Same section of beach diffrent detector Excal vs CZ-21

[copperz]

So I went to the beach yesterday and when I got there I found that my excal is dead. Not even a chirp. So I spent today trying to figure out what happened to it with no luck.

So I took my CZ-21(that I want to sell) to the same beach... Before I continue let me explain how I hunt the beach:
I go up and down the beach in sections. When I come to one end of the section I turn around and swing over half of the portion that I just walked by. This makes me cover the the same area 1.5 times. Last time I went to the beach I went over the same area once more just to make sure that I got everything. In the the same area I got no new targets after an hour I moved on. So in total I covered particular area of the beach of 3 times with the excal...

Today I decided to go over the same area. Only 1 day has passed since I last went over the area and did not find anything new. Below are the pictures of the finds that the excel missed 3 times! I also got trash which is not in the pictures.

Excal vs CZ-21
The difference between excel and the CZ-21 I feel like it picks up smaller and deeper targets. Also the it has a great feature that can detect a large metal object and sound a special tone. So for the first time today I had no aluminum cans or half cans. With the excal I had to dig deep to find a can which would fill my junk finds bag really quick. The pin point feature on the CZ-21 is a lot more accurate and actually works as a pin pointer. This is great on land but also critical when in the water where you cant really see the bottom or waves are hitting you.
My CZ-21 does not fit on my bike rack because of the different design so I do have to sell it. Otherwise I would stick to using it from now on.

[Lineweed]

this is VERY interesting to me. I'm always up for excal/Sov v.s CZ20/21 comparisions. Did you hunt in the water or land?

May i know just how does the CZ20/21 fair against iron trash? I've heard it likes iron a lot but have no 1st hand experience with it. Looks like the Excal may not be the absolute powerhouse in water after all.

[Right Brain]

Does the CZ 21 discriminate well? You can't take the control box off the handle? I'm sure there's a way to modify the setup so that you can fit it onto your bike rack. That way you can keep the better detector and sell the Excal which would sell for more.

[dewcon]

Linwood.... i dont think these finds were in the water. To me thats where the Xcal excels. There is going to be a depth difference in my opinion just because of the concentric coil. All things equal with little mineralization a concentric is a bit deeper. But throw in mineralization and the need to overlap better can be a Down side. Ill just put this out there.... do you think those are recent drops and how deep were they? Ive heard good things about the CZ..... both have advantages that need to be considered when choosing the correct detector. Dont forget the YOU factor and your style of hunting. Good hunt.

Dew

[Lineweed]

Originally Posted by dewcon

Linwood.... i dont think these finds were in the water. To me thats where the Xcal excels. There is going to be a depth difference in my opinion just because of the concentric coil. All things equal with little mineralization a concentric is a bit deeper. But throw in mineralization and the need to overlap better can be a Down side. Ill just put this out there.... do you think those are recent drops and how deep were they? Ive heard good things about the CZ..... both have advantages that need to be considered when choosing the correct detector. Dont forget the YOU factor and your style of hunting. Good hunt.

Dew

yes i am aware of the difference between concentric and DD. however if we extrapolate on it that would mean the Sov also has weaker performance in dry sand than the CZ, no? You may also know that the CZ20/21 is locked in salt water mode and thus many users have said that reduces its ability to look for the deep and tiny stuff (disclaimer, I do not have one, just information I've gathered while making the detector purchase process, of which one of my considerations was the CZ)

anyway I've noticed that most here like to recommend Garrett/Minelab/Tesoro products, why not others like Fisher?

Originally Posted by dewcon

Linwood....

Dew

too much beer?

[oldbeechnut]

This past winter I hooked up with a very good CZ20/21 hunter, easyswing (Bob) We setup in the wetsand, 3 Gold bands. The Cz was deeper by 1+ inch's. But one thing I noted about the test that brings me back to the Excalibur..the shape of the coil field, due to the coils used on each of the machines. Althought the CZ was deeper, the coil had to be dead center over the target, having a cone field, Plus Bob really knew how to tune his machine for the conditions, which I feel most don't have the abilities to do so. The excalibur had no problem on the Gold ring at 14, but lost it at 15 to the CZ........My Opinion, CZ or Xcal...Both machine are very equal in many ways, the secret to both...Knowing them to the fullest, then either would be hard to beat in the right locations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3rfG...4&feature=plcp

[Surf Master]

Nice post thank's for sharing,Earl

[Crumble]

In the next month or so, I'll be buying an Excal or a CZ21, I've been trying to decide between the 2 for months now... I hear the CZ21 loves iron, and the excal has great disc, but then I hear the CZ does better on bad ground, which I have a lot of, and is slightly deeper than the excal. Arg! Going crazy...

What are your experiences with the CZ21 and iron?

[therover]

Lineweed and Crumble

CZ20/21 'locked in salt mode'. It has no adverse effects to any silver or copper targets...nor smaller ones if in the higher conductive range.

Being locked in salt mode does effect it's ability to find smaller lower conductive targets , but the difference between it and the Excal in that area ( ie, smaller, lower conductive targets) is practically the same. Being a user of both the CZ and Excal ( sold the Excal) , I never saw any marginal difference in the two units when it came to small, low conductive targets such as small gold earrings, very small gold pendants, etc.

As far as iron trash goes....only with experience and listening to all targets ( that is, running in 0 discriminate mode), will you begin to dig less iron with a CZ. It's not that they 'like iron', it's more that they trick new users into digging more iron because of the inability to hear the subtle differences as well as most new users running at higher discrimination settings and they get iron bleed into the high tone area without hearing the low tone of the iron due to it being blanked out.

Once you get your ears trained with a CZ, they are hard to beat. There is a very subtle yet distinguishable high tone for silver, copper and nickels as opposed to a high tone iron bleed and once you know that difference, a lot less iron is dug. Plus, you have to sweep the target from multiple angles and when the target hits as a repeatable high tone from multiple angles, the odds of it being iron drop dramatically.

The 3 main differences to me are.

Coil design, ground balance and tones. If you like a DD coil, auto ground balance and multiple tones, get an Excal. If you like concentric coils, manual ground balance and 3 tones, get a CZ20/21.

Since I like concentric coils, a minimum of tones and manual ground balance, I use a CZ. But an Excal can go toe to toe with it.

Dewcon stated it best..it is YOU who will use the unit, and only you know what features and options suit you best.

[Crumble]

Originally Posted by therover

Lineweed and Crumble

CZ20/21 'locked in salt mode'. It has no adverse effects to any silver or copper targets...nor smaller ones if in the higher conductive range.

Being locked in salt mode does effect it's ability to find smaller lower conductive targets , but the difference between it and the Excal in that area ( ie, smaller, lower conductive targets) is practically the same. Being a user of both the CZ and Excal ( sold the Excal) , I never saw any marginal difference in the two units when it came to small, low conductive targets such as small gold earrings, very small gold pendants, etc.

As far as iron trash goes....only with experience and listening to all targets ( that is, running in 0 discriminate mode), will you begin to dig less iron with a CZ. It's not that they 'like iron', it's more that they trick new users into digging more iron because of the inability to hear the subtle differences as well as most new users running at higher discrimination settings and they get iron bleed into the high tone area without hearing the low tone of the iron due to it being blanked out.

Once you get your ears trained with a CZ, they are hard to beat. There is a very subtle yet distinguishable high tone for silver, copper and nickels as opposed to a high tone iron bleed and once you know that difference, a lot less iron is dug. Plus, you have to sweep the target from multiple angles and when the target hits as a repeatable high tone from multiple angles, the odds of it being iron drop dramatically.

The 3 main differences to me are.

Coil design, ground balance and tones. If you like a DD coil, auto ground balance and multiple tones, get an Excal. If you like concentric coils, manual ground balance and 3 tones, get a CZ20/21.

Since I like concentric coils, a minimum of tones and manual ground balance, I use a CZ. But an Excal can go toe to toe with it.

Dewcon stated it best..it is YOU who will use the unit, and only you know what features and options suit you best.

So with the iron thing... does all iron ring up like a good targets? Is is just big iron targets or most iron (bobby pins/rusty nails)?

I have really bad ground, and I see in OBN's video the CZ wouldn't ground balance in its balance range, so he just set it at 1... that has me worried since I have really bad ground, so I'm worried I will never be able to have a perfect ground balance.

I like the idea of the Excal's wide array of tones, to give a better idea of what you are digging. I also like the idea of the CZ's silent search and faster recovery.

Sigh... I'll never decide...

[dewcon]

Opps im not a drinking man.... nor as you can tell a typing one, sorry about chopping up your name lol. Hey i like Fisher equipment, but like any detector they have their down side..... be it coil, minerals, TID, or EMI. I think it still comes down to the coil and ability to tweak the machine. Both are excellent machines worth looking at. copperz hunts in such a way, with overlapping, that the CZ may be superior especially if the target is directly under the coil footprint. I was just asking since the coins seemed clean if he thought they were recent finds and could have been found by the Xcal? He said he had hunted the beach 3 times with the Xcal, but not that same day is why i also asked about recent drops. Dont know where the Sov came in..... but it has more capability with adjustments to improve depth over the Xcal on the wet/dry sand. copperz.... id design something on that bike if that machine would net me just one gold over the Xcal..... its all about the finds baby.

Joe.... i still say it comes down to coil if both machines are equal and knowing something is there getting it under the coil makes a huge difference when both machines are capable. If you dont do what copperz does out there thou you are going to miss targets. With an Xcal.... you may miss targets because of depth, but i think the salt may make all things equal since BBS does a pretty darn good job. This means that advantage goes away.... with that its about foot print and over lapping. Oooo and opinions expressed by me may not be those of management lol. Sorry again about the name Lineweed.

Dew

Dew

[Crumble]

With the shape and size of the receive coil on the 10" CZ21, I think it would get a lot more coverage per sweep than your standard concentric with a small round receive coil.

[CanSlaw]

I used a CZ 20 for many years and did like it. In my area there is a lot of iron, depending on time of year, with broken pieces of crab traps. The CZ enjoyed sounding off on these where the Excal will null on them.

You showed that every detector can be the right tool for the right job. The CZ does discriminate better on larger objects, however the Excalibur has distinctive tones that once learned your ears become what other detectors do electronically.

Thanks for sharing what you found with the two detectors, I wouldn't turn down owning either one of them.

[Hotrod Tom]

When I wanted a water proof detector I was going between the CZ20 or the Excal. (1996) I went with the Excal because I was happy with the Sovereign that I bought about a year earlier. I think they were and are now pretty comparable. As Oldbeechnut said about getting a deep target directly under the coil is why I prefer the Excal. A few times last year in the wet sand I found very deep rings. They didn't even give a tone. When your searching in discriminate with the Excal once in a while the threshold tone will just change pitch. You go back over your swing pattern and nothing. Then you switch over to pinpoint and check slowly and then you hear the slightest repeatable signal. Go back to discriminate and sometimes but not always you can get a tone because you know exactly where it is. I think if you set the Excal correctly,drag the coil on the sand and take your time the Excal will pull deep targets but only once you know to check the threshold changes thoroughly. I dont know how many targets I missed over the years till I learned this. This is why I prefer the Excal,in my opinion it can cover more sand per hour. Any deeper on ocean where I hunt would almost be useless because the beach fills in to fast. I lose targets on almost every hunt due to the hole refilling too fast and I have a big scoop and can dig fast but I am no match for the waves. I never owned a CZ20 or 21 but I wish I had the time to learn one.

[Seawulff]

Originally Posted by copperz

My CZ-21 does not fit on my bike rack because of the different design so I do have to sell it. Otherwise I would stick to using it from now on.

Can't you break it down for easier storage and then re-assemble at the beach when you go to use it? The control box does come off the shaft, I would think that was your limiting factor? And the shaft you can reduce in size by a good amount.

[zeemang]

What hotrod tom just wrote about the excal is excellent advise. If you are swinging and you hear the threshold "cycle" to a different pitch that often signals a deep target, go back and narrow down on it.... I've dug some pretty deep targets with that little observation...

[Burbank Bob]

Originally Posted by zeemang

What hotrod tom just wrote about the excal is excellent advise. If you are swinging and you hear the threshold "cycle" to a different pitch that often signals a deep target, go back and narrow down on it.... I've dug some pretty deep targets with that little observation...

While I find the threshold changes annoying, this may be the piece of advice I've missed for deep targets. I dig when it drops out and does not null, but have not been noodling the sand for a deep target after a tone change.

[Lineweed]

Originally Posted by Hotrod Tom

A few times last year in the wet sand I found very deep rings. They didn't even give a tone. When your searching in discriminate with the Excal once in a while the threshold tone will just change pitch. You go back over your swing pattern and nothing. Then you switch over to pinpoint and check slowly and then you hear the slightest repeatable signal. Go back to discriminate and sometimes but not always you can get a tone because you know exactly where it is.I dont know how many targets I missed over the years till I learned this. This is why I prefer the Excal,in my opinion it can cover more sand per hour.

wow, what? I've heard of people talking about it but never did understand the significance. It has happened to me sometimes, maybe even more because I never pay attention to such stuff.

How deep are such signals? And what is the progression like (does it make any signal after 1 scoop or still nothing until you get the target out?) Also, does this apply for those threshold changes after a null (I get those a lot).

Originally Posted by dewcon

Dont know where the Sov came in..... but it has more capability with adjustments to improve depth over the Xcal on the wet/dry sand.

Sorry again about the name Lineweed.
Dew

nah don't worry i was just messing with you i talked about the Sov because its the sister MD of Excal, so I would assume their characteristics are the same when put into comparision with the CZs.

Since I've a Sov it makes more sense to me, progression wise, to get an Excal next. I'm interested in learning more about the CZ though.

has copperz ever told you how does the CZ sound off on iron-masked targets? this is in fact my greatest concern because its come to my attention as I predict a lot of targets are in fact, masked here.

[imalookin2]

One thing that skews your test is you hunted a day later. There were 2 low and 2 high tides if you are on the east coast US. That is enough time to easily put targets within range. The only test that would be accurate is to hunt the same day with the same amount of moisture in the sand. As the tide comes in and the sand saturates it changes depth. Seeing many pennies in your photo shows me tidal changes may have done this. Pennies suck out and flow in the surf. They are near the surface and are plentiful.