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  #1  
Old 12-25-2008, 08:35 PM
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Default Metal Detecting Banned

Well People,

Looks like a friend I md with email me yesterday about them changing the law here in Kentucky. Looks like they banned it right after Thanksgiving in all 122 city and local parks. They now classify any digging as an archaeological dig and any object 2008 and older as an archaeological find and you need a permit to dig, which they won't grant. Here's the email I received from my friend Ed Blackwell:
The week before Thanksgiving The Metro Parks Dept.Louisville, Ky. stopped all metal detecting in all 122 city and county parks under the guise of the Antiquities Statute Act of Kentucky. They are saying we are using the Detector to do an Archaeological dig with the intent of digging artifacts and now we are to try and get a permit from the State Archaeologist of Kentucky. They have stated that artifacts are anything that is found with a metal detector and start at the age of 2008 and go down. We are in litigations with the city officials but so far we are not allowed to go to any parks. The situation is very serious as our hobby is in trouble. All the support we can get is appreciated. We have informed the FMDAC and State Representatives and Alderman to help but will be after the first of the year before we hear anything. They are using the KRS 164.705 as their right to keep us out and calling Metal Detecting an Archaeological dig thus requiring a dig permit to Excavate the the park. As you know we cannot get one.

There are no laws against metal detecting in the city parks that are not restricted as a Historical site. With that said, it was one person who decide to stop us and it did. Please be aware that it can happen in your city easily unless you stop it by legislation to allow your hobby to go on. I received emails from all over America that this is happening. If you can help our hobby to be secure please write and suggest how it is to be done. Thank you, Eddie Black

P.S. We have been threatened with Police arrest if we try to return to the parks to hunt. We also have hunted these same parks for about 30 years with no problem.

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  #2  
Old 12-25-2008, 08:54 PM
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Looks like the work of Tomb raiding archeologist. Suckers need to be hung!

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Old 12-25-2008, 09:00 PM
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Wow, any other KY diggers hear about this? But as it would seem, private property with permission is still a green light.

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Old 12-25-2008, 09:03 PM
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You mentioned that one person made this happen. Start with trying to get that person voted out of office, replaced with someone that is friendly to our hobby. Get a petition started to reverse the law listing the good things we do and add the Metal Detecting CODE OF ETHICS. Get state MD clubs involved in the petition and working toward ousting the individual. A civil suit might be next. That's a start, but it will take a dedicated effort by those affected.

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Old 12-25-2008, 09:10 PM
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Here's two links of interest regarding this... apparently not new?

Link 1

Link 2

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  #6  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:10 PM
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No not tomb raiders. What actually happened was my friend Ed was detecting at one of the parks, I forget which. Was Seneca park I think. He was approached by someone told him he couldn't be digging in the park. Ed informed him that there was no law against it and that he wasn't being destructive and was filling all his hole and picking up his trash. He then informed him he was the head of metro parks Western Division and that he couldn't metal detector or dig there. He left and a week or two later he was at another park like Iroquois park and was again approached by the guy who told him, "I thought I told you not to metal detector or dig in the parks." Again Ed didn't confront the guy and left. Ed asked around about the guy and his friend told him that he knew of him and that he was an ex cop and a real jerk and the best thing to do was to say o.k. and walk away which he did. He was told not to push it with him because he had the power and authority to ban metal detecting. I just submitted an application to Mayor Jerry Abramson to sit on the metro board of parks and will be submitting my resume tomorrow via the internet. I sent Ed a link as well to send to his metal detecting club so we can have some sort of representation on the board. I will be contacting Glen Stuckel who is on the board of aldermen in metro Louisville and who I have met before and see if we can get this thing turned around. This same thing has already happened in Indiana several years ago. I am just fuming mad right now.

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  #7  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:13 PM
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How does he have power just because he is an ex-cop?

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Old 12-25-2008, 09:14 PM
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Man that stinks! First I heard of a law in the state against MDing besides state parks. I thought for anything to be considered an antique it had to be years old or something like that. I hope you all can get it reveresed up there.

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  #9  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:15 PM
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Shecthum8:

Thanks for the link. I thought this was new. I read it, printed it and forward it to my dad so he can send it to his friend Donald in Georgia who metal detects and relic hunts so he can stop this foolishness.

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  #10  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:15 PM
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Go to a councel meeting and see what is going on and find out about the ex-cop

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  #11  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:20 PM
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Sounds as if you have a good plan of action started. Is this "individual" that stopped MDing appointed or elected? If he/she is appointed, as a group, appeal to the elected official that appointed him/her and don't be shy about letting that person know that by being an elected official they can be replaced by the voters. Especially voters that are organized against him/her. Be polite, but firm in your approach.

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  #12  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:23 PM
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Of course, any municipality can prohibit metal detecting in parks if it so chooses.

But using the Kentucky Antiquities Act as a basis is nothing short of a load.

Here is the text of that act, found at this link:

Quote:
KENTUCKY ANTIQUITIES ACT
(KRS 164.705 - KRS 164.735; KRS 164.990)

This is known as the Kentucky Antiquities Act, which was created in 1962. It makes it public policy to preserve archaeological sites and objects of antiquity and to limit archaeological work (exploration, excavation, and collection) to qualified persons and institutions. It prohibits the willful damage or destruction of archaeological sites on lands owned or leased by the state, state agencies, counties, or municipalities, and requires a permit from the University of Kentucky’s Department of Anthropology to explore or excavate archaeological sites on these lands. It requires anyone who discovers a site to report it to the Department. It is a felony to violate the sections of the Kentucky Antiquities Act prohibiting the willful destruction of archaeological sites and requiring permits to excavate.


164.705 Declaration of policy.

It is hereby declared to be the public policy of the Commonwealth to preserve archaeological sites and objects of antiquity for the public benefit and to limit exploration, excavation and collection of such matters to qualified persons and educational institutions possessing the requisite skills and purpose to add to the general store of knowledge concerning history, archaeology and anthropology.

History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 1.


164.710 Definitions for KRS 164.705 to 164.735.

As used in KRS 164.705 to 164.735, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) "Archaeological site" means any place where articles of value in the scientific study of historic or prehistoric human life and activities may be found, such as mounds, earthworks, forts, mines, burial grounds, graves and village or camp sites of Indians or any aboriginal race or pioneers.

(2) "Object of antiquity" means a ruin, monument, relic, bone deposit, artifact or any product of human workmanship of Indians or any aboriginal race or pioneers. "Department" means the Department of Anthropology of the University of Kentucky.

History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 2.


164.715 Prohibition.

No person shall willfully injure, destroy or deface any archaeological site or object of antiquity situated on lands owned or leased by the Commonwealth or any state agency or any political subdivision or municipal corporation of the Commonwealth.

History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 3.


164.720 Permit required to excavate.

(1) No person shall explore, excavate, appropriate or remove from land owned or leased by the Commonwealth or any state agency or any political subdivision or municipal corporation of the Commonwealth, any archaeological site or object of antiquity without first obtaining a permit from the Department of Anthropology upon the recommendation of the agency owning or having control of the land upon which the same is situated.

(2) If exploration or excavation of archaeological sites and the finding and gathering of objects of antiquity is undertaken for the benefit of reputable museums, universities, colleges or other recognized scientific or educational institutions with a view to promoting the knowledge of archaeology or anthropology, permits shall be regularly granted.

(3) Each permit issued by the department under this section shall accurately describe the location and sites of the ruins or deposits where the exploration or excavation is to be conducted and shall authorize such actions only at such location. The permit shall be upon such conditions as the department shall deem advisable for maximum effective exploration with a minimum of injury to the surrounding terrain. Each permit shall terminate upon the following thirty-first day of December, subject to an annual renewal on or before the following January 15. However, any permit may be revoked by the department at any time upon finding that explorations or excavations authorized by the permit are not being conducted lawfully or properly in accordance with its terms.

History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 4.


164.725 Authority to mark locations.

The department may designate archaeological sites and objects of antiquity and cause to be posted at the locations thereof appropriate signs or markers.

History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 5.


164.730 Report discovery.

Any person who discovers an archaeological site or object of antiquity in the course of construction work or otherwise shall report such discovery to the department.

History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 6.


164.735 Authority to contract with private owner.

The department may enter into contracts or cooperative agreements with private landowners relating to the preservation and proper exploration of any archaeological site or object of antiquity situated on such private land. The department may acquire, with any funds available to it for such purpose, title to any real estate upon which is located an archaeological site or object of antiquity which the department determines it is important to be preserved.

History: Created 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 7.


164.990 Penalties.

(1) Any person who violates the provisions of KRS 164.715 or subsection (1) of KRS 164.720 is guilty of a Class D felony, and in addition thereto shall forfeit to the state all equipment used in committing the offense for which such person is convicted.

(2) Any person who violates the provisions of KRS 164.980 shall be guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.

(3) Any person who violates KRS 164.377 shall be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

(4) Any person who knowingly violates the provisions of KRS 164.376, or who knowingly nduces another, directly or indirectly, to violate the provisions of KRS 164.376, shall be fined not less than five hundred dollars ($500), nor more than one thousand five hundred dollars ($1,500).

Effective: July 14, 2000

History: Amended 2000 Ky. Acts ch. 191, sec. 2, effective July 14, 2000. – Amended 1992 Ky. Acts ch. 463, sec. 19, effective July 14, 1992. -- Amended 1988 Ky. Acts ch. 120, sec. 1, effective March 30, 1988; and ch. 148, sec. 2, effective July 15, 1988. -- Amended 1974 Ky. Acts ch. 406, sec. 306, effective January 1, 1975. -- Amended 1972 Ky. Acts ch. 367, sec. 7(2). -- Amended 1962 Ky. Acts ch. 278, sec. 8. -- Created 1960 Ky. Acts ch. 92, sec. 6.
The act, obviously, was written to preserve Native American sites and relics. The whole "older than 2008" thing is a bunch of hooey. Sounds like someone has way too much time on their hands. (They should get a cool hobby - something like Metal Detecting, huh?)

All you have to do is get active in the politics of the thing. If you need us to take action, just let us know what to do.

Leave it to Louisville ...

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  #13  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:24 PM
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I'm on the phone now with Ed Brightwell. He said he md club buddy Ed Black got stopped twice at Shawnee Park by Brian Haag who is the western division of parks. The 2nd time he caught Ed Black and his friend they had them stop metal detecting and ran them out of the park it'self.

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  #14  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:32 PM
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I might add that it would behoove MD manufactures and retailers to get involved also. This is not just our hobby; it's their livelihood that's being threatened. Contacting them about this can't hurt the effort.

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Old 12-25-2008, 09:50 PM
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This might be a good time to contact our local, state and federal governments to explain to them that we aren't out to damage, loot or steal anything but more importantly they are hurting U.S. companies by banning our hobby.

Not to mention that a lot of states are currently hurting for money and I don't know about you guys but I'd be willing to pony up some money for a hunting permit that would open up national and state forests.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:59 PM
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I sent the email to Dwight Gabehart who owns American Outdoor Products and is a Whites Electronics Distributor here in Louisville off Taylorsville Road and sent him the email also. I checked the metro parks website and looks like there is nothing in writing about this. Just this one guy Brian Haag who is head of the Western Division of Parks is the one who is pushing this. He is using the Antiquities statute ..removal of natural resources. Chapter 42.03 under restrictions and prohibited activities and under recreational activities and parks of metro ordinances section G. It shall be unlawful to remove any natural resources from parks or to remove, disturb archaeological sites. They were supposed to place signs in parks where metal detecting is prohibited. They haven't done this yet. After August 1st 2007, historical sites like Portland Wharf, Locust Grove, etc. are off limits to metal detecting. Metro parks doesn't issue permits to metal detect parks.

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Old 12-25-2008, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddleJumper View Post
Not to mention that a lot of states are currently hurting for money and I don't know about you guys but I'd be willing to pony up some money for a hunting permit that would open up national and state forests.
I have to disagree with you there Puddle. The government has its hands in our pockets way too much and WAY too deeply now. A mere mention of something like that will stretch to any area not owned by the individual. It's already tough for some folk to get a detector, start throwing fees for licenses and permits on top of that, it'll shut quite a number out of the hobby, not to mention put some of us in the position of breaking some ordinance (not a law) and giving more of our hard earned $$ to a government that doesn't have a clue about true fiscal responsibility. Hey, it's not their money and they know where to get more of it when they want it.

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  #18  
Old 12-25-2008, 10:07 PM
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Just sounds like some pickerwood trying to be a big shot. Clip his wings

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  #19  
Old 12-25-2008, 10:09 PM
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This is the present status of the bill

08-KENTUCKY BILL HB 295 "An act relating to human remains and burial objects" This is the same bill we saw in 2007. The name is a ploy.
The real intention is to prohibit digging on private property.
Link to Bill
Bill's Status DEAD IN COMMITTEE

Link to Legislature
Link to contact your KY legislator

As for the Louisville, KY thing I can't find a single thing about it on the louisville goverment website you might want to call the parks department and find out if he is overstepping his bounds. The Parks dept don't list this as a do not do rule. Ice
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Old 12-25-2008, 10:10 PM
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Hey Brian....You may consider providing the contact info for the political contacts who can change/reverse this. Even though I live in Florida I do have relatives and friends in your state so I would be glad to send emails, write letters and make calls.

This is simply a case of arrogance cloaked in authority coupled with stupidity.

The Best thing to do is shine the light of day on the cockroaches that make these decisions and watch them scatter and try to justify their own pompous arrogance!

PS: Sometime back I had a post on this forum in which I was water hunting in a lake and was told by some Lima Delta that I was trespassing on his beach. I remember he wreaked of this same arrogant attitude and I have no doubt if circumstances where not as public he would have pulled a shotgun on me. Normally I would have said "no problem" and moved on but I decided to go toe to toe and hold my ground. He stormed off and never came back. It was an area that had been a popular beach front for a restaurant. I cleaned it out and had a very nice haul of rings and bling.
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