VANQUISH 440

[MSmetal25]

Good morning guys! I decided to take one step up from my cheap Amazon bought detector so I got the Vanquish 440 last week. One area I hunt is the site of an old church started in 1845 in north Mississippi. As you might imagine, the site is littered with the old square nails. Give a new guy your best advice for a site like this with this machine. My first time here with the Vanquish I ran a good bit in money setting but still dug nothing but nails. If this were one of you more experienced guys that know this machine, what settings, tones, numbers should I be paying attention to to avoid some of the nail digging? I appreciate all you guys helping us newbies!

 

[Diga]

Are you certain you were in the coin program when digging all those nails, because the coin program discriminates out iron. Also, you may be getting nonferrous signals, dig a nail, but aren't rechecking the plugs and holes to find the target that was causing the nonferrous signal. Other than that, a too high sensitivity level can cause iron falsing. What sensitivity level were you using?

 

[LovestheShiny!]

I have used the Vanquish 440 a couple of times, was frustrated with the iron falsing. I turned down the sensitivity and that problem went away for the most part. The falsing would give a nice high tone just like a silver or copper coin.

 

[beardy3344]

I have used the Vanquish 440 a couple of times, was frustrated with the iron falsing. I turned down the sensitivity and that problem went away for the most part. The falsing would give a nice high tone just like a silver or copper coin.

This was my experience as well and one of my main reasons for upgrading to a Legend last year. Still dig the occasional iron junk but far less often than I did with my 440.

 

[rcornell]

I have lots of experience with the Vanquish 440 in an area that has 100's of nails and other iron. First, I don't think that Coin mode discriminates out iron? When I ran in Coin mode I still hit every nail there was.... ringing in at about 18-22 or so (penny range). I could hit the 'horseshoe' and it would tell me that it was Iron or not. If not, it could well be a penny or token or such. If yes, I would dig it anyway because I am an eternal optimist. That all being said, I usually use Jewelry mode here. It just seems to 'feel' a bit better as I go. However, I still hit all of those nails with the same process as outlined above. Now, if you don't care about digging Pennies (maybe a nice IHP) or tokens, then ignore all of those lower tones and only dig 25 and up or so. Please take everything that I have said here with a grain of salt as I am pretty new (2nd year done and now froze in again). However, I did dig several Wheats, a nice V nickel, a Silver War nickel, a Barber Dime, a Mercury Dime, and a Rosie along with a couple of really cool tokens. Anyway, I love my Vanquish 440 and I hope you will too!

 

[rcornell]

Are you certain you were in the coin program when digging all those nails, because the coin program discriminates out iron. Also, you may be getting nonferrous signals, dig a nail, but aren't rechecking the plugs and holes to find the target that was causing the nonferrous signal. Other than that, a too high sensitivity level can cause iron falsing. What sensitivity level were you using?

Remember, I am pretty new here. Also, you can see my post below for more info. Not sure what you mean by the Coin program discriminating out iron? In my experience, in either Coin or Jewelry... those nails ring up about the same (18-24 or so). It is not like you can just turn on Coin and all of those nail signals go away....

 

[Diga]

Remember, I am pretty new here. Also, you can see my post below for more info. Not sure what you mean by the Coin program discriminating out iron? In my experience, in either Coin or Jewelry... those nails ring up about the same (18-24 or so). It is not like you can just turn on Coin and all of those nail signals go away....

The coin program and the jewelry program use a discrimination pattern that discriminates out most nails. Being new to this, MSmetal may have accidently switched his 440 into All Metal mode in which nails are not discriminated out. Also, newbies often run the sensitivity level too high. That can cause nail falsing and why I asked what sensitivity level was being used.

I didn't have my 540 very long, but when I did, I was coin shooting in parks while using the custom program to discriminate out zinc pennies and everything below that. I recall typically using a sensitivity level of 7. I don't recall digging nails that were being identified as nonferrous. Or, I did dig some nails that were being identified as nonferrous, but not enough that I considered it to be a problem. I dug lots of coins though

 

[MSmetal25]

Are you certain you were in the coin program when digging all those nails, because the coin program discriminates out iron. Also, you may be getting nonferrous signals, dig a nail, but aren't rechecking the plugs and holes to find the target that was causing the nonferrous signal. Other than that, a too high sensitivity level can cause iron falsing. What sensitivity level were you using?

Yes, definitely in coin mode. It was ringing up some of these nails in the 20s. I’m going out again tomorrow so I’ll play around with some other settings and sensitivity.

 

[MSmetal25]

I have lots of experience with the Vanquish 440 in an area that has 100's of nails and other iron. First, I don't think that Coin mode discriminates out iron? When I ran in Coin mode I still hit every nail there was.... ringing in at about 18-22 or so (penny range). I could hit the 'horseshoe' and it would tell me that it was Iron or not. If not, it could well be a penny or token or such. If yes, I would dig it anyway because I am an eternal optimist. That all being said, I usually use Jewelry mode here. It just seems to 'feel' a bit better as I go. However, I still hit all of those nails with the same process as outlined above. Now, if you don't care about digging Pennies (maybe a nice IHP) or tokens, then ignore all of those lower tones and only dig 25 and up or so. Please take everything that I have said here with a grain of salt as I am pretty new (2nd year done and now froze in again). However, I did dig several Wheats, a nice V nickel, a Silver War nickel, a Barber Dime, a Mercury Dime, and a Rosie along with a couple of really cool tokens. Anyway, I love my Vanquish 440 and I hope you will too!

Thanks for the reply! Out of curiosity, what numbers would an Indian Head ring up??

 

[Diga]

When you dig up a nail, are you swinging over the plug and the hole to make sure all the targets are found?

 

[rcornell]

Thanks for the reply! Out of curiosity, what numbers would an Indian Head ring up??

Right in that same range of 18-24. Not much different than a current penny.

 

[rcornell]

The coin program and the jewelry program use a discrimination pattern that discriminates out most nails. Being new to this, MSmetal may have accidently switched his 440 into All Metal mode in which nails are not discriminated out. Also, newbies often run the sensitivity level too high. That can cause nail falsing and why I asked what sensitivity level was being used.

I didn't have my 540 very long, but when I did, I was coin shooting in parks while using the custom program to discriminate out zinc pennies and everything below that. I recall typically using a sensitivity level of 7. I don't recall digging nails that were being identified as nonferrous. Or, I did dig some nails that were being identified as nonferrous, but not enough that I considered it to be a problem. I dug lots of coins though

Thanks for your reply. Again, please remember that I am pretty new (2 years... all with the 440). I am replying from a place of experience and am sure I have more to learn! I have been over, and over, and over this park site with NAILS every 6 inches. I have worked with COIN mode and JEWELRY mode. You still get a signal (18-24) every few inches (and, by golly, there IS a nail there if you choose to dig it). You can use All Metal (I don't run with it on!) to check what it says... it will give you a Low Tone 98% of the time (or more), saying Iron. The times that it doesn't, there may well be something good there like an IHP or a Wheat or a Token. When it does say Iron... there is a Nail there. Now granted, there may be something good around there too so, of course, rescan the plug & hole to see (you may well find 2 or 3 nails, but you might find something good that was masked). What I have NOT tried is to Notch out 18-24, mainly because I love to find old Pennies and Tokens. I will try that this year and see if it results in any Silver. However, and correct me if I am wrong... just because those signals are notched out doesn't mean that the Nails are not going to mask the Silver that is nearby, it's just that I am not going to be told there is a Nail there. My advice to the OP is dig lots of nails, run in Jewelry mode (not many tabs around to cause problems) to catch those old Nickels (and maybe a Gold Ring or 2), and watch for those fun signals of 25 or more!

 

[Diga]

rcornel,

Even the best detectors false on ferrous targets no matter what. Especially if the site is a blanket of nails. Most nails should be discriminated out on the Vanquish if it's set up correctly. Before I bought my 540, I did a crazy amount of research about it and spoke with Vanquish owners as well. Not once did I ever come across anyone saying that the Vanquish has a serious nail falsing problem. This thread is the first I've heard of that.

I guess pressing the horseshoe button to engage all metal mode can be helpful, but constantly having to do that sounds really inefficient and annoying lol.

In your bed of nails sites, what sensitivity level do you use?

 

[rcornell]

rcornel,

Even the best detectors false on ferrous targets no matter what. Especially if the site is a blanket of nails. Most nails should be discriminated out on the Vanquish if it's set up correctly. Before I bought my 540, I did a crazy amount of research about it and spoke with Vanquish owners as well. Not once did I ever come across anyone saying that the Vanquish has a serious nail falsing problem. This thread is the first I've heard of that.

I guess pressing the horseshoe button to engage all metal mode can be helpful, but constantly having to do that sounds really inefficient and annoying lol.

In your bed of nails sites, what sensitivity level do you use?

Thanks!

So when you say "false on ferrous targets", you mean give a signal other than Iron (like 18-24) when it picks
up a ferrous target? You don't mean signal that there is something there when there isn't, right? Because
if there are Nails every 6 inches, there will be a Nail there.

You say "most nails should be discriminated out on the Vanquish if it's set up correctly." By set up correctly,
what exactly do you mean? On the 440 your options are the mode (Coin, Jewelry, etc), actively Notching Out
certain numbers on your own, or SENSITIVITY. (Or, I suppose running in All Iron mode... which defeats the purpose
of what we are talking about.) So, I guess that is why you are asking about Sensitivity.

I usually run Sensitivity at about 6 or 7, I suppose. Usually, test it and back it off until any 'chirps' go away. Perhaps,
you are indicating that I should back it off further and test over those known Nails? I will gladly test lower sensitivity
when the Freeze is out and I am able to get back out there!

That brings me back to this: Even if the detector is discriminating out Nails... doesn't mean that it is going to give a
good signal on a masked good target, right? In other words, if the Nail is there, it is still going to mask the good
target (discriminated out or not)?

Options: Discriminate out (or ignore) Nails and just look for good signals (something good not by a nail...few
and far between) or.... dig lots of Nails thus removing them to unmask nearby good targets (and at the same
time allowing you to find Pennies and Tokens).

I appreciate your help and input... keep it coming.

 

[rcornell]

The coin program and the jewelry program use a discrimination pattern that discriminates out most nails. Being new to this, MSmetal may have accidently switched his 440 into All Metal mode in which nails are not discriminated out. Also, newbies often run the sensitivity level too high. That can cause nail falsing and why I asked what sensitivity level was being used.

I didn't have my 540 very long, but when I did, I was coin shooting in parks while using the custom program to discriminate out zinc pennies and everything below that. I recall typically using a sensitivity level of 7. I don't recall digging nails that were being identified as nonferrous. Or, I did dig some nails that were being identified as nonferrous, but not enough that I considered it to be a problem. I dug lots of coins though

It doesn't sound like you were detecting in an area that was littered with Nails.

 

[Diga]

Thanks!

So when you say "false on ferrous targets", you mean give a signal other than Iron (like 18-24) when it picks
up a ferrous target?
YES.

You don't mean signal that there is something there when there isn't, right?
Right.

You say "most nails should be discriminated out on the Vanquish if it's set up correctly." By set up correctly,
what exactly do you mean? On the 440 your options are the mode (Coin, Jewelry, etc), actively Notching Out
certain numbers on your own, or SENSITIVITY.
I mean not using All Metal mode and using a mode such as Coin mode which discriminates out the ferrous targets, along with lowering the sensitivity.

I usually run Sensitivity at about 6 or 7, I suppose. Usually, test it and back it off until any 'chirps' go away. Perhaps,
you are indicating that I should back it off further and test over those known Nails? I will gladly test lower sensitivity
when the Freeze is out and I am able to get back out there!
Sure, drop it to five and see what happens.

That brings me back to this: Even if the detector is discriminating out Nails... doesn't mean that it is going to give a
good signal on a masked good target, right? In other words, if the Nail is there, it is still going to mask the good
target (discriminated out or not)? If the nail is beside a coin, then it is effectively a "masked" or "collocated" target.
In most cases if that coin is detectable (not overly masked), then the coin would typically give a nonferrous signal regardless of whether or not ferrous is discriminated out.


It doesn't sound like you were detecting in an area that was littered with Nails. I don't know how littered with nails the parks were, due to the way I set up the 540.
My sites are generally only 100 years old max.

Your sites may have much older square head nails that have a lot of iron halo and be the source of more potential iron falsing. If that's true and lowering the sensitivity more doesn't help, you may want to consider a more advanced detector that can deal with the iron better.

Are you using the stock coil on your 440 in those bed of nails sites?

 

[stetam]

Thanks for your reply. Again, please remember that I am pretty new (2 years... all with the 440). I am replying from a place of experience and am sure I have more to learn! I have been over, and over, and over this park site with NAILS every 6 inches. I have worked with COIN mode and JEWELRY mode. You still get a signal (18-24) every few inches (and, by golly, there IS a nail there if you choose to dig it). You can use All Metal (I don't run with it on!) to check what it says... it will give you a Low Tone 98% of the time (or more), saying Iron. The times that it doesn't, there may well be something good there like an IHP or a Wheat or a Token. When it does say Iron... there is a Nail there. Now granted, there may be something good around there too so, of course, rescan the plug & hole to see (you may well find 2 or 3 nails, but you might find something good that was masked). What I have NOT tried is to Notch out 18-24, mainly because I love to find old Pennies and Tokens. I will try that this year and see if it results in any Silver. However, and correct me if I am wrong... just because those signals are notched out doesn't mean that the Nails are not going to mask the Silver that is nearby, it's just that I am not going to be told there is a Nail there. My advice to the OP is dig lots of nails, run in Jewelry mode (not many tabs around to cause problems) to catch those old Nickels (and maybe a Gold Ring or 2), and watch for those fun signals of 25 or more!

IMO you are doing it right. You’re gonna dig rusty nails and small scrap BUT you are also gonna dig good stuff. I say that with confidence and experience.

 

[ucnegold?]

Thanks for the reply! Out of curiosity, what numbers would an Indian Head ring up??

IHP's almost always ring up a 19 or 20 on my Vanquish.

As for the nails... focus more on the tones you are hearing from the machine. I found that nails or other iron trash would have a tendency to produce a kind of clipped, rough edged type tone towards the end of the coil passing over the target. Swing over the target at varying degrees and listen for repeating smooth, sort of "round" tones.

 

[spence]

Good morning guys! I decided to take one step up from my cheap Amazon bought detector so I got the Vanquish 440 last week. One area I hunt is the site of an old church started in 1845 in north Mississippi. As you might imagine, the site is littered with the old square nails. Give a new guy your best advice for a site like this with this machine. My first time here with the Vanquish I ran a good bit in money setting but still dug nothing but nails. If this were one of you more experienced guys that know this machine, what settings, tones, numbers should I be paying attention to to avoid some of the nail digging? I appreciate all you guys helping us newbies!

My 540 will false in coin mode on a twisted bent crusty nail too. The difference is especially in coin mode, I find coins have a much more solid VDI when swinging over it at any conceivable direction. Nails still blow through the discrimination but they have a wider vdi and a bit more jumpy or choppy VDI.

 

[beardy3344]

Yes, definitely in coin mode. It was ringing up some of these nails in the 20s. I’m going out again tomorrow so I’ll play around with some other settings and sensitivity.

Ok, just had a repressed 440 memory. It's been about a year since I've used mine. Hit the "horseshoe" button to enable all metal mode if you think the target you are swinging over may be sketchy. If you hear that iron grunt mixed in with the higher tone, you are most likely over an iron target that is giving you a false signal. Granted, you could also be swinging over a coin that is underneath of a rusty old nail as well. I don't think there is a perfect formula, but all metal mode does give you an additional data point some of the time.