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-   Caches, Old Bottles, and other Treasures (https://metaldetectingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Did the FBI steal the Gold? Anyone know these guys? (https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=296218)

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385977)

OOOhhhh PPUUULLLEEEAAASSEEE stop torturing us !! :sissyfight:

KingTotsalot 04-20-2022 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385971)
Dave, I know you're just trying to get-my-goat (right ?). We've been over this before, on your other fun thread. But again :



Sure. And their level of accountability, and their apathy and speed of response, is the same HERE as it is for any other F.O.I.A. issue. This current issued being discussed is no different than any other reaction to screaming citizens, in these situations. And does NOT necessarily mean : "Hanky panky".

For example : In my business (street sweepers), I have sometimes suspected that a competitor is not playing fair with the correct wages paid to their drivers, on public works projects. And, in theory, I can request certified payrolls (that theoretically prove the proper payment of wages). But to get that info (especially prior to the digital age) is like pulling teeth at times. Delays, apathy, dead-ends, etc... And finally when I get something, it's redacted info, and stuff that, in all honesty, my competitor can be making up.

I have experienced government red tape. And you can hardly blame the govt. for not doing things "with a handshake" (the way a private business would do things). Because gauranteed : the minute any dollars change hands (the govt. buys something for city hall or public works) then everyone comes screaming "unfair" or "corruption". Hence every cotton picking purchase has a 100 page contract.




David, this may come as a surprise to you, but people in govt. are ..... drum-roll ... human. Just like you and me. And to the same degree that YOU AND I are capable of corruption, stealing, murder, etc.... , so too are govt. employees. I docent at a city museum, so I rub shoulders with city staff (aka govt. workers). And believe it or not, they're just normal people. Capable of good or bad, JUST like anyone else.

The way you phrase your question is the logical fallacy known as "begging the question". It presumes its own point of view (that "we can not trust the govt." ). As if that's just a default "given starting premise". As if: The moment someone takes a job at any govt. position (military, LEO, etc...), then presto: They are now evil and corrupt. Says who ?

And if you want to justify this as some sort of default premise, by pointing out past instances of corruption by govt. officials, then : Heck, I can show you examples of murderers and thieves who do NOT work for the govt. Can I therefore then conclude that : Therefore, all civilian non-govt.-workers are thieves and murderers ? Of course not.

KT totally agrees with you, Tom! His Majesty worked for state government and never met anyone that was not a regular person, even some of our local politicians! :lol::lol: Sometimes I came across someone who thought they were someone, but they were just delusional. :laughing: Imho. And since the majority of folks are “normal” people, if anyone ever truly came across any real “treasure”, they would have blabbed it to everyone! But if KT ever comes across anything that would be considered treasure, unless it is silver He finds during CRHing, He will tell no one about it, just hide it in the Castle Dungeon and play with it every day! :laughing::laughing:

No sane person would spend their life chasing rumors. One thing KT did learn over that 40 years was that Grandpa or Great grandpa never lied, but he sure told some wild stories to the kids in the family!

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385974)
YOU might take a poll on here and see just how many totally trust the FBI and CIA ,.....

Sure, that poll you could take represents human nature. Everyone distrusts authority over them.

For example, I run a company, and as such, I have employees. And the griping is CONSTANT. All my guys think I'm rich, or somehow not being fair to them. Or that I don't run the company in the best way (ie.: They would do things differently).

My wife was on the board for the HOA I lived in, and she saw this human instinct "poll" that you refer to : Everyone willing to b*tch and say how $$ is wasted, or something was done in-secret, blah blah blah. As if my wife is a member of a secret cabal "looking to take over the world" and stuffing cash into her pockets on the side, blah blah blah. Mind you, none of the gripers or conspiracy buffs ever step up to the plate to volunteer for the board themselves :roll:

So I would dismiss your poll.

Dude, I worked with a prison visitation ministry for years. Volunteering to come 1x per month and visit inmates on the inside (play checkers, talk about sports, etc...). And I got to know a lot of the "culture" of life behind bars at Soledad prison.

So let me ask you : What percentage of persons behind bars, do you think had any sort of govt. jobs prior to arriving there ? On your view, if you think that govt. workers *ARE BY DEFINITION* corrupt and evil (according to your "poll"), then .... logically..... most people behind bars should hail from government jobs. Right ? But no, that's not the case. I'm sure there's some ex-cops and ex-city-counsel men and ex-military there, sure.

But the vast vast majority of them are just a random sampling of the population . Probably less govt. workers (since most of these are persons who never aspired to work a regular job in the first place).

Again I tell you: Persons who take govt. and LEO and military jobs are normal humans. Just like you and I. Ok ?

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385978)
David, do you really think that anything in this video (which is all old news) bears any hope of any fabulous treasure being proven ? Ie.: a Single Cent of any treasure surfacing ?

I can guarantee you that no proof of treasure will arise out of Dennis' bruhaha. He will only scream "redactions" and "whitewash" and "deleted files", etc.... Which he has already started doing. Which is only an 'argument-from-silence', and is not proof.

But if you believe this video info shows any hope of a fabulous treasure being proven, then how about a friendly wager :

I will send you a crisp $100 bill, if any proof of stolen treasure arises out of this. And if no proof of treasure shows up, then you send me a crisp $100 bill. Deal ? :cool3:

but who decides it is proof or not you already decided it will not be proof and you are right no mater what the reports say, so you would just decide i owe you money and you are right . I could just as easy say the reports leave doubt and you owe me money .

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL (Post 3385975)
.... Ask any cop, and he'll tell you, a lot of cops become cops for the power trip. .....

Ok, and what's wrong with that ? Ie.: What's your point in that ? They darned well BETTER assume power & authority with that thankless job, or they'll never get their job done.

So too do self-employed business owners enjoy the freedom, power, authority, that it brings. I can come & go on md'ing treks, and merely put employees out on jobs. I can come and go as I please, with no one telling me when to punch a time-clock.

Thus : What is new about what you are saying ? Cops (and govt. workers) are NOT "automatically evil", simply because of their title or position. They are human just like anyone else. Prone to good or bad, just like anyone else.

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingTotsalot (Post 3385980)
KT totally agrees with you, Tom! His Majesty worked for state government ....

Ok, then following with the logic-train going on here by some: Then can we assume you have hidden wealth, that you stole from unsuspecting civilians. Right ? AFTER ALL you worked for the government. And after all, that's what all government workers do.

The polls say it, so 'fess up !

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385981)
Sure, that poll you could take represents human nature. Everyone distrusts authority over them.

For example, I run a company, and as such, I have employees. And the griping is CONSTANT. All my guys think I'm rich, or somehow not being fair to them. Or that I don't run the company in the best way (ie.: They would do things differently).

My wife was on the board for the HOA I lived in, and she saw this human instinct "poll" that you refer to : Everyone willing to b*tch and say how $$ is wasted, or something was done in-secret, blah blah blah. As if my wife is a member of a secret cabal "looking to take over the world" and stuffing cash into her pockets on the side, blah blah blah. Mind you, none of the gripers or conspiracy buffs ever step up to the plate to volunteer for the board themselves :roll:

So I would dismiss your poll.

Dude, I worked with a prison visitation ministry for years. Volunteering to come 1x per month and visit inmates on the inside (play checkers, talk about sports, etc...). And I got to know a lot of the "culture" of life behind bars at Soledad prison.

So let me ask you : What percentage of persons behind bars, do you think had any sort of govt. jobs prior to arriving there ? On your view, if you think that govt. workers *ARE BY DEFINITION* corrupt and evil (according to your "poll"), then .... logically..... most people behind bars should hail from government jobs. Right ? But no, that's not the case. I'm sure there's some ex-cops and ex-city-counsel men and ex-military there, sure.

But the vast vast majority of them are just a random sampling of the population . Probably less govt. workers (since most of these are persons who never aspired to work a regular job in the first place).

Again I tell you: Persons who take govt. and LEO and military jobs are normal humans. Just like you and I. Ok ?

I think i take offence to that, i never considered myself normal :laughing:

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385984)
but who decides it is proof or not ....

Glad you asked ! Proof of a fabulous treasure is (drum roll) A FABULOUS TREASURE !

Show us one red cent, and presto : Proof. Ok ? What is not logical about this ?

If I tell you there's leprechauns under my bed, then the proof would NOT be for me to claim they're invisible , or run -&-hide each time you look . (but rest-assured, they are there). That's not proof. Proof would be for me to show you a leprechaun !

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385989)
Glad you asked ! Proof of a fabulous treasure is (drum roll) A FABULOUS TREASURE !

Show us one red cent, and presto : Proof. Ok ? What is not logical about this ?

If I tell you there's leprechauns under my bed, then the proof would NOT be for me to claim they're invisible , or run -&-hide each time you look . (but rest-assured, they are there). That's not proof. Proof would be for me to show you a leprechaun !

The gold if found will never be seen again, no doubt , but the proof may be that the FBI did something under handed and tried cover it up.

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 08:03 PM

Is Tom the Grinch
 
Some could say Tom-in-CA is the Grinch who stole treasure legends and dreams :laughing: Worthy of a funny photo edit GKL , hint , hint :laughing:

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385993)
The gold if found will never be seen again, no doubt , but the proof may be that the FBI did something under handed and tried cover it up.

Sure. Rest assured a "fabulous treasure !" Rest assured it's there. It's just that it's stolen. Just like the leprechauns under my bed : Rest assured they are there. They just run and hide when you try to look. ;)

And the proof is rock-solid : It's a "given" that FBI guys are, of course "under-handed". So we can assume they steal treasures left & right. Hence THAT is our proof of a fabulous treasure.

Can I likewise ascribe the lack of leprechaun evidence to : Evil corrupt FBI guys that hide the leprechauns before you can see them ? :?:

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3386014)
.... Worthy of a funny photo edit GKL , hint , hint :laughing:

No ! Don't encourage him ! My museum garage cabinet display sides are running out of room for all these cartoons ! :roll:

davidlhyde63366 04-20-2022 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3386039)
No ! Don't encourage him ! My museum garage cabinet display sides are running out of room for all these cartoons ! :roll:

Maybe Gary will do one on that to (Just like the leprechauns under my bed ) good thing he is not checking tonight . :laughing:

GKL 04-20-2022 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3386014)
Some could say Tom-in-CA is the Grinch who stole treasure legends and dreams :laughing: Worthy of a funny photo edit GKL , hint , hint :laughing:

:laughing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3386065)
Maybe Gary will do one on that to (Just like the leprechauns under my bed ) good thing he is not checking tonight . :laughing:

.....well, this one sorta fits close to that description :laughing:

https://metaldetectingforum.com/show...47#post3381747

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3386039)
No ! Don't encourage him ! My museum garage cabinet display sides are running out of room for all these cartoons ! :roll:

:laughing: .......:hmmm: a new idea for a funny edit ? :lol:

......just maybe it's time to get some additional cabinets Tom ? :laughing:

KingTotsalot 04-20-2022 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385986)
Ok, then following with the logic-train going on here by some: Then can we assume you have hidden wealth, that you stole from unsuspecting civilians. Right ? AFTER ALL you worked for the government. And after all, that's what all government workers do.

The polls say it, so 'fess up !

Like KT told you, His Majesty will never “fess up”! Just visit His Royal Man Cave in the Dungeon, lock the door, and play with the “Treasure” therein!
:heartylaugh::heartylaugh::heartylaugh::heartylaug h::heartylaugh:

KOB 04-21-2022 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingTotsalot (Post 3386110)
Like KT told you, His Majesty will never “fess up”! Just visit His Royal Man Cave in the Dungeon, lock the door, and play with the “Treasure” therein!
:heartylaugh::heartylaugh::heartylaugh::heartylaug h::heartylaugh:

Hey KT !!! Haven't been to the family section in a long time. You still doing alot of the coin roll hunting ? Any luck ?

davidlhyde63366 04-21-2022 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKL (Post 3386089)
:laughing:



.....well, this one sorta fits close to that description :laughing:

https://metaldetectingforum.com/show...47#post3381747



:laughing: .......:hmmm: a new idea for a funny edit ? :lol:

......just maybe it's time to get some additional cabinets Tom ? :laughing:

Tom is going to have to devote a whole wall to your funny photo/ edits :laughing::laughing:

ManInTheWaLL 04-21-2022 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385981)
Sure, that poll you could take represents human nature. Everyone distrusts authority over them.

For example, I run a company, and as such, I have employees. And the griping is CONSTANT. All my guys think I'm rich, or somehow not being fair to them. Or that I don't run the company in the best way (ie.: They would do things differently).

My wife was on the board for the HOA I lived in, and she saw this human instinct "poll" that you refer to : Everyone willing to b*tch and say how $$ is wasted, or something was done in-secret, blah blah blah. As if my wife is a member of a secret cabal "looking to take over the world" and stuffing cash into her pockets on the side, blah blah blah. Mind you, none of the gripers or conspiracy buffs ever step up to the plate to volunteer for the board themselves :roll:

So I would dismiss your poll.

Dude, I worked with a prison visitation ministry for years. Volunteering to come 1x per month and visit inmates on the inside (play checkers, talk about sports, etc...). And I got to know a lot of the "culture" of life behind bars at Soledad prison.

So let me ask you : What percentage of persons behind bars, do you think had any sort of govt. jobs prior to arriving there ? On your view, if you think that govt. workers *ARE BY DEFINITION* corrupt and evil (according to your "poll"), then .... logically..... most people behind bars should hail from government jobs. Right ? But no, that's not the case. I'm sure there's some ex-cops and ex-city-counsel men and ex-military there, sure.

But the vast vast majority of them are just a random sampling of the population . Probably less govt. workers (since most of these are persons who never aspired to work a regular job in the first place).

Again I tell you: Persons who take govt. and LEO and military jobs are normal humans. Just like you and I. Ok ?

I would not say LEO are normal people. It attracts a certain group.

Only the dumb criminals get caught.

I think it would be fair to say, politicians tend to have above average IQ's, and with that, comes a greater ability to manipulate, deceive, and take advantage of your surroundings. It's human nature.

HiDesertHunter 04-21-2022 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOB (Post 3385496)
Can't you guys let me be 8 years old again ? I want to believe in treasure stories like these.

LOL ! Me too!

With regard to Oak Island I have been intrigued with it since I read the story about it in Reader's Digest as a kid and had been following it since - until the show came out.

Long story short but I tired of the show early on. By season two it appeared to be going nowhere. I firmly believe SOMETHING took place there - whether it was buried treasure or something entirely different however and it's most likely long gone now.

However with regard to the 'metal detecting' aspect of it I was always amused when Gary would find certain items like the lead cross, the tool parts & other various items and of course they all immediatly tried to 'piece' it together' as 'evidence' of this or that.

I have OFTEN metal detected in areas with a certain 'historical' significance and have have found many items as well but my point is none of it had any connection to anything specifically 'significant' to the area. It was just random stuff dropped over the years.

It's no different with the items they are finding. People have been visiting/living on Oak Island for over 200 years now and no doubt have worked, hiked, hunted, fished, whatever all over it and a lot of stuff has been dropped over time!

KOB 04-21-2022 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiDesertHunter (Post 3386251)
LOL ! Me too!

With regard to Oak Island I have been intrigued with it since I read the story about it in Reader's Digest as a kid and had been following it since - until the show came out.

Long story short but I tired of the show early on. By season two it appeared to be going nowhere. I firmly believe SOMETHING took place there - whether it was buried treasure or something entirely different however and it's most likely long gone now.

However with regard to the 'metal detecting' aspect of it I was always amused when Gary would find certain items like the lead cross, the tool parts & other various items and of course they all immediatly tried to 'piece' it together' as 'evidence' of this or that.

I have OFTEN metal detected in areas with a certain 'historical' significance and have have found many items as well but my point is none of it had any connection to anything specifically 'significant' to the area. It was just random stuff dropped over the years.

It's no different with the items they are finding. People have been visiting/living on Oak Island for over 200 years now and no doubt have worked, hiked, hunted, fished, whatever all over it and a lot of stuff has been dropped over time!

Same here with the reader's digest. After season 2 , it was a joke. I still look at it for 5 minutes but it is all the same. I think that ex - slave who owned all those lots and was seen in town spending big $ , then disappeared is the one who may have found the bulk of it.


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