Friendly Metal Detecting Forums   Deteknix
List all sponsors

Go Back   Friendly Metal Detecting Forums > Metal Detecting > Coinshooters and Relic Hunters

Reply
  
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-20-2017, 09:14 AM
TrpnBils's Avatar
TrpnBils TrpnBils is offline
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 158
Default 1700s counterfeit, old American, and double Swiss coins

I'm on some kind of token streak this year. I'm up to 35 or so, mostly from orchards and canneries in the county. Luckily I found some coins to go with the 15 orchard tokens I dug on Monday. At the same site I pulled a 1900 V nickel, 14 wheats, and 50 Centimes and 1/2 Franc coins (Swiss). The Swiss coins came in super low at about 12-06 on the CTX (foil range, about half as high as a nickel would be. Also found both in the same hole - always recheck! I put my plug back before I checked again so I would have missed it had I just moved on!

The first find of the day was also the oldest... a 1775 counterfeit King George III halfpenny. The obverse of this is basically obliterated, but the reverse isn't terrible. Two New Jersey coppers were pulled off of this site along with a couple of more modern silvers last year but there is a huge gap of about 100 years that we haven't found anything from yet! Lots of land to cover, so we're still hopeful!
Attached Images
    
Reply With Quote


  #2  
Old 04-20-2017, 12:06 PM
SueK's Avatar
SueK SueK is offline
Supporter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,184
Default

Really cool finds. How did you know the King George was counterfeit?

__________________
SueK
XP Deus

Reply With Quote


  #3  
Old 04-20-2017, 12:30 PM
N2990's Avatar
N2990 N2990 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northwest South Central GA
Posts: 572
Default

Awesome! How old do you think the counterfeit is?

__________________
Garrett Ace250
2017: 0 Silver , 0 Gold , Oldest Coin 1928 Wheat
2016: 3 Silver , 0 Gold , Oldest Coin 1919 Wheat

Reply With Quote


  #4  
Old 04-20-2017, 02:41 PM
claddy claddy is offline
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 245
Default

[QUOTE=TrpnBils;2765320]I'm on some kind of token streak this year. I'm up to 35 or so, mostly from orchards and canneries in the county. Luckily I found some coins to go with the 15 orchard tokens I dug on Monday. At the same site I pulled a 1900 V nickel, 14 wheats, and 50 Centimes and 1/2 Franc coins (Swiss). The Swiss coins came in super low at about 12-06 on the CTX (foil range, about half as high as a nickel would be. Also found both in the same hole - always recheck! I put my plug back before I checked again so I would have missed it had I just moved on!

The first find of the day was also the oldest... a 1775 counterfeit King George III halfpenny. The obverse of this is basically obliterated, but the reverse isn't terrible. Two New Jersey coppers were pulled off of this site along with a coupof more modern silvers last year but there is a huge gap of about 100 years that we haven't found anything from yet! Lots of land to cover, so we're still hopeful.
I found one three months ago what year were the counterfeit ones made?
Reply With Quote


  #5  
Old 04-20-2017, 03:17 PM
TrpnBils's Avatar
TrpnBils TrpnBils is offline
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 158
Default

Originally Posted by SueK View post
Really cool finds. How did you know the King George was counterfeit?
Originally Posted by N2990 View post
Awesome! How old do you think the counterfeit is?
[QUOTE=claddy;2765451]
Originally Posted by TrpnBils View post
I'm on some kind of token streak this year. I'm up to 35 or so, mostly from orchards and canneries in the county. Luckily I found some coins to go with the 15 orchard tokens I dug on Monday. At the same site I pulled a 1900 V nickel, 14 wheats, and 50 Centimes and 1/2 Franc coins (Swiss). The Swiss coins came in super low at about 12-06 on the CTX (foil range, about half as high as a nickel would be. Also found both in the same hole - always recheck! I put my plug back before I checked again so I would have missed it had I just moved on!

The first find of the day was also the oldest... a 1775 counterfeit King George III halfpenny. The obverse of this is basically obliterated, but the reverse isn't terrible. Two New Jersey coppers were pulled off of this site along with a coupof more modern silvers last year but there is a huge gap of about 100 years that we haven't found anything from yet! Lots of land to cover, so we're still hopeful.
I found one three months ago what year were the counterfeit ones made?
There was a major problem of counterfeiting this and other similar types of coins for years around this time and it's considered likely that there were more counterfeits in circulation than genuine. One resource I found said that out of 567 cataloged varieties of this denomination dated between 1770 and 1775, about 515 of them were known to be counterfeit (and of course there would have been many of each of those varieties made and circulated). In the case of this particular coin, it weighs less (counterfeiters used different compositions of metal or just plain less copper to keep costs down), is off-set to the left as you can see in the picture (the 1 in 1775 is almost off the coin, as are the BRI visible in BRITTANIA), the obverse and reverse are angled from each other (vertically flipping the coin the way it sits in my hand there leaves the other side at about a 30 degree angle when it should be perfectly upright), and it came in lower on my detector than it should have which would lend more evidence to it being of a different composition).

1770-1775 seem to be the most talked about years for counterfeiting the KGIIIs, but it definitely wasn't the only time period that this was a problem. The original counterfeiting laws went into effect over there in the 1720s I think because it was becoming an issue. I don't know that a counterfeit 1775 like this would have been made in 1775 necessarily, but it would be close. It's not a modern day reproduction or anything - this would have been in circulation and used as actual coinage back then.
Reply With Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
  #6  
Old 04-20-2017, 04:01 PM
cellrdwellr's Avatar
cellrdwellr cellrdwellr is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Worcester County, MA
Posts: 8,146
Default

Great finds congrats!

__________________
☆ML Etrac 2017☆
*W-445~IH-51~2CP-5~LC-8~HC-2*1723 Hibernia*
•Silva-94~Ster-26~Halfs-4•
☆2-Shield~14-V's~15-Buff☆

Reply With Quote


  #7  
Old 04-20-2017, 05:02 PM
IDXMonster IDXMonster is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Glarus
Posts: 1,826
Default

What in the name of green grapes is going on over there??
Would you find something normal please?

__________________
Digging relentlessly since 2010...

Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
  #8  
Old 04-20-2017, 05:07 PM
SueK's Avatar
SueK SueK is offline
Supporter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,184
Default

[QUOTE=TrpnBils;2765458]
Originally Posted by claddy View post

There was a major problem of counterfeiting this and other similar types of coins for years around this time and it's considered likely that there were more counterfeits in circulation than genuine. One resource I found said that out of 567 cataloged varieties of this denomination dated between 1770 and 1775, about 515 of them were known to be counterfeit (and of course there would have been many of each of those varieties made and circulated). In the case of this particular coin, it weighs less (counterfeiters used different compositions of metal or just plain less copper to keep costs down), is off-set to the left as you can see in the picture (the 1 in 1775 is almost off the coin, as are the BRI visible in BRITTANIA), the obverse and reverse are angled from each other (vertically flipping the coin the way it sits in my hand there leaves the other side at about a 30 degree angle when it should be perfectly upright), and it came in lower on my detector than it should have which would lend more evidence to it being of a different composition).

1770-1775 seem to be the most talked about years for counterfeiting the KGIIIs, but it definitely wasn't the only time period that this was a problem. The original counterfeiting laws went into effect over there in the 1720s I think because it was becoming an issue. I don't know that a counterfeit 1775 like this would have been made in 1775 necessarily, but it would be close. It's not a modern day reproduction or anything - this would have been in circulation and used as actual coinage back then.
Great information...thanks for taking the time to explain. Wonderful find!

__________________
SueK
XP Deus

Reply With Quote


  #9  
Old 04-20-2017, 05:39 PM
METALMANIAC-NY's Avatar
METALMANIAC-NY METALMANIAC-NY is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: LOWER HUDSON VALLEY, NY
Posts: 1,923
Default

Really quality finds right there! Sounds like an interesting spot.

__________________
XP DEUS, AT PRO Oldest Coin- 1697 William III Half Penny, 1719 KGI 1730 KGII, 1751 Fernando VI One Reale. 1802 Draped Bust LC,

Reply With Quote


  #10  
Old 04-21-2017, 10:14 AM
SKMKSMetalHead's Avatar
SKMKSMetalHead SKMKSMetalHead is offline
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Salina, Kansas
Posts: 343
Default

Sweet finds would love to find any of your finds! Happy Hunting!


MetalHead

__________________
Whites VX3,Tesoro Mojave,Lesche hand Digger, sampson 31 t handle serrated,Garrett ProPointer(waterproof)"love it"- 2017 Clad($ 46.79) Silver 5 Sterling 2 wheat 33 injun 1 V-nickle 1 tokens 9 MetalHead since 11/13/14

Reply With Quote


  #11  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:17 AM
Doug's Avatar
Doug Doug is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: England
Posts: 2,875
Default

The George coin looks normal to me, modern farming methods (chemicals) and in some case low grade metals in the coins means they soon deteriorate.

It is just possible the smoothness of the head side was deliberate and was done in times gone by.

These 'bad' coins are all from this week and are the results of the wide spread use of modern day chemicals.

I seen the local farmer out spraying his crops with liquid nitrogen today this is the first summer he will have used this method.

"The use of liquid nitrogen fertiliser is soaring in the UK thanks to its superior performance and competitive cost."

...Doug.

__________________
XP Deus Lite 9" & 11" coil.

Reply With Quote


Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.