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-   -   Did the FBI steal the Gold? Anyone know these guys? (https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=296218)

Cal_Cobra 04-19-2022 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbnhood66 (Post 3385540)
I liked it better when they were able to start digging up the "road" area coming out of the swamp until they ran into the pottery and got shut down.

Darn that pottery, caused my favorite archeologist to exit the program :bling:

ManInTheWaLL 04-19-2022 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385665)
Some things are wrong with that quote :

1) "Says who ?" If you google that combination of words, you get the same exact quote, from various other papers. Sounds to me like someone says that someone else said something. Heaven-forbid telephone game enters in. Then someone else morphs it into "This was exactly said", and then other sources pick it up and "links lead to links".

For example, similar word combo's lead to prior news sources, a year or more earlier, that said that , supposedly, Enviroscan had said "7 to 9 tons". Now it's morphed to 9 tons. Eh ?

And even THAT was at the prodding of one of Dennis's hitmen :roll: Ie.: Another goofball who is in league with Dennis and the belief. The quote starts there, as to what he thinks the FBI guy said. People have a tendency to interpret everything in light of their "prior commitments".

2) Stop and think for a minute man-in-the-wall : Think about "7 to 9 tons". Dude : I own a street sweeper company. Our street sweepers (the full-size municipal rigs) weigh 8 tons. It would take a crane to lift them. But hold on, let me guess : 7 to 9 tons of gold was curried in a couple of wagons pulled by horses or mules or whatever, eh ?

And stop and multiply that through the current spot market of melt-gold-value. Isn't that something like the entire reserves of some nations ?

3) And since when can any electronic device, aimed in from the surface, without digging an item up, TELL YOU THE WEIGHT ?? Perhaps size (dimension). But not weight.

For example: A metal detector can beep and tell you a metal object is down there. But can it tell you the weight of the object ? No. Of course not. You have to put it on a scale to know that ! Can anyone here tell us of any equipment that can tell someone an approx. weight, from a distance, w/o ever touching or seeing the object ??


Aren't you smelling something fishy ? I think these lovely quotes are just skewed tid-bits, twisted out of context by Dennis-&-gang, and then he runs and tells every news agency that : "The FBI said such & such "

Iíve kind of observed that heís not very bright.

you think with his great ability to find big treasures, he would be out there chasing more millions instead of bullshitting on these message boards.

I guess if Jesus can walk on water, maybe this story is true also :laughing:

stetam 04-19-2022 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal_Cobra (Post 3385677)
Darn that pottery, caused my favorite archeologist to exit the program :bling:

:D

Pete e 04-19-2022 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385665)
Some things are wrong with that quote :

1) "Says who ?" If you google that combination of words, you get the same exact quote, from various other papers. Sounds to me like someone says that someone else said something. Heaven-forbid telephone game enters in. Then someone else morphs it into "This was exactly said", and then other sources pick it up and "links lead to links".

For example, similar word combo's lead to prior news sources, a year or more earlier, that said that , supposedly, Enviroscan had said "7 to 9 tons". Now it's morphed to 9 tons. Eh ?

And even THAT was at the prodding of one of Dennis's hitmen :roll: Ie.: Another goofball who is in league with Dennis and the belief. The quote starts there, as to what he thinks the FBI guy said. People have a tendency to interpret everything in light of their "prior commitments".

2) Stop and think for a minute man-in-the-wall : Think about "7 to 9 tons". Dude : I own a street sweeper company. Our street sweepers (the full-size municipal rigs) weigh 8 tons. It would take a crane to lift them. But hold on, let me guess : 7 to 9 tons of gold was curried in a couple of wagons pulled by horses or mules or whatever, eh ?

And stop and multiply that through the current spot market of melt-gold-value. Isn't that something like the entire reserves of some nations ?

3) And since when can any electronic device, aimed in from the surface, without digging an item up, TELL YOU THE WEIGHT ?? Perhaps size (dimension). But not weight.

For example: A metal detector can beep and tell you a metal object is down there. But can it tell you the weight of the object ? No. Of course not. You have to put it on a scale to know that ! Can anyone here tell us of any equipment that can tell someone an approx. weight, from a distance, w/o ever touching or seeing the object ??


Aren't you smelling something fishy ? I think these lovely quotes are just skewed tid-bits, twisted out of context by Dennis-&-gang, and then he runs and tells every news agency that : "The FBI said such & such "

I am not going to argue the detail but if the FBI went to all that trouble to comission a survey from Enviroscan, and then carry out an excavation, which was filmed, I don't think it unreasonable that they produce a full report and make all the data public...if they genuinely did not find anything, what's the issue?

From the little I have read of this case, I don't particularly believe anything Treasure related was found, but by being less than fully transparent, the FBI are only fueling the conspiracy theories....

Tom_in_CA 04-19-2022 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal_Cobra (Post 3385673)
Oh but your wood and iron spikes aren't old :detector:

Haha, well it seems to me that you and I have found "old wood" and "old spikes" on some past treks of ours. Right ? Who woulda thunk that we walked right past a fabulous treasure ! :shock: :laughing:

Pete e 04-19-2022 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbnhood66 (Post 3385540)
I still like to watch it. After them putting Cassons down this year, as large as they are, I expected a little more. I think they are not really going about it in the right way. At this point I would think they would circle the largest area with Cassons, fill them, and weld some sort of beams across them so they could really dig it out and find out what is down there. I liked it better when they were able to start digging up the "road" area coming out of the swamp until they ran into the pottery and got shut down. The archeology part of it was real cool. I don't know....I think something happened there, but it is really starting to drag out. I used to love watching Gary metal detect, and that is what really put me over to get my own detector and start learning the art of the craft. But some of it is getting real tedious. I like the history part of it, and now that science is really being applied I like to watch it more when that is applied. The blacksmith is a nice guy, but I still think a lot of it is conjecture. The geologist guy is probably my favorite now, Dr. Spooner I think.

I think the thing that strikes me is how the technology they deployed has promised so much, but has not really delivered.

A couple of seasons ago, they had that extensive seismic survey which allegedly saw possible tunnels and chambers, but nothing really came of it...I was willing to concede that the natural limestone is probably a maze of natural caverns and tunnels anyway..

In the last series they did those ground water tests that showed high levels of silver and detectable amounts of gold in water from certain bore holes but so far they have failed to find the source...so were the people doing the ground water analysis snake oil salesmen or is there another explanation for the results?

davidlhyde63366 04-19-2022 08:45 PM

government required to start releasing documents
 
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-war-gold-hunt

normx2 04-19-2022 08:55 PM

The FBI would never steal anything!!! Well, unless it was connected with politics

Tom_in_CA 04-19-2022 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385685)
..... but if the FBI went to all that trouble to comission a survey from Enviroscan, and then carry out an excavation, which was filmed, I don't think it unreasonable that they produce a full report and make all the data public...if they genuinely did not find anything, what's the issue? ....

Pete, welcome to the world of government bureaucracy. And it's not just things like this (supposed-treasure-related). It's Anything that involves paperwork from the govt.

For example: When the govt. goes out to bid on putting a new roof on a DMV building, or pave a parking lot, or buying coffee pots or a toilet seat : The RFP (Requests for Proposals) can be 100 pages long ! I know because I have sometimes bid on govt. jobs for my company. Very onerous. Eg.: Legalese, Insurance spec's, non-discrimination spec's, non-collusion spec's, product spec's, blah blah blah

And now you know why uncle Sam pays $1000 for a toilet seat that you can get at the hardware store for $39. Or to pave a parking lot costs $100K. But if a private office building paved the same size parking lot, it would cost $30k. And be done with nothing but a handshake.

So the onerous amount of hurdles and delays have NOTHING to do with "proof of a treasure". It's just the normal way Uncle Sam works. And no, I do not think this means they are "hiding something". To prove this, try this :

1. Go to ANY institution of your choosing.. Eg.: a bank, a business, a government agency, a military institution, your neighbor's house, a church, OR WHATEVER....

2. Tell them : " I suspect you of foul play, corruption, or a crime."

3. Then tell them : " Therefore I need you to open up your records, un-redacted employee/personnel files, bank records, all your picture SD card files, let me snoop through your file cabinets, etc...."

4. What do you think your neighbor, the business, the bank, the govt office, etc..... is going to say to your demand ? They're gonna tell you to "bug off ". Right ? Try this at Area 51, or any military base and see what happens.

5. Ok then, by your standards then, they HAVE to be guilty of whatever your accusation is. Because.... gee.... otherwise they would give you carte-blanche to everything you demand. Ie.: Therefore they MUST be hiding something. Eh ?


6. Can I try this out on you and your household (or business or place of employment) ? Can I give you a list of things from your desk and computer and file cabinets that I want ?

7. And if I did this at your house, wouldn't you & your wife or your employer tell me to bug-off ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385685)
....but by being less than fully transparent, the FBI are only fueling the conspiracy theories....

Pete, I guarantee you that if the govt. did EVERYTHING that Dennis is demanding, and it showed "no treasure" that it would not stop Dennis from screaming "Treasure". Because it's like asking a bank robber "Did you rob a bank ?" OF COURSE the bank-robber is going to say "no". Therefore we can't trust anything the govt. hands over to Dennis.

Because here's what Dennis will do next : He'd claim it was doctored, whitewashed, scrubbed, etc..... In fact, he's already resorting to this fall-back position. I predicted it ahead of time on David's thread (you can see from the time-line). And it's already coming true.

Pete e 04-19-2022 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385708)
Pete, welcome to the world of government bureaucracy. And it's not just things like this (supposed-treasure-related). It's Anything that involves paperwork from the govt.

For example: When the govt. goes out to bid on putting a new roof on a DMV building, or pave a parking lot, or buying coffee pots or a toilet seat : The RFP (Requests for Proposals) can be 100 pages long ! I know because I have sometimes bid on govt. jobs for my company. Very onerous. Eg.: Legalese, Insurance spec's, non-discrimination spec's, non-collusion spec's, product spec's, blah blah blah

And now you know why uncle Sam pays $1000 for a toilet seat that you can get at the hardware store for $39. Or to pave a parking lot costs $100K. But if a private office building paved the same size parking lot, it would cost $30k. And be done with nothing but a handshake.

So the onerous amount of hurdles and delays have NOTHING to do with "proof of a treasure". It's just the normal way Uncle Sam works. And no, I do not think this means they are "hiding something". To prove this, try this :

1. Go to ANY institution of your choosing.. Eg.: a bank, a business, a government agency, a military institution, your neighbor's house, a church, OR WHATEVER....

2. Tell them : " I suspect you of foul play, corruption, or a crime."

3. Then tell them : " Therefore I need you to open up your records, un-redacted employee/personnel files, bank records, all your picture SD card files, let me snoop through your file cabinets, etc...."

4. What do you think your neighbor, the business, the bank, the govt office, etc..... is going to say to your demand ? They're gonna tell you to "bug off ". Right ? Try this at Area 51, or any military base and see what happens.

5. Ok then, by your standards then, they HAVE to be guilty of whatever your accusation is. Because.... gee.... otherwise they would give you carte-blanche to everything you demand. Ie.: Therefore they MUST be hiding something. Eh ?


6. Can I try this out on you and your household (or business or place of employment) ? Can I give you a list of things from your desk and computer and file cabinets that I want ?

7. And if I did this at your house, wouldn't you & your wife or your employer tell me to bug-off ?

I don't see those situations as comparable...in this case, Denis has persuaded the FBI to commission a survey by an independent contractor that seems to have released info into the public domain that they detected "something" and the results were compelling enough for the FBI to then carry out quite an extensive dig...

Once the dig was complete, the FBI says nothing to see here and will not release any further info, even when compelled under the Freedom of Information laws...

Looking at the court ruling on the matter, it seems the judge feels broadly the same way as me, and has ordered the various files released in a timely manner.

Will this satisfy Denis? Probably not, but it probably will satisfy more neutral observers like ourselves...At the very least, it should hold the FBI accountable for why they spent a substantial sum of tax payers money on the whole project, a project which yielded nothing..

Tom_in_CA 04-19-2022 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385716)
.... they detected "something" and the results were compelling enough for the FBI to then carry out quite an extensive dig......


That's not the way I understand what "compelled" them to go wave their Enviroscan or dig or whatever. The ONLY reason any govt. people were there, is NOT because they "detected something". It's because Dennis spent years, banging on their doors. Insisting that something was on their govt. land. A fabulous treasure. Finally they agree to go look. And presto, the conspiracy theory is born.

So don't you see that the "smoke" here is not some supposed evidence of Enviroscan or "9 tons", etc.... The smoke is entirely of Dennis' own making.

Let me give you an example : If I went to various law enforcement agencies near me and say : "I know where 10 murder victim bodies are buried in the desert ". And rattled their cages long enough, I bet I can get them to dig in the spot I show them.

And if they say they didn't find bodies, then I can take and twist things that I think one of their crew said, and announce a conspiracy.

If I try hard enough, I can see and smell "fishy things" as proof. Like : One of the govt. people had "squinty eyes". They set up suspicious cameras. They drove big trucks (big enough to cart off 10 bodies without anyone seeing). They don't tell me what their grade school teacher's name was at my demand, etc....

metaladdict 04-19-2022 10:05 PM

Uh oh, let's not get govt, politics into this or I will have to shut this thread down!:police::police:

Tom_in_CA 04-19-2022 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385716)
.....

Pete, do your research on this guy . About another treasure prior to this Dents Run gig. I talk about it in post #7. Find the details about that.

At what point doesn't Dennis' credibility suffer ??

I can sit here and play wack-a-mole trying to give "more plausible explanations" all-day-long about the Enviroscan supposed quote. Who said it. If that's what they said, etc.... And then what do I have to do ? Serve Enviroscan with court-ordered papers to open up their data, and re-interview supposed person who said supposed something (which I'm sure no one was standing around recording that day's conversation).

So let's just cut to the chase, instead of playing wack-a-mole : Let's see one red cent. And that will put an end to it.

To say that "we'll never see a red cent because the govt. stole and hid the $$", is like me saying : Pete is a murderer. And I can conjure up all sorts of proofs. Ie.: Prove where you were 6 months ago, on 10/19/21. Explain the scratch on your left front bumper. Your neighbors say you've been acting suspiciously lately. A car was seen driving past your house at 2am last week, acting strangely. Open up your bank account records, your phone SD card, your file cabinets, etc....

If you fail to provide all these proofs, then this means you are a murderer. And if you deny it and say "No I'm not", then that's ALL THE MORE PROOF ! (since, of course, murderers never admit to being murderers).

So let's see a single penny. The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. The burden of proof is on the claimants.

chillforlife 04-20-2022 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL (Post 3385680)
I guess if Jesus can walk on water, maybe this story is true also :laughing

Kinda reminds me of religion.

:

Wow, only 16 posts and you've managed to alienate the majority of posters here. Keep up the good work, but maybe you should keep your anti-religion bias to yourself. Along with politics.

Beachhunt1 04-20-2022 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhyde63366 (Post 3385702)

That is great info! 17 vids down to 3 or 5? Lots of doccuments down to a handful.........YA SOMTHING HAPPENED THERE!

Pete e 04-20-2022 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA (Post 3385740)
Pete, do your research on this guy . About another treasure prior to this Dents Run gig. I talk about it in post #7. Find the details about that.

At what point doesn't Dennis' credibility suffer ??

I can sit here and play wack-a-mole trying to give "more plausible explanations" all-day-long about the Enviroscan supposed quote. Who said it. If that's what they said, etc.... And then what do I have to do ? Serve Enviroscan with court-ordered papers to open up their data, and re-interview supposed person who said supposed something (which I'm sure no one was standing around recording that day's conversation).

So let's just cut to the chase, instead of playing wack-a-mole : Let's see one red cent. And that will put an end to it.

To say that "we'll never see a red cent because the govt. stole and hid the $$", is like me saying : Pete is a murderer. And I can conjure up all sorts of proofs. Ie.: Prove where you were 6 months ago, on 10/19/21. Explain the scratch on your left front bumper. Your neighbors say you've been acting suspiciously lately. A car was seen driving past your house at 2am last week, acting strangely. Open up your bank account records, your phone SD card, your file cabinets, etc....

If you fail to provide all these proofs, then this means you are a murderer. And if you deny it and say "No I'm not", then that's ALL THE MORE PROOF ! (since, of course, murderers never admit to being murderers).

So let's see a single penny. The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. The burden of proof is on the claimants.

Tom,

You are arguing whether there is a treasure there or not, or whether Denis is credible, I am not..

My take, the same as the Judge, is that the FBI needs to be transparent with the results of their investigation and release the files concerned as required under the freedom of information laws...Nothing more and nothing less...

Do I think there was gold buried down there? 99.999% No...

I am not a geologist nor a survey expert, but my very uneducated guess would be something natural like iron stone or some super concentrated deposits of black sand....

ManInTheWaLL 04-20-2022 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillforlife (Post 3385783)
Wow, only 16 posts and you've managed to alienate the majority of posters here. Keep up the good work, but maybe you should keep your anti-religion bias to yourself. Along with politics.

I posted a very popular article, and I am being accused of causing the political division in the USA. (WINK). Go along to get along, shut my brain off and just follow?

As for religion & politics, is that not permitted on the board?

Cfmct 04-20-2022 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheWaLL (Post 3385813)
I posted a very popular article, and I am being accused of causing the political division in the USA. (WINK). Go along to get along, shut my brain off and just follow?

As for religion & politics, is that not permitted on the board?


No...

2. No Politics, Religion, Sex, or Drugs
- Discussions of politics and religion inevitably lead to arguments, so they are best left to other political and religious forums on the web.
No racial, ethnic, gender, discriminatory, or religiously derogatory comments, not even in jest, are allowed.
- Sexual innuendos, advances, or "hitting" on another member via posts or PM's will NOT be tolerated.
- No posting pictures of illegal/prescription drugs and/or paraphernalia..... or talking about/ insinuating drug use.

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachhunt1 (Post 3385787)
That is great info! 17 vids down to 3 or 5? Lots of doccuments down to a handful.........YA SOMTHING HAPPENED THERE!

Call me optimistic, but I'll bet there's a perfectly benign explanation, that has NOTHING to do with bolstering a "fabulous stolen treasure" explanation.

Here's what's going on : Dennis will pester every agency from here to China, for a million things (that he claims people said, blah blah). Until FINALLY he finds something they lost, or they refuse, or they don't care, etc... Eg.: The underwear size of one of the truck drivers, the middle initial on the janitor who was on duty at state capital that night, etc..... And then : PRESTO : They *MUST* be hiding something sinister ! So that we can automatically assume : A fabulous treasure ! :roll:

Tom_in_CA 04-20-2022 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385795)
....You are arguing whether there is a treasure there or not, or whether Denis is credible, I am not......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385795)
...Nothing more and nothing less.......

Ah, so your only interest in this story is judicial in nature . Nothing treasure related. Eh ? Well seeing as how this is a metal detecting (treasure) forum, it stood to reason that your take-on-the-issue was the treasure part of the story. Not the judicial legalese part of the story.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete e (Post 3385795)
.... 99.999% No.......

Ah, see there ? You're holding out .001% hope/belief . That there's a treasure. So there's a tiny smidgeon of your concern that is treasure related :laughing:


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