Here’s Pic of the Newly Released Waterproof Nokta Magnetar 9000 Pulse Induction Detector Being Operated Underwater
- Thread starter tnsharpshooter
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Surf Master
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But it lacks water friendly coils , it has nugget buster coils , the machine sales pitch belongs on a prospector forum , since it was manufactured for nugget hunting
Surf Master
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MMMM , we don't pay attention to White Coat testing on beaches , most here know what works on Salt beaches , we know your rich with all that TN. -Mountain property, and you're not a Beach hunter, also you're a relic hunter like your buddy
, Plain & simple , you can talk this nugget buster machine up all you want , it is not a beach machine , might be water proof , but lacks --Salt water friendly coils , just like the Axiom failed to do , along with , we all told you , we don't buy nugget buster machines , with nugget buster price points , & non water friendly coils , Both Nokta , & Garrett were aware of this , they chose to follow the money,- investing in yet another nugget buster - Good Luck Competing with a ML proven /cornered market . You bring up the AQ also , this machine has flaws , not corrected , OBN made some improvements to his, but FT didn't fix the issues. Several people are waiting here on a new salt beach /waterproof Pi detector to arise, it's been a long time , What I am looking for , 8-10 battery life , waterproof to at least 5 meters , non solid- 8,10,15 interchangeable- coils , guts like the AQ but better -meaning high end parts, deeper penetration , better heat distribution /waterproof box for the head , all carbon fiber adjustable shafts , 5 year warranty , anything leaks, stops working , fails , they fix , or replace with a new machine -if unable to fix,- to the original owner , all under 2k US , until than I picked up 4 whites PI machines to use , because I got tired of waiting for a new friendly Salt Beach , Water machine made only for Salt Beach / Salt Water hunters , No nugget busters ! TNSS happy hunting .
Sand Hunter
Elite Member
For the life of me, I still can't figure out why Garrett bought White's. Maybe it was just to mothball them, get them out of the way. But IMHO, that's very short-sighted and to me, doesn't make a lot of business sense. If I owned Garrett, I'd look at the rights I acquired for all Whites detectors, and would take the waterproof TDI BH, along with some of their other well selling models, have my engineers look over the circuits to see if any improvements or updates could be made, then I'd re-release them back into the hands of all the White's faithful customers, along with all of White's parts so they could fix or replace parts as they choose.MMMM , we don't pay attention to White Coat testing on beaches , most here know what works on Salt beaches , we know your rich with all that TN. -Mountain property, and you're not a Beach hunter, also you're a relic hunter like your buddy
IMHO, that would give Garrett an entirely new profit center and expand their market share. Who cares if a customer decided to buy a Whites that they re-released instead of a Garrett model. They'd still be getting the sale. And just because they mothballed Whites detectors, that doesn't automatically mean that Whites customers would gravitate over to Garrett, they might move over to Minelab, Nokta, XP, or any of the other manufacturers. If Garrett would improve upon and resurrect at least a handful of White's better selling detectors, that would expand their market reach and would give them 2 chances at making a sale, Garrett or White's, rather than depending only on the sales coming from Garrett detectors alone.
If Charles Garrett was still alive, I bet he would be re-releasing some of White's detectors, because he always cared more deeply about his customers than corporate profits. I read that even on his deathbed, Charles was still worried & talking about his customers, wanting to make sure they would be taken good care of.
Price drop on Magnetar.
Sand Hunter
Elite Member
WOW, just saw a post from a guy on another forum who said that Nokta has just lowered the price of the Magnetar 9000, so I just checked to verify and he's right! Here's what he posted:
Nokta officially temporarily lowered the Magnetar 9000 price to $4,999 which includes the same coil bundle as before. This price will be in effect until they can release their lower priced models. Concentric coils and open spoked coils for water use will be available later also.
I was just on the Magnetar 9000 website page 2 or so days ago, and the price they listed then was something like $8,999. But after reading his post, I just went back on the same page and the price of the Magnetar 9000 now shows at $4,999, so quite a substantial drop. They must have made the change today as it was $9K just 2 days ago.
Just wondering, seems nugget buster detectors all seem to use closed, concentric coils, rather than the open coils we use for beach/shallow water hunting. If Nokta is also planning to come out with additional lower priced models, and like he said, open spoked coils for water, I just wonder if one of those additionally planned PI's will be targeted towards beach/shallow water hunters? Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
Nokta officially temporarily lowered the Magnetar 9000 price to $4,999 which includes the same coil bundle as before. This price will be in effect until they can release their lower priced models. Concentric coils and open spoked coils for water use will be available later also.
I was just on the Magnetar 9000 website page 2 or so days ago, and the price they listed then was something like $8,999. But after reading his post, I just went back on the same page and the price of the Magnetar 9000 now shows at $4,999, so quite a substantial drop. They must have made the change today as it was $9K just 2 days ago.
Just wondering, seems nugget buster detectors all seem to use closed, concentric coils, rather than the open coils we use for beach/shallow water hunting. If Nokta is also planning to come out with additional lower priced models, and like he said, open spoked coils for water, I just wonder if one of those additionally planned PI's will be targeted towards beach/shallow water hunters? Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
yatahaze323
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*Temporary price drop
Rudy
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Surf Master
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I remember a Sponsor offering a pre - order on this machine - at $500.00 off , now suddenly - down to 5k , figure that out Sand 
The Lama
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Sand hunter are you aware of the Garrett 24k it is the rebranded Whites vlf gold machine also the Axiom is way better prospecting pi than the Whites but if we could get Joe to put the Atx internals into a Vortex body the Surfmaster might be happy
Wet sand it might work.
Sovereign machines were they used in the water? Yet folks used them on the beach looks like.
Closed coil used on wet salt sand wouldn’t be much of a problem. Actually might be better. Sand won’t get between the spokes.
I hear they are developing a pi more geared towards beach hunting.
Besides how many waterproof pi models being sold right now exactly? Looks like not many.
Those Minelab pi are built for harsh soil too.
They work on wet salt sand.
Seen a gent do a video using one of their models,
On buried items in Australia.
Even seen a gent do a video using minelab pi models at the great salt lake in Utah on buried items.
Salt content there lot higher than most coastal beaches in USA.
And Manticore and Deus 2 run at great salt lake too.
Out of all models both pi and vlf MF tested at great salt lake. Some Pi models had 14” coils on them too,
The winner for depth was …..drum roll … The Xp Deus 2. Deus 2 with 11” DD coil the winner.
Both gents who did the testing /comparisons - very seasoned Minelab Pi model users.
Think about what I said above.
Deus 2 beats the Manticore at Great Salt Lake.
But loses slightly on wet salt sand in NC, SC, Florida and maybe even more places on the shoreline in USA.
Deus 2 has salt Sens setting though unlike Manticore. Is this the reason it wins at great salt lake? IDK
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Sand Hunter
Elite Member
Agreed, doesn't sound like a beach machine to me either. I haven't used a concentric coil since my Fisher 1220X in the late 80's, all my detectors since then have had DD coils. What intrigued me was the price drop will be in effect, until they can release their lower priced models, so more detectors coming? Then, when I saw open spoked coils for water use would also be available, that got me thinking.
Seems the nugget busters I've seen tend to use closed concentric coils, since most nugget hunters tend to hunt goldfields, claims, and mines on dry land dirt. Open spoked waterproof coils are typically used by beach/shallow water machines. So, if they're planning on releasing lower priced models, along with waterproof open spoke coils, does that possibly mean that maybe 1 of the lower priced detectors will be a PI, focused and tuned for beach/shallow saltwater hunting? Of course, there's another possibility, gold nuggets can also be found in streams and rivers.
Lots of people pan for gold at the water's edge, so maybe the open spoked waterproof coil is for hunting nuggets in streams or rivers? Personally, even though the detector is waterproof to 16.4 feet, I can't see a guy hunting for nuggets in 3, 4, or 5 feet of water, unless he either has a long handle scoop, or an air tank or Hookah to allow underwater searching.
Surf Master
Forum Supporter
They missed the boat
Sand , it took a couple years to break out what we called hope for a Beach /Water machine , it didn't happen , case closed , yet just nugget buster's /follow the 
PS TNSS you won't be getting a freebie from Turkey , it's not selling up here , happy hunting
Sand Hunter
Elite Member
Get your reading glasses on Earl and hang on, this might be painful, lol.
Here's what I figure, I could be wrong, but I think I'm on the right track as I've seen this type of marketing technique/tactic used before many times to boost interest in a product right before release. The technique is designed to create a frenzy for the product, get people foaming at the mouth and ready to buy before the product becomes available. IMO, I think that Nokta has been playing the pre-release, psychological build up the hype marketing game, i.e., get everybody talking & worked up, get the buzz going, get everyone in the forums talking & bitching about the unobtanium price of $9K, then right before release, drop the price to $5K. When a company spends weeks or months conditioning everyone to believe they'll need to spend $9K to get the new detector, then right before release, they suddenly slam the price down 55% to $5K, psychology takes over and even though it's still expensive at $5K, it's much less than $9K so our brains will process that large $4K price drop as a "deal" that would be hard to pass up.
We all have a little greedy side in our brain, so for anyone who had been thinking about getting the Magnetar, or who has been on the fence, going back and forth in their minds, trying to decide if they should or can actually spend the money, once the price drops substantially, the little greedy side of their brain takes over and will push some over the edge to buy. After all, if they want the detector, or have been thinking about buying it, but at $9K it's been a struggle for them to decide, having the opportunity to save $4k, might make buying the detector at such a discounted price irresistible. So, for anyone seriously interested in that detector, how can they resist such a great deal to save $4k? That's a HUGE "discount".
Here's the other thing to consider. In marketing, there's a technique called "loss leaders", which is selling a product at a price where the store actually loses money on the sale. But this technique is typically only used on lower cost products, and is only used in brick & mortar, physical stores, where you physically have to go into the store to get the deal. The store is willing to take a loss on the sale of that item, because an item selling for an irresistibly low price will draw many more customers into the store to buy. And once the customer is in the store, the store hopes the customer will purchase other items. But those items won't be on sale, so the profit the store makes on those other items will help offset the loss they took on the loss leader product. It's all about creating a buzz, getting customers excited and getting a larger volume of customers into the store.
But with the Magnetar, we're talking about much higher prices and a drop in price of $4K, that's a LOT of money. I don't know for sure, but at those higher price points, I can't see Nokta taking a loss on the sale of Magnetars. If they sell the Magnetar for $5K, but it costs them $6K or $7K to make (highly unlikely), then they'd lose a grand or two on every sale. No company wants to lose that much to make a sale, and most companies might not be able to survive for long if they happened to sell a lot of those items. So, IMHO, I believe that it costs Nokta less, MUCH less than $5K to make the Magnetar, so even "discounting" the detector by $4K, I'm sure they'll still be making a good profit. Apple has their iPhones made in China, so how much does it cost Apple to make an iPhone that they sell for $1,500 or thereabouts? How about $10, yeah, 10 bucks. In large volumes, companies can get electronic items made in China for unbelievably low prices. And how on earth can Best Buy sell a 65" 4K TV for $299? Does the Magnetar PI have a larger number of components inside the small control box or more complex electronics inside than a 65" 4K TV?
I think that $9K price was a trial balloon, to test the market. If nobody complained and if everyone thought the price was fair, you better believe the price would probably have stayed at $9K. But since there's been a lot of bitching & complaining about the $9K price, sounds to me like they decided to bring the price back to the price they may have originally intended. There's definitely the possibility that they planned to offer the Magnetar for $5K all along and used the $9K price as a red herring to get everyone worked up, so that they could "discount" the detector by $4K, which would appear to be an irresistible "sale". That way, they'll appear to be offering a new high-tech detector at a deeply discounted sale price.
Auto dealers do similar things. They'll advertise "Save $1,000 on any vehicle with trade in". So, I don't have a trade in, so I don't get the $1,000 discount. But the guy who does trade in a car doesn't really get the $1,000 discount either. Sure, they'll give him $1,000 of the price of the new car on paper, but once they determine what they'll offer for his trade in, they'll deduct $1,000 from their offer price to recoup the discount they offered. So, he's really not getting that $1,000 discount and the dealer isn't really "losing" $1,000 on the deal either. They're dressing up & putting lipstick on a pig, but you still wind up with a pig, lol.
So, just my opinion here and I could be wrong. But even if I'm right, these types of techniques are standard marketing techniques used by countless companies all the time. There's nothing illegal and Nokta would have done nothing wrong, it's just a way to build up hype and interest in a product before release, as well as making the customer feel good by thinking they got a great deal, happens every day, all around the globe. Bottom line for me is that I look at that detector and try to figure what's in that detector that would have justified a $9K price. It's a metal detector; we all have detectors and know what makes up a detector.
Detectors have a coil, which is just wire wound a certain amount of turns around a circular form, then fit inside a circular or elliptical plastic container, with a similar shaped plastic top that's glued or fused onto the bottom container. There's a shaft, armrest, handle on shaft, control box on top of the handle, batteries, wires and cables to connect the batteries and coil. Inside, there's probably digital potentiometers attached to the buttons on the front control panel to increase or decrease various parameters to make adjustments. There's a screen to provide visual information. Inside, there's also a PCB loaded with resistors, capacitors, various chips and a microprocessor (think the CPU used inside a computer), and other electronic components.
And due to the digital nature of the detector and desire to save space by making the PCB as small as possible, those components are more than likely surface mount components, which are typically installed onto the printed circuit board and soldered by a machine. It's a much faster and more accurate method, as well as being much less costly than trying to install & solder tiny components that can be difficult to see by hand. So having a machine programmed to install & solder the surface mount components is typically the way companies choose to populate the PCBs for their products. Machines are not only much faster than trying to populate the PCB by hand, but it's also less expensive, as the machine doesn't charge an hourly rate, and can work 24/7 without complaining, lol.
So, bottom line for me, unless the PCB circuit traces are made from pure 24K gold, I can't think of anything inside the Magnetar that other detectors don't have. It's a PI, might have some newer technology or circuit design, but I don't suspect there's anything in the circuit that could be considered groundbreaking, and I can't think of any components inside that PI that would cost a company so much $, they would have to jack the price up by thousands. In all likelihood, there's a chance that they get their PCBs made in China, or Indonesia, or Malaysia. Lots of companies have moved to using offshore companies to manufacture or assemble whatever they need, at extremely lower prices than it would cost to make in the U.S. Electronic manufacturing for the most part, is high-speed, automated, and standardized.
Unless a company is making a product that requires rare and unknown components for the space shuttle, or satellite or something crazy high-tech, they're probably going to use the same/similar type components that any other electronic product or metal detector uses. And if Apple can get an iPhone made in China for $10, granted they buy in insanely huge volumes, but even at much lower volumes, how much would it cost a company to have a PCB made and populated with electronic components in China? $20, $30, $50, $100? It's usually not much and much cheaper than trying to build in the U.S.
IMO, the real cost for a company is all the time and man-hours they've spent with research, development, and testing. the components to build the PI may have only cost a few hundred dollars, if that. The larger cost is the investment they made in R&D and testing. There can be a lot of employee man-hours involved over a long period of time that they pay for, such as employee's salaries, benefits, etc. Paying for the employee's and all the man-hours involved in designing, testing, and coming out with a new product is what I think drives up the cost of the detector, not the cost of the parts used to make the detector.
Sand Hunter
Elite Member
No, wasn't aware. But since you mentioned the Garrett ATX, it was last year when I was thinking about getting a PI and did a post asking what anyone knew about the ATX. I know it looks like a Military mine detector, but as a Vet, to me, it looked pretty cool. Also heard that it's a deep PI, but the problem people had with the detector was the bulk and weight, many said was hard to swing and heavy.
That thread morphed from the ATX to other PI discussions, eventually leading to discussions about White's PI's, specifically the Dual Field and TDI BH. Eventually, I was able to acquire a Dual Field PI that OBN previously owned and modded. It was due to his generosity and going way out of his way to help that allowed me to get the Dual Field he previously owned.
The Lama
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Yeah if it wasn't for the tank factor
Sand you out did yourself on that post buddy!
LongJohnSilver1
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Can you actually buy the AQ anywhere?
Steve
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