Harassed while trying to get permission

[Slowtoo]

I want to post what happened to me yesterday, attempting to ask permission. As a little background, my wife and I are retired and camping in an Rv in a log term park. I fortunate to have permission to detect several old homesites on the property that date back to the 1700’s. However, hunting season is in and detecting these sites is dangerous. Therefore, I’ve been attempting to acquire permissions in the area.
Anyway, last week I was riding the backroads in a rural area and spotted two really old homesteads across the road from each other. I stopped to door knock and attempt to get permission. This was obviously a working cattle ranch. Just as I got out of my truck, a fertilizer truck pulled up and we talked a minute and I found out the owner wasn’t there and didn’t live there. The truck driver said he would give my info to the owner if I would write it down. I gave him my business card and thanked him and went on my way.
Yesterday I was driving this same road, looking for a new permission when I drove by the homesites. The gate was open and I saw several workers moving hay. I stopped in the driveway right by the road and got out to talk to one of the workers. He pointed me in the direction of the owner in a tractor approaching my truck. I started walking towards him and he went berserk, cursing, flinging his arms and threatening me and screaming at me to leave. All this time I’m trying to get into my truck to leave. He’s constantly screaming, berating me, and threatening to beat me up, taunting me to get out of my truck and fight him. The idiot didn’t know I had a nine mm pistol in my hand. I honestly thought I was going to have to show it to be able to leave. I’m 75 years old, disabled and been detecting about 10 years. I dress nice and act professional and have a nice business card. I’ve been door knocking for permissions almost from day one. I’ve been turned down before but mostly I get permission. I’m completely dumbfounded by this guys reaction. I’m just thankful that I was able to leave without a physical altercation. Please, everyone be careful!! You never know what you will encounter. I may never door knock again!!!Please excuse the length.
Ed. Oh, just for the record, I never got to say one word to him. I don’t have a clue what set him off.

 

[stetam]

Having a bad day I guess but bottom line is…..it’s his property. And by the way, having a pistol in your hand is asking for trouble.

 

[rcornell]

Thanks for sharing! Possibly something going on that he didn't want you around to see? That sounds like something that would happen if I stumbled upon a Meth Lab here. Of course, it could be someone having a "Bad Day"... for some people, most of their days are bad ones. Glad all is well with you.

 

[MasonDixonMding]

There’s a—holes ever where you go. You just got lucky and found one. Don’t let that discourage you. There lots of nice people out there. I’ve meet some real cool land owners door knocking. The old saying if you get thorn from the horse you got to get right back on! Go out and get good permission.

 

[Pete e]

Having a bad day I guess but bottom line is…..it’s his property. And by the way, having a pistol in your hand is asking for trouble.

Sorry, but I have to disagree...The guys reaction was completely over the top and he could have easily escalated the confrontation further, possibly to violence. It sounds to me this is exactly the situation people carry for. I am just glad Slowtoo was able to get out of the situation without having to draw the pistol...

 

[LovestheShiny!]

Glad you are ok, and I agree with Pete e, that guy's reaction was completely uncalled for and sounds like he just went beserk! I do a ton of door knocking here in Montana and Idaho, one time I ran into a person like you did... knocked on the door, wife answered, asked respectfully about detecting the front yard and curb, she thought no problem but husband was coming home shortly, let's wait and check with him first. He came home, hopped out of his truck, saw me w/ detector and went crazy. Same thing, wanting to fight me, verbally attacking me, screaming at me to leave the entire neighborhood! Was with a detecting buddy at the time, we just walked away. I should have called the cops as he was assaulting me, and threatening battery.

 

[Digging Prayers]

Maybe some people in life have things they wish to keep buried. They deny it and try to forget. Possibly seeing something that could bring up the past triggered him. Not saying what was on the property was a problem, maybe it was something deep down inside. The symbology of something being uncovered triggered him. Could also just be a bad case of IBS.

I had a guy attack me like that one time while driving my car up to a restaurant curb to pick up my wife. She had went in to get our food and was now back out. I was talking on the phone. He went total batpoo on me. Accusing me of not seeing a kid walking with his parents holding his hand across the parking lot. I saw everything around me, even this nut when he jumped out of his vehicle, charging, yelling and threatening to assault me. I saw him coming and slid my pistol out of my ankle holster and slid it under my leg. My child was in my backseat. My wife was in the parking lot in front of me. I just kept speaking calmly to him and tried to deescalate. I assured him I saw where the child was. I even described the car that they got out of and where they were coming from. I kept speaking calmly to him. I finally looked him dead in the eyes and told him would be wise to back away from my door. He did, but was begging me to get out. I just rolled up the window and went and picked up my wife. The person on the phone heard the whole thing. I had layed the phone down without hanging up so they could hear the the whole exchange. I'm grateful nothing happened.

What's the point? Possibly someone in his family, or someone he cared deeply about was hit by a car by someone talking on a phone.

We never know what triggers people. Your guy's stories sound similar. Could have been him hidding what he was doing, the guy seeing the detector reminded him of something. Who knows what PTSD some people face and what triggers them. Just try to show mercy to people, do your best to deescalate and go on with your life.

Not everybody's damage goods. Go on to you next door

 

[Xxray]

Sorry, but I have to disagree...The guys reaction was completely over the top and he could have easily escalated the confrontation further, possibly to violence. It sounds to me this is exactly the situation people carry for. I am just glad Slowtoo was able to get out of the situation without having to draw the pistol...

Isn't having it in your hand pretty much drawn ?
Yes it is, so it is good that he didn't come to the point where he had to point and shoot. I wasn't there so I don't know, it is possible that seeing a guy brandishing a weapon on his property set him off.

 

[Pete e]

Isn't having it in your hand pretty much drawn ?
Yes it is, so it is good that he didn't come to the point where he had to point and shoot. I wasn't there so I don't know, it is possible that seeing a guy brandishing a weapon on his property set him off.

I probably should have used the term "brandished" rather than "drawn"....Now baring in mind I wasn't there either, but my take was that the firearm remained out of sight from the guy having a rant, and so was not the trigger for his unhinged behaviour...

 

[stetam]

I probably should have used the term "brandished" rather than "drawn"....Now baring in mind I wasn't there either, but my take was that the firearm remained out of sight from the guy having a rant, and so was not the trigger for his unhinged behaviour...

He had it in his hand and never said it was “out of sight”. Don’t pull out a weapon unless you’re gonna use it, not as a scare tactic.

 

[Xxray]

I probably should have used the term "brandished" rather than "drawn"....Now baring in mind I wasn't there either, but my take was that the firearm remained out of sight from the guy having a rant, and so was not the trigger for his unhinged behaviour...

Perhaps.
I think it would be difficult to impossible to have a 9mm in your hand and conceal it, but yes, he flat out said that the guy ranting didn't know he was armed. After rereading the OP I think that perhaps he armed himself when he got back into his truck, and got a grip on the gun in preparation for an escalation - In that scenario, he could have the weapon in hand, on his lap, and the ranter wouldn't know it.
I have had to pull my gun twice in my life, both times I had to shoot, I was in the right and defending my life so no legal complications, glad I had it or I may well not be here as we speak. I also carry a baseball bat in my vehicle, along with at least 1 knife and also pepper spray, to give me options of less than lethal defense if needed ,, But it sounds like the OP may not be up to a scrap with close combat weapons like those.

 

[Pete e]

In the original posts he states the guy did not know he had a 9mm in his hand?

Anyway, I wasn't there so I am not going to speculate further and will leave Slowtoo to elaborate further if he wishes ...

 

[Uptown603]

Maybe he was busy working. You said you have your card and permission in hopes he’d get back to you. You stopped again while he was working and possibly parked where he wanted to be. Maybe you were the 3rd person to stop that seeking some sort of permission . I’m not trying to make an excuse for his behavior.

I also think that not asking permission any longer because you found one unhinged nut vs all the access you’ve gained over a 10 year period. Seems like odds are still in your favor for gaining new spots. Who knows…… maybe you drive the same truck and look like a guy that owes him money? I dunno, but I certainly wouldn’t go back there again. I’d just find new dirt.

 

[markinswpa]

He had it in his hand and never said it was “out of sight”. Don’t pull out a weapon unless you’re gonna use it, not as a scare tactic.

I agree 100 %. Don't pull it unless you're going to use it. Remember threatening someone with a firearm is a crime. Self defense is another thing. It sounds like he was close. I also agree with others saying the guy must have been doing something he didn't want others to see. Glad to hear he was able to get out of there.

 

[bottlecap4u]

Well, I’ve done a ton of permissions, had a nut or two answer the door in my time, I make a quick exit and onto the next site. That said, for me, I’d never carry firearms, in hand or concealed, while door knocking. Keep it in the car if you must carry, if as was written, the owner is abusive, just leave and onto the next permission.

 

[markinmichigan]

PTSD is real and is easily triggered, even through a non threatening visual response by yourself. Or the farmer was a nut bag and this was his reaction to most conflicts. As said above, move on.

Don't unholster your concealed weapon unless you are facing imminent physical danger. The display of the firearm (You said it was in your hand) must be appropriate to the threat faced. Showing a gun in response to a verbal confrontation may not be justified. There must be a clear and present danger to your safety or that of others.

The legal repercussions for brandishing a firearm can be severe. In many states, it is classified as a felony, leading to significant fines and potential imprisonment. Even if classified as a misdemeanor, it can still result in a criminal record, affecting future employment opportunities and gun rights.

Written by someone who has had a concealed permit since required in 2001.

Mark in Michigan

 

[Slowtoo]

Having a bad day I guess but bottom line is…..it’s his property. And by the way, having a pistol in your hand is asking for trouble.

I never showed the gun. This fool was 30 years younger than me and out weighs me by 50 pounds!! He was threatening me with bodily harm. I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Slowtoo]

I didn’t have a weapon until I got in my truck and kept it out of sight. He never saw it. I know how the gun laws work in this state. The whole point was for self defense. I’ve had a gun in that truck for over 10 years and have never had it in my hand until that day. All I wanted was to leave without a physical altercation.

 

[C-COD]

You said you gave your business card to the truck driver earlier. Maybe some wording on the card set him off. With all the raids going on and arresting certain workers,he might not like strangers poking around.I am just guessing but something about you being on his property definitely didn't agree with him.Good luck either other permission, s and .stay safe.

 

[hoser]

Well, given what's going on these days in the world you just have no clue what to expect from people. I don't carry or conceal a weapon. I think we all have had some sort of lunatic confront us at one time or the other. All you can do is hope the property owner is both in a good mood and sound of mind. His reaction to me dictates he has something to hide. Wonder how many bodies he has buried in SHALLOW graves there. SlowToo does your wife go with you when you hunt? It would be a good idea to have her with you when seeking permissions so she could have the phone handy to record just in case a person gets unruly. You would then have video proof as to what went down. JMHO