Is this a proper permission?

[Tom_in_CA]

... I don't think Joe or the owners care one bit they have other things on their mines........

Agreed ^ ^ The issue going on here, is the same issue when the "do we need to grovel" comes up, when discussing public parks. In psychology it's called "portrayal" or "projection" : We all tend to think that the next person is thinking-like-we-are. Ie.: that they "notice the things we notice". Hence the other / next average passerby is "all fired concerned" and notices the same things we think & see.

It's a knee-jerk psychological reaction. When the reality is : People mostly don't give two hoots nor care less.

 

[Diga]

Dude ! Go back and read the entire premise of this thread !! The fellow is painting a situation where he HAS PERMISSION ! (albeit the renter, or the construction worker, etc....). Hence : NOT A CRIMINAL ACT !

lol What?

YOU need to read the entire premise of the thread.

Saying "but I had permission" from a renter or construction guy is like a shoplifter saying "but the janitor said I could take this TV." It's an explanation, but it's not a legal defense.

 

[Diga]

Agreed ^ ^ The issue going on here, is the same issue when the "do we need to grovel" comes up, when discussing public parks. In psychology it's called "portrayal" : We all tend to think that the next person is thinking-like-we-are. Ie.: that they "notice the things we notice". Hence the other / next average passerby is "all fired concerned" and notices the same things we think & see.

It's a knee-jerk psychological reaction. When the reality is : People mostly don't give two hoots nor care less.

You are so stuck in your long term position about hunting on public party, that you don't seem to realize we're discussing the legalities of hunting on PRIVATE property without permission. In other words, your psychological musings mean nothing to the law.

 

[markinmichigan]

But since you consider md'ing to be evil, harmful, destructive, and stealing, then : I suggest you cease this evil activity, at ANY place you might be considering to do it.

Please tom, don't put your words as my reply. Never once said that. 100% false. Trespassing on private property is illegal. In Michigan and throughout the United States, knowingly entering or remaining on someone else's land without lawful authority or permission is typically classified as a criminal misdemeanor.

So you're saying you would hunt that property i mentioned?

 

[sube]

I hunted over 50 years got the boot maybe 10 times 5 by owners and 5 by law enforcement still not in the PEN must be lucky .
Then again state law states no digging or disturbing the soil vegetation and all artifacts must be return that are 50 years or older . Well you lawbreakers did you turn in all your ring pulls well did you . Why are all you lawbreakers still metal detecting .sube

 

[Tom_in_CA]

lol What?

YOU need to read the entire premise of the thread.

Saying "but I had permission" from a renter or construction guy is like a shoplifter saying "but the janitor said I could take this TV." It's an explanation, but it's not a legal defense.

Let's take that ^ ^ for a test drive : When your friend invites you to their rental house or apartment, to dinner or to watch football, that is (and I quote) : ".... like a shoplifter saying " but the janitor said I could take this TV"

Right ? Don't be bashful Diga. Scream "yes" from the mountain tops. Wear it proudly. And : Go ahead & decline your friend's invitation. Until his landlord also gives you the green light. Because shucks, if you accept your friend's invitation, without that added step, then presto : It's like (and I quote) : shoplifting. Right ?

 

[stetam]

Tom stop the BS analogies

 

[Tom_in_CA]

........ hunting on PRIVATE property without permission. .....

Again, you're not reading this thread's starting premise component : THE PERSON HAS "PERMISSION".

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom stop the BS analogies

And the reason you call it "BS analogies" is because you do, in fact, consider md'ing to be harmful, destructive, evil, etc..... If that starting premise were true, then yes : My analogies would be BS. It all depends on a person's starting premise definitions.

So then : If you consider md'ing to be, of necessity : Harmful, evil, stealing, destruction, etc.... Then yes : My analogies are BS, and : You would be exactly right . But : Says who ? Since when ? Why that starting premise ??

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So you're saying you would hunt that property i mentioned?

Good question ^ ^ And to answer that , let's go back to the first post, of yours, that started this entire premise. Notice what you yourself said (and I quote) : " ....and he said have at it...."

So why are you NOW saying this :

.... Trespassing on private property is illegal. ....

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT TRESPASSING !! By your own admission in post # 1 !

 

[Diga]

Again, you're not reading this thread's starting premise component : THE PERSON HAS "PERMISSION".

I already explained that to you when I said:

Saying "but I had permission" from a renter or construction guy is like a shoplifter saying "but the janitor said I could take this TV." It's an explanation, but it's not a legal defense.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Mark started the thread because he was concerned that it wasn't valid permission, and now he has confirmation that it most certainly is not valid permission.

What part of that are you not understanding?

 

[Lavishlogos]

You guys are funny. These quips are all fictional, I can't imaging doing any of these.

I think it's funny how everyone seems to develop this concept that every yard has treasure and we are the thieves in the night. We are literally picking up garbage and might find a quarter that someone lost years ago. Woop-dee-doo. It's not like it's being mined for mineral rights. Does one really think we destroy the yard in the process?

I was at my buddies house he rents. I was fiddeling with my pop can and my pull tab fell off onto the grass.
I bent down to pick up my litter but to my dismay there where already 3 other pull tabs laying on the ground (and a penny!).
I did not want to be a thief, and didn't know which one was mine, so I let mine stay there. I figure it was better to give to the landlord than it would be to steal his property. Or did I litter? Should I have stole the other 3 and thrown all of them away?

I collect pop cans to turn in for cash. A hobby of mine. My buddy had a can sticking out of the ground by his garbage can. I had him call the landlord to see if I could have it.

It snowed a lot over one of the weekends last year. My buddy was out of town. I don't know his landlord's number so I wasn't able to call to see if I could bring a shovel and dig the snow out of the yard for my buddy. Some of the digging would have been on the grass walkway to the dirt drive and I didn't want to get in trouble if I disturbed anything. When my buddy got back he said it would have been fine if I did that for him, but I really didn't want to take that chance, what authority does he have?

I mow my buddies lawn for him. Little does he know I keep all the grass clipping to use as fertilizer at my house. (He thinks I throw it away) Saves me tons of money per year! Landlord is none the wiser. Landlord doesn't even realize how much I get ahead in life from this.

I go fishing with my buddy. We collected night crawlers from his yard the night before (insert evil laugh here) We done stole them worms and saved 3 bucks a dozen!!

His landlord owns a big field next to the house that my friend mows. I don't know if I can wear cleats on it when the kids practice football. My buddy won't call for "silly" questions anymore. I tried to explain I might rip up a patch of grass and completely destroy his field.

You have a party in the yard of your rental you been at for 5 years. The next day you find a honker of a ring (plated brass) next to the sidewalk so smashed into the dirt someone must have stepped on it when they lost it. You call all your friends and no one lost a ring. So logically you call the landlord in this situation? Do you steal the ring? or do you destroy it by throwing it away?

Wake up to see a $20 blew into and is stuck on the fence? must be the landlords good fortune, because you sure as heck don't own that fence?

When you guys are at sale and find a smoking deal that someone has something way under priced because they have no idea what they have, do you buy it and completely rip them off? Or do you make sure they get their fair share? In every situation?
Asking $5 worth $50
Asking $5 worth $200
Asking $5 could be worth $1,000

If the landlord gave you permission to detect, he laughed and said sure you can keep what you find, and you find a gold ring would you feel like you should return it to the landlord? Gold coin? Silver coin? junk ring? clad half dollar? Pull tab?

 

[Diga]

You guys are funny. These quips are all fictional, I can't imaging doing any of these.

I think it's funny how everyone seems to develop this concept that every yard has treasure and we are the thieves in the night. We are literally picking up garbage and might find a quarter that someone lost years ago. Woop-dee-doo. It's not like it's being mined for mineral rights. Does one really think we destroy the yard in the process?

I was at my buddies house he rents. I was fiddeling with my pop can and my pull tab fell off onto the grass.
I bent down to pick up my litter but to my dismay there where already 3 other pull tabs laying on the ground (and a penny!).
I did not want to be a thief, and didn't know which one was mine, so I let mine stay there. I figure it was better to give to the landlord than it would be to steal his property. Or did I litter? Should I have stole the other 3 and thrown all of them away?

It doesn't matter what you "think" should be theft or not. Ditto for what one "thinks" is destruction of private property.

What matters is what the law states, and that's what this thread is all about.

 

[sube]

You guys are funny. These quips are all fictional, I can't imaging doing any of these.

I think it's funny how everyone seems to develop this concept that every yard has treasure and we are the thieves in the night. We are literally picking up garbage and might find a quarter that someone lost years ago. Woop-dee-doo. It's not like it's being mined for mineral rights. Does one really think we destroy the yard in the process?

I was at my buddies house he rents. I was fiddeling with my pop can and my pull tab fell off onto the grass.
I bent down to pick up my litter but to my dismay there where already 3 other pull tabs laying on the ground (and a penny!).
I did not want to be a thief, and didn't know which one was mine, so I let mine stay there. I figure it was better to give to the landlord than it would be to steal his property. Or did I litter? Should I have stole the other 3 and thrown all of them away?

I collect pop cans to turn in for cash. A hobby of mine. My buddy had a can sticking out of the ground by his garbage can. I had him call the landlord to see if I could have it.

It snowed a lot over one of the weekends last year. My buddy was out of town. I don't know his landlord's number so I wasn't able to call to see if I could bring a shovel and dig the snow out of the yard for my buddy. Some of the digging would have been on the grass walkway to the dirt drive and I didn't want to get in trouble if I disturbed anything. When my buddy got back he said it would have been fine if I did that for him, but I really didn't want to take that chance, what authority does he have?

I mow my buddies lawn for him. Little does he know I keep all the grass clipping to use as fertilizer at my house. (He thinks I throw it away) Saves me tons of money per year! Landlord is none the wiser. Landlord doesn't even realize how much I get ahead in life from this.

I go fishing with my buddy. We collected night crawlers from his yard the night before (insert evil laugh here) We done stole them worms and saved 3 bucks a dozen!!

His landlord owns a big field next to the house that my friend mows. I don't know if I can wear cleats on it when the kids practice football. My buddy won't call for "silly" questions anymore. I tried to explain I might rip up a patch of grass and completely destroy his field.

You have a party in the yard of your rental you been at for 5 years. The next day you find a honker of a ring (plated brass) next to the sidewalk so smashed into the dirt someone must have stepped on it when they lost it. You call all your friends and no one lost a ring. So logically you call the landlord in this situation? Do you steal the ring? or do you destroy it by throwing it away?

Wake up to see a $20 blew into and is stuck on the fence? must be the landlords good fortune, because you sure as heck don't own that fence?

When you guys are at sale and find a smoking deal that someone has something way under priced because they have no idea what they have, do you buy it and completely rip them off? Or do you make sure they get their fair share? In every situation?
Asking $5 worth $50
Asking $5 worth $200
Asking $5 could be worth $1,000

If the landlord gave you permission to detect, he laughed and said sure you can keep what you find, and you find a gold ring would you feel like you should return it to the landlord? Gold coin? Silver coin? junk ring? clad half dollar? Pull tab?

See you in the pen I will be the evil one in the corner everyone stays away from lol . sube

 

[Lavishlogos]

It doesn't matter what you "think" should be theft or not. Ditto for what one "thinks" is destruction of private property.

What matters is what the law states, and that's what this thread is all about.

Sounds good, I will have to revaulate my morels. Guess I should have left them 3 pull tabs and that penny. A thief I am by definition. Done stole them worms too!

 

[sube]

It doesn't matter what you "think" should be theft or not. Ditto for what one "thinks" is destruction of private property.

What matters is what the law states, and that's what this thread is all about.

I hunted over 50 years got the boot maybe 10 times 5 by owners and 5 by law enforcement still not in the PEN must be lucky .
Then again state law states no digging or disturbing the soil vegetation and all artifacts must be return that are 50 years or older . Well you lawbreakers did you turn in all your ring pulls well did you . Why are all you lawbreakers still metal detecting .sube

 

[Dr. Dirt]

Is dropping the soap in the prison shower room considered giving permission for entry?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Mark started the thread because he was concerned that it wasn't valid permission, and now he has confirmation that it most certainly is not valid permission....

Then you agree, that when your friend invites you to his rental house , to watch the football game, that you are trespassing , without valid permission, unless his landlord also gives you that invite/permission. Right ? Don't be inconsistent.

 

[sube]

Is dropping the soap in the prison shower room considered giving permission for entry?

Let me know when you get in for your crimes . sube

 

[Lavishlogos]

I hunted over 50 years got the boot maybe 10 times 5 by owners and 5 by law enforcement still not in the PEN must be lucky .
Then again state law states no digging or disturbing the soil vegetation and all artifacts must be return that are 50 years or older . Well you lawbreakers did you turn in all your ring pulls well did you . Why are all you lawbreakers still metal detecting .sube

I literally just paid my $500 fine to the US federal courts for finding old cans in the woods and instead of leaving them I took them to throw them away. $250 for artifact removal and $250 for disturbing the ground.
I was in a campground at the national forest to which the forest website states is ok to search in unless otherwise marked historical. I just happen to be searching the day an archeologist was at the park, which apparently had logging activity on it. They said it was not marked because they didn't want people to specifically seek it out to loot. My other finds were hotwheels and clad.. They took them all and bagged them in evidence bags.

The forest dept said it wasn't developed enough and that's why we were being fined ($500 each for the three of us). We had to pay for the $3000 in time the archeologists had to come back and spend on the site to report the damages....I am welcomed to come back anytime, just let them know before I do...... I had to be fined because if they didn't I would go out an tell everyone the forest dept is lenient and would just slap you on the wrist....

So if you are looking for coins and find a 50 year old anything, better leave it as is and do not throw it away even if it is garbage.(removal) Thats what I was told.