Getting permission for land owned by the church

[Joker23]

There is a very large field not too far from me, kind of in the middle of nowhere. It's posted "no trespassing", "video surveillance", etc. I looked up the records online, and it's owned by the Catholic church. The problem is, though, that the records I have access to give the main address for their offices, nothing close by. If this was a local church and surrounding property, I would just ask at the rectory.

Has anyone gotten permission in a situation like this, be it a church or any other large organization?

I was debating on just writing a letter and mailing it to the address I have. Wasn't sure if there was a better way to go about it. I thought about driving past now and again and seeing if I can catch any caretakers, groundskeepers, etc. and asking them who I could contact.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Is the ominous signs of "video surveillance" on the building itself ? And : If you are at the church building, do you see the actual cameras ? (Eg.: Up on the eaves ?) Because if so : Those are at the building itself . Not at, or aimed at, a "large field off-yonder".

The Catholic churches, here in CA , began installing video cameras 10 and 20 yrs. ago . Heck, practically ANY public building , and even home "ring cam's" nowadays, etc...., right ?

I docent (history tours) at one of the 21 CA mission churches/museum, and : They installed cameras about a decade or so ago. BUT NOTHING to do with "md'ing". They were ONLY because, sadly : Some people will vandalize and/or steal stuff from churches. Or, like at our particular mission, there was vandalism from protestor-types, who lay all the evils, of the entire western frontier, at the doorstep of the missions (as if we Europeans should never-have-stepped-foot-here).

And all such cameras are focused/aimed at the immediate sidewalks, patios , etc... of the buildings themselves. Not "at some random field off yonder". And the only time the footage is reviewed (I know as an insider) is : If something were amiss the next morning. EVEN THOSE with high tech motion sensors (where you can watch *just* those portions the next morning) are not bothered with. Because every passing stray cat, or moth flying past the lens, triggers motion. So : The only time we review footage, is if something were amiss the next day (vandalism, theft, etc.....)

And same question for the signs : Is the no trespassing ON THE FIELD ? (Like, is the field fenced, and the sign on-that-fence). Or are you referring to a "no trespassing" sign on the church building itself ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

And as far as your idea of "sending a letter" , I'd say : Don't bother . They will treat mail-like-that, the same way you, me, and everyone does : Junk mail that you, me, and all of us promptly toss in the trash.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Or maybe I misunderstood your original post : Is the field JUST A FIELD ? (ie.: no church building ?) . If so, what makes you think this is a good md'ing spot anyhow ? Was something there in-the-old days ?

 

[rcornell]

There is a very large field not too far from me, kind of in the middle of nowhere. It's posted "no trespassing", "video surveillance", etc. I looked up the records online, and it's owned by the Catholic church. The problem is, though, that the records I have access to give the main address for their offices, nothing close by. If this was a local church and surrounding property, I would just ask at the rectory.

Has anyone gotten permission in a situation like this, be it a church or any other large organization?

I was debating on just writing a letter and mailing it to the address I have. Wasn't sure if there was a better way to go about it. I thought about driving past now and again and seeing if I can catch any caretakers, groundskeepers, etc. and asking them who I could contact.

Check the church times and try after service.....?

 

[Joker23]

Or maybe I misunderstood your original post : Is the field JUST A FIELD ? (ie.: no church building ?) . If so, what makes you think this is a good md'ing spot anyhow ? Was something there in-the-old days ?

I should have mentioned in the original post - it was (or maybe still is?) a sports complex. I have driven past it several times over the years and never once saw any events happening. The drive is gated in with signs on the gate. There is one structure, a pavilion.

Some pictures from Google street view:

 

[Joker23]

I used Google Earth to look at old photos of the area.

2026 to 2020, nothing caught on camera.

2019, one picture of a truck and trailer, probably groundskeepers.

2018 to 2008, nothing.

2007 - baseball fields instead of soccer fields.

2006 to 1991, nothing.

1992 and older, farmland.

I know the odds of catching a game during an aerial photo are not necessarily high, but in 30+ years of aerial photos, only one truck at that spot.

With the baseball fields in the past, and the soccer fields now, I assume it's been used at some point.

Edit to add - it's obviously being maintained because it's not overgrown.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Let me just tell you this : If that sort of arrangement (shown in your pix) were anywhere in my area, it would have been hunted long-ago. We just have too many md'rs here, who have left no stone un turned. Anything that is that tame, has been .... uh .... hunted . Perhaps in your area, md'rs are more timid and .... maybe no one's ever hunted it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....... 1992 and older, farmland ....

If it was only farmland (not a park ball-field) prior to 1992, then : Perhaps it too new and not worth it anyhow.

 

[Raith]

I have encountered this in my area too...in general the land owned by the catholic churches typically is owned by the local diocese vs the individual church/parish. The diocese typically buys farm land/vacant land etc for schools and new churches. If there is a church on the land I have instead asked the parish priest or office manager of the parish/church. Going to the diocese has not been fruitful for land owned but vacant.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

........ The diocese typically buys farm land/vacant land etc for .......

Or it was donated to the church. Eg.: By parishioners, decades ago. And maybe it just sits vacant and un-used at present.

 

[Joker23]

I did a little more research. I found out that this is a practice field. That would explain why there is so little parking and no concession stand or restrooms. Since it's used for practice and not actual games, there wouldn't be spectators milling about dropping things.

I think I'm just going to forget about this area. If I happen to see anyone out there when driving by (you can see it from the highway), I may stop and chat, but otherwise I'm gonna look for another area.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[randy]

I've had good luck getting permission on church property, but I always talk to the priest or pastor in person., who can usually be found on the property (at least on Sunday if not all the time) Some sites have produced 40+ silvers so they are not hunted out, but depends on past activity of course.

As for the specific question, the Catholic Church seems a different kettle of fish. We also have lots of these "yonder fields" with no associated church that are aggressively posted. As was pointed out, public records indicate they are "owned" by the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, which would be a hassle for me to visit in person, even if I could get an appointment with the bishop or whomever it would be. We have plenty of other yonder fields around here, so I let it go. (If there was something really hot there in the past, I assure you it has been hunted, either with or without permission, but likely not hunted out).

I doubt they are totally hunted out; I've found tons of good stuff in fields, and every square foot of land has been passed over by someone in the past, as evidenced by the number of buttons and buckles I find, much less shotgun brass that dates to the silver era. Not as good as an old baseball field, but we get seated and bust silver once in a while to make up for it.

One thing that has bothered me about Church owned fields, tho, is how they can treat it as private property in the first place. My understanding is that Church operations and property are taxed more favorably, if at all, at least around here, therefore providing an implicit public subsidy, therefore making it at least quasi public property.

I've never cared enough to pursue this line of thought more formally, just for a handful of old trinkets, but I do feel the Church should allow access to their property by default to all for recreation, as a public good. I will point out that I often see people walking their dogs on these properties. I doubt the bishop cares, BWDIK?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

......., at least around here, therefore providing an implicit public subsidy, therefore making it at least quasi public property. .....

Oh boy, that ^ ^ opens a can of worms. Here's a little story on that regard :

I got into md'ing during my Jr. High days (ie.: age 13-or-so) And the first thing I did, was parade through my neighborhood doing parking strips, for example. My neighborhood was a mid to late 1950s tract house part of town, so I even found some wheaties and silver doing that.

And on one prominent corner, in our neighborhood , was a big Baptist church. And the bus that took us daily to our Jr. High school, would pick us up from that corner. Ie.: where the giant spacial lawns, of the church, reached all the way to the street. So I guess *technically*, the kids lined up, to catch the bus, on the church lawn . Depending on where the road right-of-way, started, and the lawn or dirt ended.

So when I got the detector, I figured that : If 20+ yrs. of kids had waited at-that-spot to get on the school bus, that, shucks, there ought to be some coins there. And sure enough, I got a handful of clad (woohoo). And I kept returning, on more days, to "expand my circles". Till ... eventually, I truly *was* on the church lawn itself. It just seemed like a non-issue.

One day, the church janitor came out. I saw him from a distance, as he froze, by the front door, just looking at me. He then came over and asked what I was doing. After some casual chit-chat, he just shrugged his shoulders and went back inside.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Also : I had gone to parochial Catholic school for part of my grade school years. And that particular school lawn just sort of acted as the 'defacto playground' in the area. Ie.: It wasn't unusual to see someone jogging the track, or whatever. So when I got into md'ing , at age 13, I decided that my old parochial school's field (school built mid 1950s) would be a good place to hit. And sure enough, I got silver coins, wheaties, lots of St. Christophers, etc...., in addition to the usual clad.

One day, one of the nuns came out to see what I was doing. As she drew close, she recognized me as a prior student. And , after some casual chit chat, returned to the buildings. Again a non-issue. Perhaps that was because she recognized me as a prior student from a few years earlier ? I dunno.

 

[atomicbrh]

I would detect that field until somebody with some official authority ran me off. I would not ask anyone for permission because from your research it has been abandoned. The signs look very old. (Edit: It looks like it is by an interstate or major highway. If somebody comes up to run you off. Then, ask them for permission. I would at minimum detect the right of way public property between the gate and the access street just for a few minutes to see if anything is there.)

 

[daddyflea]

It may be my good looks, but I have never been denied by a Church. I have been questioned by a bunch of people who were just curious. I was run out of a Park by the Police Chief but that same Chief let me hunt an old school owned and maintained by the city. He did tell me I could not bring anyone with me.

 

[Dr. Dirt]

As timid as I sometimes can be, I would say that spot screams go for it,