to all that trouble to comission a survey from Enviroscan, and then carry out an excavation, which was filmed, I don't think it unreasonable that they produce a full report and make all the data public...if they genuinely did not find anything, what's the issue? ....

Pete, welcome to the world of government bureaucracy. And it's not just things like this (supposed-treasure-related). It's Anything that involves paperwork from the govt.

For example: When the govt. goes out to bid on putting a new roof on a DMV building, or pave a parking lot, or buying coffee pots or a toilet seat : The RFP (Requests for Proposals) can be 100 pages long ! I know because I have sometimes bid on govt. jobs for my company. Very onerous. Eg.: Legalese, Insurance spec's, non-discrimination spec's, non-collusion spec's, product spec's, blah blah blah

And now you know why uncle Sam pays $1000 for a toilet seat that you can get at the hardware store for $39. Or to pave a parking lot costs $100K. But if a private office building paved the same size parking lot, it would cost $30k. And be done with nothing but a handshake.

So the onerous amount of hurdles and delays have NOTHING to do with "proof of a treasure". It's just the normal way Uncle Sam works. And no, I do not think this means they are "hiding something". To prove this, try this :

1. Go to ANY institution of your choosing.. Eg.: a bank, a business, a government agency, a military institution, your neighbor's house, a church, OR WHATEVER....

2. Tell them : " I suspect you of foul play, corruption, or a crime."

3. Then tell them : " Therefore I need you to open up your records, un-redacted employee/personnel files, bank records, all your picture SD card files, let me snoop through your file cabinets, etc...."

4. What do you think your neighbor, the business, the bank, the govt office, etc..... is going to say to your demand ? They're gonna tell you to "bug off ". Right ? Try this at Area 51, or any military base and see what happens.

5. Ok then, by your standards then, they HAVE to be guilty of whatever your accusation is. Because.... gee.... otherwise they would give you carte-blanche to everything you demand. Ie.: Therefore they MUST be hiding something. Eh ?


6. Can I try this out on you and your household (or business or place of employment) ? Can I give you a list of things from your desk and computer and file cabinets that I want ?

7. And if I did this at your house, wouldn't you & your wife or your employer tell me to bug-off ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385685)
....but by being less than fully transparent, the FBI are only fueling the conspiracy theories....

Pete, I guarantee you that if the govt. did EVERYTHING that Dennis is demanding, and it showed "no treasure" that it would not stop Dennis from screaming "Treasure". Because it's like asking a bank robber "Did you rob a bank ?" OF COURSE the bank-robber is going to say "no". Therefore we can't trust anything the govt. hands over to Dennis.

Because here's what Dennis will do next : He'd claim it was doctored, whitewashed, scrubbed, etc..... In fact, he's already resorting to this fall-back position. I predicted it ahead of time on David's thread (you can see from the time-line). And it's already coming true.

Pete e 04-19-2022 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385708)
Pete, welcome to the world of government bureaucracy. And it's not just things like this (supposed-treasure-related). It's Anything that involves paperwork from the govt.

For example: When the govt. goes out to bid on putting a new roof on a DMV building, or pave a parking lot, or buying coffee pots or a toilet seat : The RFP (Requests for Proposals) can be 100 pages long ! I know because I have sometimes bid on govt. jobs for my company. Very onerous. Eg.: Legalese, Insurance spec's, non-discrimination spec's, non-collusion spec's, product spec's, blah blah blah

And now you know why uncle Sam pays $1000 for a toilet seat that you can get at the hardware store for $39. Or to pave a parking lot costs $100K. But if a private office building paved the same size parking lot, it would cost $30k. And be done with nothing but a handshake.

So the onerous amount of hurdles and delays have NOTHING to do with "proof of a treasure". It's just the normal way Uncle Sam works. And no, I do not think this means they are "hiding something". To prove this, try this :

1. Go to ANY institution of your choosing.. Eg.: a bank, a business, a government agency, a military institution, your neighbor's house, a church, OR WHATEVER....

2. Tell them : " I suspect you of foul play, corruption, or a crime."

3. Then tell them : " Therefore I need you to open up your records, un-redacted employee/personnel files, bank records, all your picture SD card files, let me snoop through your file cabinets, etc...."

4. What do you think your neighbor, the business, the bank, the govt office, etc..... is going to say to your demand ? They're gonna tell you to "bug off ". Right ? Try this at Area 51, or any military base and see what happens.

5. Ok then, by your standards then, they HAVE to be guilty of whatever your accusation is. Because.... gee.... otherwise they would give you carte-blanche to everything you demand. Ie.: Therefore they MUST be hiding something. Eh ?


6. Can I try this out on you and your household (or business or place of employment) ? Can I give you a list of things from your desk and computer and file cabinets that I want ?

7. And if I did this at your house, wouldn't you & your wife or your employer tell me to bug-off ?

I don't see those situations as comparable...in this case, Denis has persuaded the FBI to commission a survey by an independent contractor that seems to have released info into the public domain that they detected "something" and the results were compelling enough for the FBI to then carry out quite an extensive dig...

Once the dig was complete, the FBI says nothing to see here and will not release any further info, even when compelled under the Freedom of Information laws...

Looking at the court ruling on the matter, it seems the judge feels broadly the same way as me, and has ordered the various files released in a timely manner.

Will this satisfy Denis? Probably not, but it probably will satisfy more neutral observers like ourselves...At the very least, it should hold the FBI accountable for why they spent a substantial sum of tax payers money on the whole project, a project which yielded nothing..

Tom_in_CA 04-19-2022 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385716)
.... they detected "something" and the results were compelling enough for the FBI to then carry out quite an extensive dig......


That's not the way I understand what "compelled" them to go wave their Enviroscan or dig or whatever. The ONLY reason any govt. people were there, is NOT because they "detected something". It's because Dennis spent years, banging on their doors. Insisting that something was on their govt. land. A fabulous treasure. Finally they agree to go look. And presto, the conspiracy theory is born.

So don't you see that the "smoke" here is not some supposed evidence of Enviroscan or "9 tons", etc.... The smoke is entirely of Dennis' own making.

Let me give you an example : If I went to various law enforcement agencies near me and say : "I know where 10 murder victim bodies are buried in the desert ". And rattled their cages long enough, I bet I can get them to dig in the spot I show them.

And if they say they didn't find bodies, then I can take and twist things that I think one of their crew said, and announce a conspiracy.

If I try hard enough, I can see and smell "fishy things" as proof. Like : One of the govt. people had "squinty eyes". They set up suspicious cameras. They drove big trucks (big enough to cart off 10 bodies without anyone seeing). They don't tell me what their grade school teacher's name was at my demand, etc....

metaladdict 04-19-2022 10:05 PM

Uh oh, let's not get govt, politics into this or I will have to shut this thread down!:police::police:

Tom_in_CA 04-19-2022 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385716)
.....

Pete, do your research on this guy . About another treasure prior to this Dents Run gig. I talk about it in post #7. Find the details about that.

At what point doesn't Dennis' credibility suffer ??

I can sit here and play wack-a-mole trying to give "more plausible explanations" all-day-long about the Enviroscan supposed quote. Who said it. If that's what they said, etc.... And then what do I have to do ? Serve Enviroscan with court-ordered papers to open up their data, and re-interview supposed person who said supposed something (which I'm sure no one was standing around recording that day's conversation).

So let's just cut to the chase, instead of playing wack-a-mole : Let's see one red cent. And that will put an end to it.

To say that "we'll never see a red cent because the govt. stole and hid the $$", is like me saying : Pete is a murderer. And I can conjure up all sorts of proofs. Ie.: Prove where you were 6 months ago, on 10/19/21. Explain the scratch on your left front bumper. Your neighbors say you've been acting suspiciously lately. A car was seen driving past your house at 2am last week, acting strangely. Open up your bank account records, your phone SD card, your file cabinets, etc....

If you fail to provide all these proofs, then this means you are a murderer. And if you deny it and say "No I'm not", then that's ALL THE MORE PROOF ! (since, of course, murderers never admit to being murderers).

So let's see a single penny. The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. The burden of proof is on the claimants.

chillforlife 04-20-2022 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL (Post 3385680)
I guess if Jesus can walk on water, maybe this story is true also :laughing

Kinda reminds me of religion.

:

Wow, only 16 posts and you've managed to alienate the majority of posters here. Keep up the good work, but maybe you should keep your anti-religion bias to yourself. Along with politics.

Beachhunt1 04-20-2022 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385702)

That is great info! 17 vids down to 3 or 5? Lots of doccuments down to a handful.........YA SOMTHING HAPPENED THERE!

Pete e 04-20-2022 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385740)
Pete, do your research on this guy . About another treasure prior to this Dents Run gig. I talk about it in post #7. Find the details about that.

At what point doesn't Dennis' credibility suffer ??

I can sit here and play wack-a-mole trying to give "more plausible explanations" all-day-long about the Enviroscan supposed quote. Who said it. If that's what they said, etc.... And then what do I have to do ? Serve Enviroscan with court-ordered papers to open up their data, and re-interview supposed person who said supposed something (which I'm sure no one was standing around recording that day's conversation).

So let's just cut to the chase, instead of playing wack-a-mole : Let's see one red cent. And that will put an end to it.

To say that "we'll never see a red cent because the govt. stole and hid the $$", is like me saying : Pete is a murderer. And I can conjure up all sorts of proofs. Ie.: Prove where you were 6 months ago, on 10/19/21. Explain the scratch on your left front bumper. Your neighbors say you've been acting suspiciously lately. A car was seen driving past your house at 2am last week, acting strangely. Open up your bank account records, your phone SD card, your file cabinets, etc....

If you fail to provide all these proofs, then this means you are a murderer. And if you deny it and say "No I'm not", then that's ALL THE MORE PROOF ! (since, of course, murderers never admit to being murderers).

So let's see a single penny. The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. The burden of proof is on the claimants.

Tom,

You are arguing whether there is a treasure there or not, or whether Denis is credible, I am not..

My take, the same as the Judge, is that the FBI needs to be transparent with the results of their investigation and release the files concerned as required under the freedom of information laws...Nothing more and nothing less...

Do I think there was gold buried down there? 99.999% No...

I am not a geologist nor a survey expert, but my very uneducated guess would be something natural like iron stone or some super concentrated deposits of black sand....

ManInTheWaLL 04-20-2022 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillforlife (Post 3385783)
Wow, only 16 posts and you've managed to alienate the majority of posters here. Keep up the good work, but maybe you should keep your anti-religion bias to yourself. Along with politics.

I posted a very popular article, and I am being accused of causing the political division in the USA. (WINK). Go along to get along, shut my brain off and just follow?

As for religion & politics, is that not permitted on the board?

Cfmct 04-20-2022 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL (Post 3385813)
I posted a very popular article, and I am being accused of causing the political division in the USA. (WINK). Go along to get along, shut my brain off and just follow?

As for religion & politics, is that not permitted on the board?


No...

2. No Politics, Religion, Sex, or Drugs
- Discussions of politics and religion inevitably lead to arguments, so they are best left to other political and religious forums on the web.
No racial, ethnic, gender, discriminatory, or religiously derogatory comments, not even in jest, are allowed.
- Sexual innuendos, advances, or "hitting" on another member via posts or PM's will NOT be tolerated.
- No posting pictures of illegal/prescription drugs and/or paraphernalia..... or talking about/ insinuating drug use.

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachhunt1 (Post 3385787)
That is great info! 17 vids down to 3 or 5? Lots of doccuments down to a handful.........YA SOMTHING HAPPENED THERE!

Call me optimistic, but I'll bet there's a perfectly benign explanation, that has NOTHING to do with bolstering a "fabulous stolen treasure" explanation.

Here's what's going on : Dennis will pester every agency from here to China, for a million things (that he claims people said, blah blah). Until FINALLY he finds something they lost, or they refuse, or they don't care, etc... Eg.: The underwear size of one of the truck drivers, the middle initial on the janitor who was on duty at state capital that night, etc..... And then : PRESTO : They *MUST* be hiding something sinister ! So that we can automatically assume : A fabulous treasure ! :roll:

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385795)
....You are arguing whether there is a treasure there or not, or whether Denis is credible, I am not......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385795)
...Nothing more and nothing less.......

Ah, so your only interest in this story is judicial in nature . Nothing treasure related. Eh ? Well seeing as how this is a metal detecting (treasure) forum, it stood to reason that your take-on-the-issue was the treasure part of the story. Not the judicial legalese part of the story.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385795)
.... 99.999% No.......

Ah, see there ? You're holding out .001% hope/belief . That there's a treasure. So there's a tiny smidgeon of your concern that is treasure related :laughing:

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL (Post 3385813)
I posted a very popular article, and I am being accused of causing the political division in the USA. (WINK). ...

No, it wasn't the posting of an article, that riled a fellow member. The Dennis / D.R. soap opera gets discussed here at times. Thus no, that was not the issue. The issue was to compare the failure of logical scrutiny for this particular treasure story, to be on-par with people's religious beliefs.

As if to imply : Religious folk are : Just as much illogical as this Dennis fellow's methods/thinking. And that riled a few folk.

By all means: Post md'ing/treasure related stuff all day long !

SeabeeRon 04-20-2022 10:30 AM

IMHO Dent's Run is just Oak Island 2.0 and all this chatter is just PR to build a base for a new TV show.

ManInTheWaLL 04-20-2022 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385834)
No, it wasn't the posting of an article, that riled a fellow member. The Dennis / D.R. soap opera gets discussed here at times. Thus no, that was not the issue. The issue was to compare the failure of logical scrutiny for this particular treasure story, to be on-par with people's religious beliefs.

As if to imply : Religious folk are : Just as much illogical as this Dennis fellow's methods/thinking. And that riled a few folk.

By all means: Post md'ing/treasure related stuff all day long !


Well, the guy knows how to stir stuff up. That site is all over the news today. Friend of mine just called saying... "The FBI said their contractors dug up 8 tons of gold"

Kind of reminds me of this story from 2003

TORONTO, Ontario (CNN) -- Clonaid, the company that has claimed to have cloned two baby girls, announced Thursday that a third cloned baby, a boy, was born Wednesday to a Japanese couple.

Pete e 04-20-2022 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385832)

Ah, see there ? You're holding out .001% hope/belief . That there's a treasure. So there's a tiny smidgeon of your concern that is treasure related :laughing:

BBC News is reporting a meteorite came down in four pieces "somewhere" in the the area I will be detecting at the weekend...I think I have more chance of finding one of those pieces than Denis has of finding gold! lol

And my main interests in this Treasure story is simply the search, particularly the methods used to survey and why supposedly scientific methods turn out to be inaccurate.....

So I will wait to see what I can learn when the files are released....

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 11:05 AM

information to be released finaly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachhunt1 (Post 3385787)
That is great info! 17 vids down to 3 or 5? Lots of doccuments down to a handful.........YA SOMTHING HAPPENED THERE!

number of new news articles on it so be interesting to see just what is in those records / https://www.sharonherald.com/ap/judg...15d802b7a.html

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL (Post 3385838)
... Friend of mine just called saying... "The FBI said their contractors dug up 8 tons of gold".....

I'm not even going to look into this. I can already assume that any such past tense "found" and "dug" (past-tense-words) are always used by these type folk to mean "accused of" or "on the verge of" "or then stolen", etc....

And they always use the past-tense word, as if something was already found , as in, can be shown.

They have a twisted sense of words. That it's "found" if you narrow it down to a certain cave or swamp or mountain. And now it's just a matter of sorting out government red tape, digging 100 ft. deep, chasing down someone who "stole" it, etc...., then by golly, it was "found" (past tense).

What a joke :(

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385849)
.....

So I will wait to see what I can learn when the files are released....

No need to wait. I can save you some time. You will "learn" that you will not see one-red-cent of any treasure.

And sure, you'll hear all the fall-back continuing conspiracies push-back floated, to explain the lack-of-any-treasure. :roll: But at no time will you see one red cent.

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385850)
.... so be interesting to see just what is in those records ....

No matter what it is, I can guarantee you that Dennis will spin it in such a way that it points to "Fabulous treasure".

If it doesn't say that, he will scream: "White-washed" "redacted" and "scrubbed".

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385916)
No matter what it is, I can guarantee you that Dennis will spin it in such a way that it points to "Fabulous treasure".

If it doesn't say that, he will scream: "White-washed" "redacted" and "scrubbed".

See no reason they should have stalled this long to release the documents if there was nothing there. At least we will get a peak of what they do release , curious minds want to know. :laughing:

KOB 04-20-2022 04:26 PM

Cmon stop ! I know today is 4:20 , but are you guys all stoned ? Thanks for killing my buzz and shattering my treasure dreams !

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385928)
See no reason they should have stalled this long to release the documents if there was nothing there. ....

I see no reason to believe Dave isn't a murderer, if he doesn't open up his PC, bank records, file cabinets, SD camera card, diary, etc.... to me.

After all, if Dave isn't a murderer, what's he hiding, and what's he stalling for ? :?:

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOB (Post 3385931)
Cmon stop ! I know today is 4:20 , but are you guys all stoned ? Thanks for killing my buzz and shattering my treasure dreams !

It's only because we love you KOB ! After all, that's what friends are for. :cool3:

ManInTheWaLL 04-20-2022 04:59 PM

Next you guys are going to tell me Santa isn't real.

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385935)
I see no reason to believe Dave isn't a murderer, if he doesn't open up his PC, bank records, file cabinets, SD camera card, diary, etc.... to me.

After all, if Dave isn't a murderer, what's he hiding, and what's he stalling for ? :?:

So are you saying that the Government isn't accountable to the public that it serves ? , and are you saying you totally trust the government to do the right thing . How many times has the American government not been honest with the public in the name of national interest. The government has built up many secret funds for things over the years that never show up in the official budget or books.

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 06:38 PM

new video report on the subject
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S6Ao9jcv2Y

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 06:41 PM

Dave, I know you're just trying to get-my-goat (right ?). We've been over this before, on your other fun thread. But again :

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385964)
So are you saying that the Government isn't accountable to the public that it serves ? .....

Sure. And their level of accountability, and their apathy and speed of response, is the same HERE as it is for any other F.O.I.A. issue. This current issued being discussed is no different than any other reaction to screaming citizens, in these situations. And does NOT necessarily mean : "Hanky panky".

For example : In my business (street sweepers), I have sometimes suspected that a competitor is not playing fair with the correct wages paid to their drivers, on public works projects. And, in theory, I can request certified payrolls (that theoretically prove the proper payment of wages). But to get that info (especially prior to the digital age) is like pulling teeth at times. Delays, apathy, dead-ends, etc... And finally when I get something, it's redacted info, and stuff that, in all honesty, my competitor can be making up.

I have experienced government red tape. And you can hardly blame the govt. for not doing things "with a handshake" (the way a private business would do things). Because gauranteed : the minute any dollars change hands (the govt. buys something for city hall or public works) then everyone comes screaming "unfair" or "corruption". Hence every cotton picking purchase has a 100 page contract.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385964)
...., and are you saying you totally trust the government to do the right thing .....


David, this may come as a surprise to you, but people in govt. are ..... drum-roll ... human. Just like you and me. And to the same degree that YOU AND I are capable of corruption, stealing, murder, etc.... , so too are govt. employees. I docent at a city museum, so I rub shoulders with city staff (aka govt. workers). And believe it or not, they're just normal people. Capable of good or bad, JUST like anyone else.

The way you phrase your question is the logical fallacy known as "begging the question". It presumes its own point of view (that "we can not trust the govt." ). As if that's just a default "given starting premise". As if: The moment someone takes a job at any govt. position (military, LEO, etc...), then presto: They are now evil and corrupt. Says who ?

And if you want to justify this as some sort of default premise, by pointing out past instances of corruption by govt. officials, then : Heck, I can show you examples of murderers and thieves who do NOT work for the govt. Can I therefore then conclude that : Therefore, all civilian non-govt.-workers are thieves and murderers ? Of course not.

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 06:50 PM

Fun to get Tom's goat
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385971)
Dave, I know you're just trying to get-my-goat (right ?). We've been over this before, on your other fun thread. But again :



Sure. And their level of accountability, and their apathy and speed of response, is the same HERE as it is for any other F.O.I.A. issue. This current issued being discussed is no different than any other reaction to screaming citizens, in these situations. And does NOT necessarily mean : "Hanky panky".

For example : In my business (street sweepers), I have sometimes suspected that a competitor is playing fair with the correct wages paid to their drivers, on public works projects. And, in theory, I can request certified payrolls (that theoretically prove the proper payment of wages). But to get that info (especially prior to the digital age) is like pulling teeth at times. Delays, apathy, dead-ends, etc... And finally when I get something, it's redacted info, and stuff that, in all honesty, my competitor can be making up.

I have experienced government red tape. And you can hardly blame the govt. for not doing things "with a handshake" (the way a private business would do things). Because gauranteed : the minute any dollars change hands (the govt. buys something for city hall or public works) then everyone comes screaming "unfair" or "corruption". Hence every cotton picking purchase has a 100 page contract.


David, this may come as a surprise to you, but people in govt. are ..... drum-roll ... human. Just like you and me. And to the same degree that YOU AND I are capable of corruption, stealing, murder, etc.... , so too are govt. employees. I docent at a city museum, so I rub shoulders with city staff (aka govt. workers). And believe it or not, they're just normal people. Capable of good or bad, JUST like anyone else.

The way you phrase your question is the logical fallacy known as "begging the question". It presumes that "we can not trust the govt." . As if that's just a default "given starting premise". As if: The moment someone takes a job at any govt. position (military, LEO, etc...), then presto: They are now evil and corrupt.

Says who ? Heck, I can show you examples of murderers and thieves who do NOT work for the govt. Can I then conclude that : Therefore, all civilian non-govt.-workers are thieves and murderers ? Of course not.

YOU might take a poll on here and see just how many totally trust the FBI and CIA , not saying all Government is corrupt but some seem to play by their own rules in the name of national security , the end justifies the means, and the needs of the individual may be out weighed by the needs of the nation. See no reason the public shouldn't be allowed to see those sealed records.

ManInTheWaLL 04-20-2022 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385971)
Dave, I know you're just trying to get-my-goat (right ?). We've been over this before, on your other fun thread. But again :



Sure. And their level of accountability, and their apathy and speed of response, is the same HERE as it is for any other F.O.I.A. issue. This current issued being discussed is no different than any other reaction to screaming citizens, in these situations. And does NOT necessarily mean : "Hanky panky".

For example : In my business (street sweepers), I have sometimes suspected that a competitor is not playing fair with the correct wages paid to their drivers, on public works projects. And, in theory, I can request certified payrolls (that theoretically prove the proper payment of wages). But to get that info (especially prior to the digital age) is like pulling teeth at times. Delays, apathy, dead-ends, etc... And finally when I get something, it's redacted info, and stuff that, in all honesty, my competitor can be making up.

I have experienced government red tape. And you can hardly blame the govt. for not doing things "with a handshake" (the way a private business would do things). Because gauranteed : the minute any dollars change hands (the govt. buys something for city hall or public works) then everyone comes screaming "unfair" or "corruption". Hence every cotton picking purchase has a 100 page contract.




David, this may come as a surprise to you, but people in govt. are ..... drum-roll ... human. Just like you and me. And to the same degree that YOU AND I are capable of corruption, stealing, murder, etc.... , so too are govt. employees. I docent at a city museum, so I rub shoulders with city staff (aka govt. workers). And believe it or not, they're just normal people. Capable of good or bad, JUST like anyone else.

The way you phrase your question is the logical fallacy known as "begging the question". It presumes its own point of view (that "we can not trust the govt." ). As if that's just a default "given starting premise". As if: The moment someone takes a job at any govt. position (military, LEO, etc...), then presto: They are now evil and corrupt. Says who ?

And if you want to justify this as some sort of default premise, by pointing out past instances of corruption by govt. officials, then : Heck, I can show you examples of murderers and thieves who do NOT work for the govt. Can I therefore then conclude that : Therefore, all civilian non-govt.-workers are thieves and murderers ? Of course not.

I would say certain professions attract certain personalities. Ask any cop, and he'll tell you, a lot of cops become cops for the power trip. It's not uncommon for a person to quit a job where he was making 30% to become a cop.

Same thing with politicians, and other professions. Some attract a much more corrupt/risk taking group.

As for a group of FBI agents to take 500 million in Gold, totally impossible. CIA... umm different story possibly.

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 06:57 PM

new story on Oak Island
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjHY5_9C7o4

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385970)

David, do you really think that anything in this video (which is all old news) bears any hope of any fabulous treasure being proven ? Ie.: a Single Cent of any treasure surfacing ?

I can guarantee you that no proof of treasure will arise out of Dennis' bruhaha. He will only scream "redactions" and "whitewash" and "deleted files", etc.... Which he has already started doing. Which is only an 'argument-from-silence', and is not proof.

But if you believe this video info shows any hope of a fabulous treasure being proven, then how about a friendly wager :

I will send you a crisp $100 bill, if any proof of stolen treasure arises out of this. And if no proof of treasure shows up, then you send me a crisp $100 bill. Deal ? :cool3:


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