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  #1  
Old 02-28-2010, 12:31 AM
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Default Michigan Law

Hi - I live in Michigan and see there is specific language regarding detecting in our State Parks.

Are there any laws prohibiting detecting in our State Forest that is - say land that is open to firearm/bow hunting?

I can't seem to find them in our very confusing State web site.

Thanks in advance - Mark
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mwbuther View Post
Hi - I live in Michigan and see there is specific language regarding detecting in our State Parks.

Are there any laws prohibiting detecting in our State Forest that is - say land that is open to firearm/bow hunting?

I can't seem to find them in our very confusing State web site.

Thanks in advance - Mark
I just got my PERMIT from the New York Parks and Recreation, and If I wasn't confused before I am now.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:55 AM
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It really is unnecessary to be this confusing - almost half maybe over half of our state parks are closed - most have a partial ban too. There seems to be no mention that I can find to the land the state owns open to hunting. Maybe that is a good thing I guess.

I used to work for the Sheriff's office and can't remember having one imate there for illegal metal detecting - maybe i'll be the first - ha.

I am checking with some of my friends that are still working there and with our local DNR officer as well.

I'll report back soon unless someone here knows or has had an experience with the law so to speak

Mark
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:37 AM
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I live in Michigan. This i show I understand things. All federal land in Michigan is off limits, all the parks and the forest's. Most state land is ok to detect on, if you look on the Michigan.org site, there is a list of state land that is off limits. Hope this helps out a little.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2010, 10:46 AM
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revised...see next post.
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Old 02-28-2010, 02:51 PM
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I live in Michigan. This i show I understand things. All federal land in Michigan is off limits, all the parks and the forest's. Most state land is ok to detect on, if you look on the Michigan.org site, there is a list of state land that is off limits. Hope this helps out a little.
This is not what's I've been told but I sure hope you're right. I'll look into it.
Thanks
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:54 PM
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Default State Park info

Here is a link I found.


http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...7922--,00.html
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2010, 08:11 PM
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Interesting - they only list the state parks and make no mention of other State lands.

My understanding is we can (detect) until told we can't not - can't until told we can if that makes sense.

I am going to get to the bottom of this tomorrow and make a few calls. There has to be a definitive answer somewhere on Michigan's book. I have a couple of friends that work in the legislature and I will check with them and see what we can come up with.

If all we have to worry about is 100 year old artifacts that should be fairly easy to abide with. Unless a coin over 100 years old pops up - oh nooooo - ha!

Thanks to everyone for all of your research - it will be interesting to see of we can close this case. Anyone here a lawyer - that may help too.
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Old 02-28-2010, 08:15 PM
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I almost got caught MD'ing some federal land, it's an old sledding hill from the 30's and 40's anyways, he said I could MD there but just couldn't dig or take anything if it was more than 50 years old. He said that state land we could with the bit about showing someone things that were taken.
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:33 AM
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Well...after several calls and transfers later - I ended up with a geologist for the states forest management division. He says that with everyone that he check with (and he called me back twice) says there is no law that says you can't but more importantly not one that says you can so you can't metal detect on state land open to hunting.

So here we sit with no law saying we can't but no law saying we can either so can't wins. That just does not seem right to me.

He pointed to a lack of any administrative order allowing the activity on land owned by the state. He even said that they are working on an administrative order to allow the collecting of rocks from the beach which I might add he says is currently not allowed and if a park ranger wanted to be a dink about things could write you a ticket. How about that..

There has got to be an answer for this...anyone else have any ideas.

Frustrated - Mark
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2010, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mwbuther View Post
Well...after several calls and transfers later - I ended up with a geologist for the states forest management division. He says that with everyone that he check with (and he called me back twice) says there is no law that says you can't but more importantly not one that says you can so you can't metal detect on state land open to hunting.

So here we sit with no law saying we can't but no law saying we can either so can't wins. That just does not seem right to me.

He pointed to a lack of any administrative order allowing the activity on land owned by the state. He even said that they are working on an administrative order to allow the collecting of rocks from the beach which I might add he says is currently not allowed and if a park ranger wanted to be a dink about things could write you a ticket. How about that..

There has got to be an answer for this...anyone else have any ideas.

Frustrated - Mark
The way I understand it, there HAS to be a law in order to prevent you from legally doing something. There is no case where it is as simple as something being off-limits unless otherwise stated.

I've read before(but can't find to link to) a law, or maybe it was a judge's ruling, that basically dealt with the fact that if a law is not commonly known, or easily accessible, it can't be enforced.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:20 PM
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The way I understand it, there HAS to be a law in order to prevent you from legally doing something. There is no case where it is as simple as something being off-limits unless otherwise stated.

I've read before(but can't find to link to) a law, or maybe it was a judge's ruling, that basically dealt with the fact that if a law is not commonly known, or easily accessible, it can't be enforced.
Well that would seem to fit this very well - even the nice folks at the DNR can't find it. This guy was very nice and also interested in detecting and we spoke for a while. He called several individuals within the DNR and called me twice to report back so it wasn't for lack of effort on his part.

I have yet to ask my conversation friend what his take on it is since he works in the field I would enforcing these types of non-existent rules??

I will keep looking - there has to be something out there - then again, maybe not. He did say they are working on gold prospecting guidelines in streams and rivers too - humm.

I'll keep everyone posted as I quietly learn more. Can't wait for the snow to melt - 40 degrees by the weekend yea!!

Mark
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2010, 06:05 PM
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I dropped the key to my shed here someplace and was hoping I could find it with this here metal detector..... LOL

I wonder if they would dispose of the trash and pull tabs if we handed them to them?

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  #14  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:49 PM
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I dropped the key to my shed here someplace and was hoping I could find it with this here metal detector..... LOL

I wonder if they would dispose of the trash and pull tabs if we handed them to them?
Tooo funny.....see you are getting an Omega - waiting for NWI to tell me mine is in the Big Brown Truck.

I swear I'll take it out in the snow - grab a hammer, chisel and blow torch (my yard of course) and give it a try.

Spring is coming I can feel it.

mark
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2010, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mwbuther View Post
Well...after several calls and transfers later - I ended up with a geologist for the states forest management division. He says that with everyone that he check with (and he called me back twice) says there is no law that says you can't but more importantly not one that says you can so you can't metal detect on state land open to hunting.

So here we sit with no law saying we can't but no law saying we can either so can't wins. That just does not seem right to me.

He pointed to a lack of any administrative order allowing the activity on land owned by the state. He even said that they are working on an administrative order to allow the collecting of rocks from the beach which I might add he says is currently not allowed and if a park ranger wanted to be a dink about things could write you a ticket. How about that..

There has got to be an answer for this...anyone else have any ideas.

Frustrated - Mark
Okay, now this is more what I heard. My son is in the MSP (Michigan State Police) and knows many COs (Conservation or DNR Officers).

I was told of three arrests in the Grayling Michigan area back a few years ago. Their great crimes were: 1. attempting to remove a rock from state land 2. parking on a road into state land thereby blocking it 3. removing a piece of sod from state land. These where separate cases.

I was told the man who removed the sod was fined and had to put the sod back. The same was true of the couple who took the rock.

By the way, fines with the DNR are mega expensive. Long gone are the days of cheap $50-$100 fines. But probably the fine would be the easiest part.

I posted this once but then removed it. Back a couple years ago there was an article in our area local news paper (comes out once a week) telling about the DNR looking for metal detectorists who had taken relics from a Ghost Town site near Traverse City Michigan (open field with nothing above ground as I recall). They are in fact still looking for leads in that case. Whomever did it had better not let it out--ever.

Lots of people hunt on state owned lands anyway but they had better hope the wrong CO doesn't catch them at it. Because in Michigan digging relics on state owned lands is stealing from the state. Maybe not all COs would arrest THers but there are many who will.

Well the above is what I was told several years ago. Was I informed wrong? If I was then how come the article in the paper?

Well, as for me, you can count me out. It's private land or nothing.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:48 PM
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The answer you got from the geologist sounds very much like a buearocrat answer, say no unless there is some rule that specifically says yes. They want to play it safe so that they don't get in trouble. I'm not saying the geologist is at fault, it is probably the people he talked to. The next step would be to find something in the law that says if there is no rule on the subject it is illegal. I doubt it exists.

I suspect that if you did get in trouble that you could get out of it. It might take a good lawyer and the money to hire him, but if there are no rules saying you can't do it and they can't prove you took any relics, it wouldn't hold up in court.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2010, 10:04 PM
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I live in Michigan. This i show I understand things. All federal land in Michigan is off limits, all the parks and the forest's.
I don't think that is true. National Parks are off limits, but National Forests shouldn't be. National Forest land is administered by the USDA, not the state. Here is their statement on the subject:
http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/For%20W...%20Forests.pdf

The only thing they are really concerned about is archaeological sites. The gist of that document is that you can detect unless rules specifically forbid it (and they mention that signs to that effect should be posted), and if you find relics you are supposed to leave them where they are, stop detecting, and inform them.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2010, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Michigan Badger View Post
Okay, now this is more what I heard. My son is in the MSP (Michigan State Police) and knows many COs (Conservation or DNR Officers).

I was told of three arrests in the Grayling Michigan area back a few years ago. Their great crimes were: 1. attempting to remove a rock from state land 2. parking on a road into state land thereby blocking it 3. removing a piece of sod from state land. These where separate cases.

I was told the man who removed the sod was fined and had to put the sod back. The same was true of the couple who took the rock.

By the way, fines with the DNR are mega expensive. Long gone are the days of cheap $50-$100 fines. But probably the fine would be the easiest part.

I posted this once but then removed it. Back a couple years ago there was an article in our area local news paper (comes out once a week) telling about the DNR looking for metal detectorists who had taken relics from a Ghost Town site near Traverse City Michigan (open field with nothing above ground as I recall). They are in fact still looking for leads in that case. Whomever did it had better not let it out--ever.

Lots of people hunt on state owned lands anyway but they had better hope the wrong CO doesn't catch them at it. Because in Michigan digging relics on state owned lands is stealing from the state. Maybe not all COs would arrest THers but there are many who will.

Well the above is what I was told several years ago. Was I informed wrong? If I was then how come the article in the paper?

Well, as for me, you can count me out. It's private land or nothing.
If you could, ask him to aks the Co's about coin hunting in parking lots-trails and the like. There has got to be more to this that meets the eye. Relic hunting is one thing - taking coins is another. I won't be taking a rock, sod or parking to block a road which sounds like stupid got what stupid deserved - a ticket - ha!!

Tell your son to be safe and thanks for the help.

Mark
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  #19  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:31 PM
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Anything new on this, I want to hunt the pigeon forest. There are plenty of little lakes with small beaches and campgrounds there.
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  #20  
Old 10-13-2012, 05:17 PM
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Anything new on this, I want to hunt the pigeon forest. There are plenty of little lakes with small beaches and campgrounds there.
You have to ignore the uninformed gibberish that pops up when ever this subject is discussed and follow the facts.

On federal land in MI you are hunting coins and jewelry, in state parks that are open to detecting many have areas that are off limits and the website provides clear shaded maps for the open areas. Grand Haven state park = wide open.

Ludington state park the entire beach is open south of the main beach house. Newaygo state park closed, etc. It's not that hard to hunt legally here.

I buy year passes to several county park systems around where I live and every one is open to detecting, you just inform a park person on the way in.

Links to park rules in MI.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/hmnf...rocks-minerals

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7...7922--,00.html

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