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Manticore worth the wait?

Kidlestar,

You're making arguments for something different than what I said.

You even quoted me as saying, "it wouldn't matter if the target is junk or a non round shape", but you left out the latter part of that statement which said, "As long as the target has a solid ID, then it will show as a perfect circle on the 2d screen".

Perhaps I shouldn't have made my point into 2 sequential sentences? Perhaps I should have used one sentence with a comma and said, "It wouldn't matter if the target is junk or a non round shape, as long as the target has a solid ID, then it will show as a perfect circle on the 2d screen".
 
Kidlestar,

You're making arguments for something different than what I said.

You even quoted me as saying, "it wouldn't matter if the target is junk or a non round shape", but you left out the latter part of that statement which said, "As long as the target has a solid ID, then it will show as a perfect circle on the 2d screen".

Perhaps I shouldn't have made my point into 2 sequential sentences? Perhaps I should have used one sentence with a comma and said, "It wouldn't matter if the target is junk or a non round shape, as long as the target has a solid ID, then it will show as a perfect circle on the 2d screen".
Sorry Very true,
My point was the 2D screen is ONLY telling if the object it ferrous or not.
Thanks,
Tom
 
Yes
The horizontal axis only reflects the TID.
But all ferrous objects will register in the areas whether on not you have them disc or not.
Just as with the CTX, all other WILL NOT reflect on the axis if it is ferrous, with some exceptions on trash or if the object in perpendicular to the surface or very deep. I hit a buff that showed a smeared out line on the axis.
Thanks
Tom

I think it might be slightly more accurate to say the TT screen shows what is reporting as ferrous or non via audio. Move the ferrous limits so a target falls within the gray area and it reports as ferrous. Move the limits so the exact same target falls in the "white" area and it reports as non ferrous. Whether the target is actually ferrous, or not. You get to decide how you want those targets to report. Which, I see as quite useful for making site specific adjustments on the fly.

Actually calling a target by the TT, eh, meh, maybe on shallow targets and/or mild soil. But I'm not trusting it on anything deep or in mineralized dirt. On a 10" silver dime buried fifteen years ago (so maybe deeper now?) in my coin garden, the TT looks like crap. Nothing like a nice round dot. It's a smear from the top of the screen to the bottom. But the tones sound like definite dig me sounds. Looking at the TT, it is anything but a nice round dot on the non ferrous line though.

But I never expected to get too, too much out of the 2D screen, so I'm not mad about it. As long as the tones sound good on deep silver, that works for me. I kinda hate having to look at the screen too much anyway. And I'm seeing noticeable EMI handling improvement over the Nox 800, which is all I really hoped for from the Manticore.

- Dave
 
Sorry Very true,
My point was the 2D screen is ONLY telling if the object it ferrous or not.
Thanks,
Tom

No problem Tom. I figured there was some sort of misunderstanding between what we were both saying :)
 
The 2D screen is an extra tool. It's been debated ad nauseam whether it's useful. I say it is. I think everyone with a Manticore should get some rusty old iron nails, and coins and study what they see in different scenarios. Same goes with aluminum trash and coins. I know there are probably infinite scenarios, but I think a person over time could notice some things to help making a useful dig decision.

Nox 800- Using a bent rusty nail and a clad dime swing in one direction you get nothing but iron grunt and iron numbers. Turn 90 degrees you get an I.D. of 19 if the dime is the first thing the coil hits, and a -3 as you go over the nail first. They are close enough you get two I.D.'s jumping from positive to negative on each swing making you wonder is it just falsing iron? Remember no matter how you turn you either get no non-ferrous tone at all as in constant iron grunt or a combo ferrous non- ferrous as you circle. Do you dig?

The Manticore does the exact same thing as the 800 does. The only difference is the I.D. is higher because of 99 segments you have a 55 I.D. on the non-ferrous and a 50 in Ferrous with a red line indicating ferrous. It basically goes from nail=redline to dime=no redline on the I.D. portion of the screen. The tone is again a higher tone mixed with an iron grunt. The thing is though with the manticore you can see 2 targets on the 2D portion of the screen clearly close together due to where they fall on the scale both in the 50's (Due to nail dragging down dime I.D.), but one blob solidly in the ferrous the other in-between the non-ferrous line and the ferrous. Clearly you know to dig because you can see 2 targets.

Again there are a gazillion different scenarios and a great many I'm assuming won't show you clearly two targets on the screen. Some guys may even be smart enough to dig just based on what the 800 was telling them. Me personally I like the option of being able to possibly as in the above scenario see two distinct targets.
 
Nox 800- Using a bent rusty nail and a clad dime swing in one direction you get nothing but iron grunt and iron numbers. Turn 90 degrees you get an I.D. of 19 if the dime is the first thing the coil hits, and a -3 as you go over the nail first. They are close enough you get two I.D.'s jumping from positive to negative on each swing making you wonder is it just falsing iron? Remember no matter how you turn you either get no non-ferrous tone at all as in constant iron grunt or a combo ferrous non- ferrous as you circle. Do you dig?

With iron falsing, there wouldn't be any ferrous indication, so I don't think that could be called iron falsing.

Alternating between a ferrous and nonferrous ID would generally mean a ferrous target and a nonferrous target. So yes, I would definitely dig.

In that scenario, the Nox is showing 2 targets, and so is the Manti. But yes, some will find it helpful how the 2D displays those targets.
 
I don't have the Manticore but saw someone who bought it recently and so far he's disappointed in its performance. His claim is it's too unstable/sensitive. Seems like an easy adjustment to fix? Maybe just a lengthy learning curve? But he said not any better for him than the 800 save for better construction on the coil ears and shaft.
 
I don't have the Manticore but saw someone who bought it recently and so far he's disappointed in its performance. His claim is it's too unstable/sensitive. Seems like an easy adjustment to fix? Maybe just a lengthy learning curve? But he said not any better for him than the 800 save for better construction on the coil ears and shaft.
Kweis,

I don't have enough experience with my Manticore since I've had it a little over a week and only taken it to beaches and parks, perhaps I don't know how to dial it in right yet. I went to a park today that I hunted with my EQ800 and even when noise cancelling, ground balancing and lowering sensitivity to about 18, I was not happy with all the chatter and false signals every swing. I was having the same issue with my EQ800 but not quite as bad.

Could be that the park I am hunting is really trashy? I was also having trouble at the beach with chatter.
 
Kweis,

I don't have enough experience with my Manticore since I've had it a little over a week and only taken it to beaches and parks, perhaps I don't know how to dial it in right yet. I went to a park today that I hunted with my EQ800 and even when noise cancelling, ground balancing and lowering sensitivity to about 18, I was not happy with all the chatter and false signals every swing. I was having the same issue with my EQ800 but not quite as bad.

Could be that the park I am hunting is really trashy? I was also having trouble at the beach with chatter.
Did you do the long press noise cancel? Did you ground balance on clean spot?

In my opinion it's better in EMI situations than my Equinox 800 is. That being said I'm sure there will be some places you may have to turn the Manticore down. If you ask me today about what I think of the Manticore? I'd have to be honest and say it has not wowed me yet. It's still very early, so I could change my mind. Time will tell. Maybe I just expected it to be much better performance wise than the Equinox. Maybe my expectaions were set to high. As of now I'm not seeing anything other than EMI handling abilities that surpasses the Equinox to any great degree. The 2D screen in certain situations can be useful, but even it has not been as useful as I had hoped.
 
Did you do the long press noise cancel? Did you ground balance on clean spot?

In my opinion it's better in EMI situations than my Equinox 800 is. That being said I'm sure there will be some places you may have to turn the Manticore down. If you ask me today about what I think of the Manticore? I'd have to be honest and say it has not wowed me yet. It's still very early, so I could change my mind. Time will tell. Maybe I just expected it to be much better performance wise than the Equinox. Maybe my expectaions were set to high. As of now I'm not seeing anything other than EMI handling abilities that surpasses the Equinox to any great degree. The 2D screen in certain situations can be useful, but even it has not been as useful as I had hoped.
I'll keep trying.. I am also going to put my phone in airplane mode and see if that makes a difference

Now that I think of it, though I really like the Manticore's full color LCD display, I might have done better to go with the EQ900 for $600 less which includes a 6" coil too, which now I have to buy separately and is going to cost me another $180 on top of the $1600 I already paid.... hindsight is 20/20
 
The 2D screen in certain situations can be useful, but even it has not been as useful as I had hoped.

So far, I keep forgetting to look at the 2D screen. I need to work on that. But for me, I foresee the primary usefulness of the 2D screen to be in setting ferrous limits for site specific conditions. Maybe I'll learn to use it for helping in dig/no dig too. But right here at first, I'm still in my old habits, I hear a good signal and I dig and honestly just forget the 2D screen is even there most of the time.

All in all I'm happy with the machine so far. I'm seeing a real improvement in EMI handling. That's big for me. The numbers are matching up pretty close to my old Whites XLT and it's like I already knew them right from the start - I was calling zincs from coppers and dimes from quarters on the first hunt. It does seem more sparky and less stable ID wise than the 800. The sparky part doesn't bother me but the less stable TID's are mildly irritating me so far. But I'd guess things will only get better with more hours on it.

The point made above about the 900 coming with the 6" coil is not trivial, for people deciding what or if to buy. I will buy both Manticore coils when they become available but the small M8 elliptical is the one I really NEED. I think adding that cost to the purchase price when comparing the 900 to the Manticore is well worth considering.

- Dave
 
I got better results today too at a park that was giving me trouble. I have to admit, I didnt thoroughly read the users manual and today I did, then went to that same park and it was way more stable. My bad
 
Had the Manticore been in stock when I bought my D2 I'd probably have gone with it, but I didn't see enough advantage for me to wait in line.
 
I have the Equinox 800, the Deus II, and the Manticore and can confidently say that both are fantastic. What I have noticed so far is that the Manticore has picked up some targets that the Deus missed just in my own yard (that’s the only place I can be 100% certain it isn’t just that I missed that spot or that this was dropped by someone since my last visit). The Deus is remarkably light and comfortable to swing for hours. The manticore isn’t bad, but I really dislike the headphones (I’m waiting on one more part before moving them to a new body).

For me, the Deus completely supplanted my Equinox 800 purely for weight and size. For traveling with my Equinox, I got Steve from Steve’s Detector Rods to make a rod for me that had a counter balance, but then fitting it with a 3D printed hinge that let me fold the controller box flat and fit it all into a 42” hard case. By comparison, my Deus II was so light that I could run it for a few hours and not feel a thing - and it fit into a backpack. My Equinox is far from being obsolete, but I don’t want to drive all over with it. I gave it to my dad a few months ago so he could explore the woods by his house.

When the Manticore arrived, it reminded me of an Equinox 800 but better. From the menu system to the 2D target ID to target trace to the notch button to the integrated flashlight, this thing is just really well thought out (except for the headphones). It does have some iron falsing issues, but I’m hoping a firmware update will fix that. The two things that make me reach for the Manticore over the Deus II at the moment are:
  1. It’s new (~1.5 months old) and therefore novel
  2. The Deus II batteries are annoying. I haven’t been caught out with a dead battery yet, but I have got out and seen that I was at 1 bar on either my control box, my coil, my headphones, or my pinpointer a few times. They have a good squid cable that charges the control box, coil, and headphones simultaneously, but you’re on your own if you also need to charge a pinpointer.

One other thing to consider is the posibility of wanting/needing to modify the device. For what you pay, I think the Manticore is much closer to an “out-of-the-box” win. The Deus II started out as a good detector in my eyes, but became a great detector once I replaced the lower shaft with a carbon lower shaft from a Nokta Simplex. It’s ~$100, so not a big deal, but for some reason that bothered me. I wasn’t terribly pleased with the Deus II WS6 headphones out of the box either. They are nice and compact, but I had occasional issues with fit or with the hinge giving out and folding slightly while I was wearing them. The WSA II XLs were a massive step up and exactly what I wanted, but that added another ~$200 to the overall cost. So the real cost of the Deus was ~$1750 before I was really happy with it. Even then, I have concerns when taking it out in the surf. The control box has popped off of the shaft twice on me (now I have it tethered for safety) and you have to attach a really annoying antenna wire if you think you’ll submerge the cable at all. None of this is insurmountable, but for my money, I would definitely go with the Manticore again.

Oh, and if you don’t want to wait, I ran into someone yesterday who said they were able to get one shipped from Cabela’s immediately. Apparently they had a bunch in stock across their stores. Definitely worth checking.
 
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