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  #281  
Old 09-11-2017, 12:03 PM
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Pulled from Skippys quote of OP:

got to go edit my new at pro video and find me some tesoro machines to test


Good, after 2 days at the end of a Tesoro, I've no doubt you'll be an expert on those as well as everything else you touch

Just when you think things can't get any more derpy......

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  #282  
Old 09-11-2017, 08:20 PM
chillforlife chillforlife is offline
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Skippy, awesome and accurate reply. Thanks for "getting it".
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  #283  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by chillforlife View post
Skippy, awesome and accurate reply. Thanks for "getting it".
You're welcome. *takes a bow*
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  #284  
Old 09-12-2017, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy SH13 View post
The problem I have with this, is that the conversation wasn't around whether or not the machines behaved differently. You didn't need us to chime in and have an "opinion" on whether or not the two machines behaved differently. They do. And you're right, we won't post a "shred of proof" that they were different. But that's not what your claim/ask was.

You noted the difference (and insinuated) there a "PROBLEM." And on top of it, you specifically asked for OPINIONs. We have had a lengthy conversation about this. You believe it's a problem, most of the AT Pro users did not believe it was a problem.

It came down to operational definition, really. You and I spoke about how a "limitation" is not necessarily a "problem." And that's the pivot point of this conversation.

No, for most AT Pro users, this limitation is NOT a problem.
In fact, we're perfectly comfortable that our machine isn't perfect in every way. But that is kind of the point of the AT Pro. It does a lot of things well in a LOT of environments (All Terrain). It's not a land-specialized machine, nor is it a water one. But as noted, if you're over a target, and you dig targets, you're going to find stuff.

Most of us will miss 10x the targets due to bad form swinging than we ever will by a response speed limitation. There's a balance in what we're doing. It was very clear, by your initial responses to folk's comments that you wanted this to be a sky-is-falling kind of event, where you "exposed" some massive problem with the AT Pro that would change all of our minds on the quality/capability of the machine. When that didn't happen, you actually reacted like there was something wrong with the AT Pro users chiming in. And then you move to make your point by saying we moved to bashing and name calling, which means we lost the debate.

Frankly, that's a cop-out. It wasn't a debate to anyone but you. And it as a hidden agenda to start with. You asked for comments about it, when you didn't like the comments, or the direction it went, you turned it into a debate. You got close in actually conversing with me, in understanding the reactions... but then it degraded again.

To be clear, there's NO refuting the empirical evidence. The machine has limitations But like I said in my posts, EVERY machine has limitations. That doesn't mean it's a "Problem." Pretending that we're ignoring a "problem" because we don't care that the XYZ Metal Detector has a faster response speed, presumes response speed is the only thing that matters to us. It doesn't. Pretending there ought to be a debate where there's a "right" opinion and a "wrong" opinion about this is just silly. Really... it's SILLY!

As an example of why... there's tens of thousands of folks out there perfectly willing to completely give-up response speed for the sake of simplicity. It's called "bell tone." In fact, this massive "problem" of response speed remove is actually a FEATURE on the AT Pro. You can turn the machine into non-Pro mode... reverting to bell-tone. It's kind of cool. Many folks use the AT PRo's bell-tone on the salt-water beaches. Machines that don't have the ability to switch to bell-tone don't have a "problem." It's actually sold as a feature! In fact, the last thing I wanted as an entry level rig was one that was difficult. I loved the ACE350 series.

It seems to me, that your comments are actually INTENDED to be inflammatory, and to draw folks into an argument. If you were really interested in what we thought, you would have accepted the answer of "it doesn't matter to us," and simply said, 'Good to know!'

Instead, 14 pages later, you've ignored what we've been saying and instead noted AT Pro users haven't "showed one piece of proof that what I said wasnt true or false."

That's not what you even asked for.

"Could at pro users please comment on this video at the 26.35 minute mark where the guy test the pro . I mean I might be off the mark but doesnt that SHOW that the at pro has some serious problems and that your missing targets?? please comment"

Basically, you've changed the narrative to "win" in this argument, which isn't even an argument for most of us. The video shows a different metal detector has better target separation. That doesn't show a "serious problem" nor does it "prove" that any of us are "missing targets." It only means another machine has better target separation ability, and that masked targets could be missed. *again, most of us miss far more targets due to other reasons... this ain't gonna be a big one*

So... let me answer you directly, in small simple and clear words, on behalf of AT Pro users who have watched the video:
Watched it... Yeah. So what? We are still happy with our rigs.

What were you really expecting as an outcome? If it's anything other than the above, I humbly submit that you might have a serious problem and that you're missing the target.

You might have enough money to swap out rigs constantly, or own three of them for different conditions... but most of us get ONE rig only. And a rig that gives us the flexibility to hunt anywhere (because it's FUN to get into the water once in a while!) is well worth what was shown in the video. If you don't get that, don't blame us.

Skippy
Calabash did more harm than good with this thread. He lost the respect of others because of his agenda. Then TNSS jumping in with his, choosing a detector is like choosing a doctor dribble, added fuel to the fire. Of course if you look at both of their spelling acumen, really, what would you expect ?

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  #285  
Old 09-12-2017, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by kajunman View post
Calabash did more harm than good with this thread. He lost the respect of others because of his agenda. Then TNSS jumping in with his, choosing a detector is like choosing a doctor dribble, added fuel to the fire. Of course if you look at both of their spelling acumen, really, what would you expect ?
Kajunman,
Don't drag me into your temper tantrums.

I have more than one Brand/model detector I use, even different coils.
For good reason too.

This we against them won't work with me.
See post # 268

You did read Calabash's post, even mine.

What does this say?

Now, you want to give your summary.
Give a summary to a thread you are not even the op of.

Curious, how many threads have you started on this forum talking about detectors?
Here is the result of a advanced search of you Kajunman.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/sear...11594856&pp=25

Here is advanced search here of myself.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/sear...11594862&pp=25

And an advanced search of Calabash.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/sear...rchid=11594871

Seems Kajunman, you are good with a knife, but you don't put yourself out there very much starting your own threads.

Try it sometimes.

You see Kajunman if this forum depended solely on you there wouldn't be much to talk about.
Make sense?

Perceptive critter aren't I.

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  #286  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:21 AM
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Now since my grammer is a little slack I'm stupid. You want to know why my grammer is slack ? I grew up in a dope addict and drunk family and quit school in the start of 9th grade to get a job . Didn't have a whole lot. Now does this make me dumb? Well later in my life I set to studying and taught myself koine greek (new testament was written in it) and know more about grammer and how that language works than my native languages grammer. Does that make me stupid cause my spelling is slack and grammer? All this because I said the pro had problems (limitations) . I have a secret agenda blah blah blah. I don't care for the pro and wonder why so many others do because the performance aint that great to me. Other land machines eat it alive, if you like your pro good for you. You guys can write all these sermons about what shouldn't be said or not but do a search of your on post , you are some of the most judgmental hypocrites ive ever seen. This is supposed to be a friendly forum blah blah blah. Ive seen you go after TN a few times so whats your problem.? The at pro is average on performance and the bell tones you speak of stink and will not separate at all . I cant figure out why so many tell people to learn their pro in bell tones ! oh yeah its cause they don't know what their doing! Go preach a sermon to others about what to say or don't say. First off get the log out your own eye then you will be able to see clearly and help others get the speck out of theirs. btw all the folks who like their pro and its limitations , peace to yhall and happy hunting. DId you check hunters video out on the ace series ?
Originally Posted by kajunman View post
Calabash did more harm than good with this thread. He lost the respect of others because of his agenda. Then TNSS jumping in with his, choosing a detector is like choosing a doctor dribble, added fuel to the fire. Of course if you look at both of their spelling acumen, really, what would you expect ?

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  #287  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:49 AM
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Bottom line here.

Criticize the detector(s), criticize the test.
Don't criticize the posters.

Read, give thoughts, agree or disagree.
Give reasons why.

Real simple.

Calabash maybe will test At Max against At Pro and post video.
Some folks may benefit or at least be interested.

Remember neither I or Calabash and many other folks here on this forum, engineered or made any detectors period.

They are what they are.

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  #288  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Kajunman,
Don't drag me into your temper tantrums.

I have more than one Brand/model detector I use, even different coils.
For good reason too.

This we against them won't work with me.
See post # 268

You did read Calabash's post, even mine.

What does this say?

Now, you want to give your summary.
Give a summary to a thread you are not even the op of.

Curious, how many threads have you started on this forum talking about detectors?
Here is the result of a advanced search of you Kajunman.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/sear...11594856&pp=25

Here is advanced search here of myself.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/sear...11594862&pp=25

And an advanced search of Calabash.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/sear...rchid=11594871

Seems Kajunman, you are good with a knife, but you don't put yourself out there very much starting your own threads.

Try it sometimes.

You see Kajunman if this forum depended solely on you there wouldn't be much to talk about.
Make sense?

Perceptive critter aren't I.
You won't ever see me bash another detector. You know why ? Because it's a hobby. Not everyone will buy an expensive detector even though they could. Not everyone will buy multiple machines even though they could. For most of us, it's a hobby meant to be fun. You and CD have an agenda. Why ? Who knows ?

What have you or CD proven by bashing another detector ? What ? Are either of you inferring that an owner of detector that you two aren't fond of is somehow lacking in wisdom because they chose a different detector than what you two recommend ?

You and CD are both condescending. I followed your Impact thread on another forum as I had keen interest in that detector. It had good info , I even defended you. However your backhanded , pithy comments towards Garrett in other threads weren't necessary. You're capable of imparting knowledge of certain detectors but you somehow let the peripherals cloud what could be an informative thread.

Allow yourself to understand that we're all in it for fun. What we have is what we have and if someone doesn't want to drop $500 to $1500 bucks on a detector , that doesn't make them any less of a detectorist than you and I.

Maybe that critter isn't so perceptive.

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  #289  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by calabash digger View post
Now since my grammer is a little slack I'm stupid. You want to know why my grammer is slack ? I grew up in a dope addict and drunk family and quit school in the start of 9th grade to get a job . Didn't have a whole lot. Now does this make me dumb? Well later in my life I set to studying and taught myself koine greek (new testament was written in it) and know more about grammer and how that language works than my native languages grammer. Does that make me stupid cause my spelling is slack and grammer? All this because I said the pro had problems (limitations) . I have a secret agenda blah blah blah. I don't care for the pro and wonder why so many others do because the performance aint that great to me. Other land machines eat it alive, if you like your pro good for you. You guys can write all these sermons about what shouldn't be said or not but do a search of your on post , you are some of the most judgmental hypocrites ive ever seen. This is supposed to be a friendly forum blah blah blah. Ive seen you go after TN a few times so whats your problem.? The at pro is average on performance and the bell tones you speak of stink and will not separate at all . I cant figure out why so many tell people to learn their pro in bell tones ! oh yeah its cause they don't know what their doing! Go preach a sermon to others about what to say or don't say. First off get the log out your own eye then you will be able to see clearly and help others get the speck out of theirs. btw all the folks who like their pro and its limitations , peace to yhall and happy hunting. DId you check hunters video out on the ace series ?
NOPE. Never said your were stupid. I like the bell tones on the ATP. You don't, does that make you better ? Again, NOPE. The log in my eye ? LOL. Maybe you haven't read that I have other detectors other than the ATP. Some are not listed.

Hunter is a Fisher/Teknetics dealer.

If you would do comparisons without the condescending, negative overtones, I think your videos would be better received. Keep doing it your way. There's a reason for the backlash. Pontificate on that for a moment.

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  #290  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:09 AM
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I have never criticized anyone for using, talking about, making a find with any detector deemed less expensive.

Actually I have given kudos.

See post #268 again.

Now, pointing out differences I see between different models, are just that.
Some may find this info helpful.
Some may not give a rats azz.

Forums are about info.
And not all the info about any any detector model will be positive.

My Deus units all have weaknesses,,CTX too, deep tech warrior too.

Folks come here looking for info,,even beginners.

Might as well tell the truth about the different models, as far as how they compare.

If we don't what good is a metal detecting forum.

A person doesn't have to spend $1000 plus to buy a good detector.

Actually can spend a lot less.

Character assisination(s) don't give info about detectors, or detecting techniques or strategies.
I know this much.

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  #291  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
I have never criticized anyone for using, talking about, making a find with any detector deemed less expensive.

Actually I have given kudos.

See post #268 again.

Now, pointing out differences I see between different models, are just that.
Some may find this info helpful.
Some may not give a rats azz.

Forums are about info.
And not all the info about any any detector model will be positive.

My Deus units all have weaknesses,,CTX too, deep tech warrior too.

Folks come here looking for info,,even beginners.

Might as well tell the truth about the difference models, as far as how they compare.

If we don't what good is a metal detecting forum.

A person doesn't have to spend $1000 plus to buy a good detector.

Actually can spend a lot less.

Character assisination(s) don't give info about detectors, or detecting techniques or strategies.
I know this much.
So are you going to let me use your impact to see if I like it ?

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  #292  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kajunman View post
So are you going to let me use your impact to see if I like it ?
Don't know what my plans are currently with Impact.
Still on loan.

I may need to use myself a bit before another it takes another road trip.
One thing, if Donsell has used a great deal.
And the detector is still working without problems.
Says a lot.

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  #293  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Don't know what my plans are currently with Impact.
Still on loan.

I may need to use myself a bit before another it takes another road trip.
One thing, if Donsell has used a great deal.
And the detector is still working without problems.
Says a lot.

It's been out for a bit now and detectorist seem to love it. It has my attention. Did you know the new Quest Pro is also supposed to be a 3 frequency detector ? 5/13/20. New version is supposed to be waterproof to 14'. They've had time to work the bugs out if all is said, is true.

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  #294  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by kajunman View post
It's been out for a bit now and detectorist seem to love it. It has my attention. Did you know the new Quest Pro is also supposed to be a 3 frequency detector ? 5/13/20. New version is supposed to be waterproof to 14'. They've had time to work the bugs out if all is said, is true.
Have read a bit about the Quest pro.

Impact got my attention too when I used/ tested.
About every old house site around here,,,worthy site for Impact.
Nasty places around these old homes.
Can turn a person off to detecting they are so nasty.

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  #295  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by calabash digger View post
Now since my grammer is a little slack I'm stupid. You want to know why my grammer is slack ? I grew up in a dope addict and drunk family and quit school in the start of 9th grade to get a job . Didn't have a whole lot. Now does this make me dumb? Well later in my life I set to studying and taught myself koine greek (new testament was written in it) and know more about grammer and how that language works than my native languages grammer. Does that make me stupid cause my spelling is slack and grammer?
Agreed. If there's anything that pisses me off more it's people who think that spelling, grammar, and punctuation are the end-all of communication. It turns out the goal of communication is to COMMUNICATE. If we can get our point across, who gives a flying rip whether or not there is a dangling participle, or we've used a preposition at the end of a sentence, instead of an object. Most of us are typing in colloquial language, anyway. Anytime I see someone attack another poster for spelling/language issues, it's an instant "that's a loser move" in my book.

A case-in-point... someone totally RIPPED UP another guys post... who spoke 5 languages, and English was one of them that wasn't native. Amazingly, the content wasn't the issue, it was the whole there/their/they're thing. Guy called the OP "stupid" about it. Anyone who speaks FIVE languages isn't stupid. LOL

Originally Posted by calabash digger View post
All this because I said the pro had problems (limitations) . I have a secret agenda blah blah blah. I don't care for the pro and wonder why so many others do because the performance aint that great to me. Other land machines eat it alive, if you like your pro good for you. You guys can write all these sermons about what shouldn't be said or not but do a search of your on post , you are some of the most judgmental hypocrites ive ever seen. This is supposed to be a friendly forum blah blah blah. Ive seen you go after TN a few times so whats your problem.? The at pro is average on performance and the bell tones you speak of stink and will not separate at all . I cant figure out why so many tell people to learn their pro in bell tones ! oh yeah its cause they don't know what their doing! Go preach a sermon to others about what to say or don't say. First off get the log out your own eye then you will be able to see clearly and help others get the speck out of theirs. btw all the folks who like their pro and its limitations , peace to yhall and happy hunting. DId you check hunters video out on the ace series ?
It most certainly IS average. But I think 99% of AT Pro users know that already. What boggles my mind, is why so many people care whether or not we choose to buy one. Clearly, it's got a fan base. Most probably because it's waterproof. That's pretty much it. If other mid-range systems that were superior, would waterproof their rigs, it'd be a completely different ball-game. But they don't. So, us "one rig" folks go with what we've got with no qualms about it.

It feels very much like this is unacceptable to folks who want to "prove" to us that the AT Pro is less than stellar. Uh... we get it. We don't care. Well, that's not entirely accurate. We care, but only to understand the limitation, so we can account for it. In your video, seeing the lack of ability to separate targets that are close like that, taught me the importance of slowing down over doubled targets. It was a great learning point, but not to the point I'd say it had serious problems. Compared to the other machine, sure. But as an EXISTING AT Pro user, a problem it was not, just something to note. If you had posted the video and provided excellent commentary to AT Pro users about how this was an important thing to note when hitting double targets, you'd have probably gotten kudos from us all for helping us detect better. Instead it was directed differently.

Now... that being said, Callabash. I went through a bunch of your other stuff. Totally dig it, man. Your Deus tones video was good. You contribute a lot, and I truly appreciate it. But this AT Pro thing, it's like you feel compelled to point out it's problems. Why? (that's a legit question, man... just trying to understand...) Is it because you think we're all being duped? I'm sorry if this got personal from me, in anyway. I'm always game for some healthy conflict. Constructive conflict is good. Passion is great. Destructive conflict, not so much...

To finish up why so many of us buy the AT Pro:

Market economics also come into play. Being the market giant, doesn't mean you have the best product, just one of the most recognized. And that brand recognition DRIVES sales. It doesn't mean consumers are duped into buying them. Quite the contrary. Average is often "good enough." Most of us (including you, I'd wager) buy recognizable products if they'll meet your needs, over an unrecognized product that MAY be better. TVs, toasters, coffee, and even peanut butter all fall into this. In fact, lots of studies show that people buy the same brands they become comfortable with, even if they're in a different part of the country or even WORLD. Why? Because we're comfortable with what we know. It's "good enough." and that's good enough for most people most of the time. Considering your absolute PASSION around MDing, it wouldn't surprise me if you also regularly reassess many other things in your consumer habits, as well. But the vast majority of people in the world are pragmatists, and will wait to see what everyone else does.

In many cases, people who buy an ACE series (one of the most popular on the PLANET), often convert to a system that "feels" the same. I know that was one reason I went with the AT Pro. Had had I originally purchased a Whites, I'd have probably gone that route... a Fisher? Probably upgraded through that path... But once I was in the Garrett product stream, seeing the AT Pro was WATERPROOF to 10', all but sealed the deal. During my research, it was clear there were better land-based machines... I even considered jumping up to a higher priced machine for even better target ID, and depth... but then jumped back because of the waterproofing, and how I was using the machine. That's really the only time I could have been swayed on the machine I was buying. Once I owned it, I'm perfectly comfortable with all limitations. Why? Because I own it. I own the fact I chose it, I own the fact it's got limitations. I'm even happy to tell others how happy I've been with my decision (it's been a FANTASTIC fit for my hunting style).

So... maybe you're trying to steer people toward a better product other than the AT Pro if they're buying. If that's the case, you should direct the commentary to potential buyers, not existing AT Pro users... Just a thought, as you'd probably get more traction. I don't think it was intentional (not after reading all your other stuff), but the demands for observations and commentary, was a lot like trashing someone's car, AFTER they already bought it. It's not going to do much, other than rile folks up... And of course... if that's the way it's feeling to AT Pro users, the backlash you're getting is predictable. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers!

Skippy

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  #296  
Old 09-12-2017, 07:45 PM
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Skippy rocks.
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  #297  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:17 PM
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You may never see the Impact again.....


Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Have read a bit about the Quest pro.

Impact got my attention too when I used/ tested.
About every old house site around here,,,worthy site for Impact.
Nasty places around these old homes.
Can turn a person off to detecting they are so nasty.

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  #298  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:44 PM
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You'd enjoy this old spot of mineTnss, closed at the time of the civil war when cotton they depended on was stopped being exported from the US.

Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Have read a bit about the Quest pro.

Impact got my attention too when I used/ tested.
About every old house site around here,,,worthy site for Impact.
Nasty places around these old homes.
Can turn a person off to detecting they are so nasty.
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  #299  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ghound View post
You'd enjoy this old spot of mineTnss, closed at the time of the civil war when cotton they depended on was stopped being exported from the US.
Good grief. I'm drooling from across the country. That would be awesome!
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  #300  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:48 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by ghound View post
You'd enjoy this old spot of mineTnss, closed at the time of the civil war when cotton they depended on was stopped being exported from the US.
Ghound, all I can say,,think long and hard about HF coil,for Deus.

Maybe not so long.

You will be impressed with depth of both.
In your soil.

What a site!!!!
Lordy.
I could live there for a long time detecting!!!

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