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  #1  
Old 09-08-2017, 12:35 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Default Deus 9" round LF, 9" round HF and elliptical HF coils discussed.

Been using this coil a lot lately.

Balance wise using this coil vs the LF 9" coil detector overall feels much better for field work.

Seems using freq bands of 28.8khz and 54khz is what sets this coil apart when using in medium minerlized dirt, perhaps even higher mineralized.

Performance in iron is increased using the higher freqs as well.
Just listening as you sweep a nail ridden area, you start switching to the higher freq bands from the 14.4khz, this coil makes what seems like each individual ferrous bit more obvious.

This coil is extremely swing speed forgiving in my soil (usually 5-6 ticks in mineral strength meter).
A person can swing this coil fast, and get depth, and separation, and even get alerts on smaller targets.

As far as running this coil,,from a noise/chirpiness standpoint,,more in line with 9" LF coil,,,quieter on average vs the 11" LF coil.

This coil when using 28.8 kHz in my soil loves lead, brass, nickels too.
If a person thinks they have extinguished all the nonferrous objects on their sites.
Folks might want to think again,,especially if your soil is medium to higher minerlized.

This coil btw will alert on some targets depending on the detecting scenario (ferrous and nonferrous layout) not necessarily depth related,,,the elliptical HF coil won't alert on.

And elliptical HF coil will return the favor here as well,,,seeing some nonferous in and around ferrous the round 9" HF coil will not alert user too.

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Last edited by tnsharpshooter; 09-10-2017 at 09:57 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2017, 01:26 AM
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just bought one today. thanks for the post.

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  #3  
Old 09-08-2017, 11:55 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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More data.
Comparing round 9" HF coil to 9" LF coil.

Over a deep nickel.

The round HF coil seems is letting this nickel through easier tonally using all freq bands.

What I did is set Reactivty to levels 0 and 1,, both coils.
And set silencer to maximum.

Using the 9" LF coil at reactivity level 0 with maximum silencer set,,,good luck finding this nickel,,,no cigar.
Advancing reactvity to level 1 with a maximum silencer I can hear the nickel.,shoddy tone, extremely burping sounding, Coil position when swept extremely critical to even get this burpy short tone.

Now using the Round HF coil with Reactivty set to 0 with maximum silencer,, tone is provided burpy sounding, coil position extremely critical-- mimmicks tone wise coil behavior position wise close to LF coil using Reactivty level 1 at maximum silencer setting.

Advance Reactivty to level one, maximum silencer a good signal,,very diggable,,much more coil position forgiving here vs LF coil equivalent settings.

The test above were done with HF coil at freqs 14.4khz and 28.8 kHz.
LF coil set to 17730 Hz.
Both coils set to
Hot program, sens 92, audio resp 5, ground balance adhieved with each coil and or freq used.
5 ticks in the mineral strength meter when pumping coil over down ground.

Might add using reactivity levels 2 2.5, 3 and 4 and with silencer set set to -1,,, round HF coil much more coil position friendly to get dig me tone. Sweep speed more friendly too(allows faster sweep when nickel is flushed vs LF coil).

Five more hours yesterday hunting using round HF coil.

Used yesterday for open field relic hunting.

This setup is the Bomb.
At least in my soil.
This coil likes irregular shaped, flat, out of round, thinner,,,but for whatever reason round like as in marbel shaped,,,this coil tries to throw tone more toward iron tone. Round object doesn't have to be deep either.

Coil using 28.8 kHz is super duper swing speed forgiving, yet it locks on tonally like no tomorrow.

I played a lot today with tracking GB.
It does work,,,but repeated swings over iron can cause it to track out. Not too many swings either.
If you lay detector down to recover target with tracking on,,,good chance it will lose track too.
For example actual ground phase using 28.8khz was around 69.
When the detector tracked out due to iron it would go somewhere around 60/61 every time.
When I layed detector down, every single time it would track to 82/83.
Beginners using this setup and if you use tracking, be mindful when laying detector down.
It can cause your discovered target to vanish if you decide to swing over during recovery phase.

A very high majority of nonferrous targets recovered today, with plug dug, and even with them remaining incredibly intact and upside down,,,swing coil over plug,,,iron tone to near iron tone produced. Finds were there alright. (Most had no iron noted in plug either)

This coil today ran nice and stable with a sens of 92 dialed in.

Them old square nails suspended vertically in the ground can throw one for a loop every now and then.

The coil using 28.8 kHz smacks lead, brass extremely well, them old flat buttons too.

Was even successful hunting in tall weeds/hay using the coil.

I look forward to seeing from feedback from folks using this detector coil setup along with the elliptical coil up around the Cullpeper area.

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Last edited by tnsharpshooter; 09-08-2017 at 03:57 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-08-2017, 05:31 PM
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Maybe if people learn ground balance system of XP Deus and they will understand why ID readings jump on HF coils.

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Last edited by bibelot; 09-08-2017 at 08:38 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-09-2017, 10:15 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Not much detecting done today.
Was ask to test a 10" deep clad dime uaing round HF coil for a gent.
So thought I would share here.

I compared the round HF, 9" LF and the elliptical HF coil over 3 different freshly buried clad dimes 10" deep in the same field.
Mineral strength meter reads 6 ticks.
Audio response 5, headphone vol6, sens dialed to 92 on all.
The HF coils were allowed only to be run at their center freq per freq band.
Plugs wer kept intact as possible, coin placed in side of hole, with a lot of stomping on the plug afterwards.
All 3 buried dimes yielded for a practical purposes the same results.

All three dimes using all three coils were compared from the best possible angle of sweeping over the buried dimes.

First off LF 9" coil,,no diggable signal, using any programs and settings I could think of. Even deep mode tx power 2 and 3.
Did not try to manipulate GB on any of the coils

Round HF coil gave best signal using deep program and freqs of 28.8 kHz and 54khz.
14khz only pecked on the dime. Reactivty settings 2 and 2.5 silencer -1,,,btw signal could be acquired even with silencer maxed.
Running Reactivty below 2.5 did seem to add some iron component to signal and made a bit more choppy.
Inwould likely stick with Reactivty 2.5 when hunting this ground based on what I heard using this coil,,,for max depth.
Reactivty 3 silencer -1,,signal a no go.
Tried hot program,,using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!!
Using 28.8khz gave a signal but not as good as deep program.
Using 54 kHz gave a signal better than using this same program and 28.8khz.

Deus fast program,,14.4khz a no go.
Using freq 28.8 kHz a signal gotten worse than signal obtained using hot program same settings.
Using freq 54khz a signal worse than hot program same settings.

GM Power actually gave the second best signal obtained.
But 14.4khz again a no go.
Using 28.8 kHz sounded smooth but weaker than deep program same settings.
Using 54khz sounded ok but had seemed more of an iron component to tone,,still Inwould dig.

Now for the elliptical.
First off Reactivty setting could be dialed to level 2 and produce morseso the no irony sounding tone similar to round HF coil-- with freqs and programs/ settings where dime was detected.

Hot program.
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!!
Using 28.8 kHz sounded nice,, weak though,,would dig.
Uaing 54khz sounded ok, broader signal,,would dig.

Deep program.
Using 14.4khz only signal I got, I would rate because I knew the dime was down there,,,would likely never dig.
Using 28.8khz nice signal, a tad more coil height (not much).
Didn't try 74khz.

Deus fast
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!
Using 28.8khz a shady signal, person better be on their game to hear this one and dig.

GM power
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!
Uaing 28.8khz a good signal I would rate a signal value wise in between signal achieved. using hot program and deep program.

These test more or less mirror a lot of what I saw when Imcompared coils over some zinc washers that have been buried since 1992/1994.

Relic hunters, maybe even coin hunters who have ground as minerlized or even moreso,,,Round HF coil and elliptical seems to have some advantage.
Depth.

Now there are also some separation advantages as well.

Seems in my area using the 14.4khz on the HF coils, would is it good for?
Certainly not depth, or separation.

Maybe it might make a good depth meter.
Reckon.
Get a signal with no iron tone using higher freqs, toggle to 14.4khz and no signal.. Yep that might tell me some thing.

In my soil it seems the round HF coil by the strength of signal I heard today comparing does have some depth advantage.

In taller grass round HF coil definitely has advantage for depth moreso.

The elliptical coil,,it just might be when you consider all things (higher mineral, depth, separation) using Deus v4 platform to be the overall most versatile setup made to date.
Too bad on the ID side of the house though.
But it will give tone.
Better than nothing.

Wish Inwould have had my deep tech warrior with me.
I would tried it too.
Maybe another day.

Cheers

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  #6  
Old 09-10-2017, 08:44 AM
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Interesting that you can hit a 10" dime with the little elliptical coil.I would have said highly doubtful but I've not much time on it yet. It did surprise me on depth of what I've been able to find with it, just was thinking that I made the wrong choice when buying of the 2 HF coils. Id jumps more so with higher frequency but ID will change no matter the frequency chosen.Thank you for taking the time to test them.

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  #7  
Old 09-10-2017, 08:58 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Ghound if you a reading.

With your soil,,,ditch the LF coil,,,go the HF route.
Your finds will increase, no doubt.

Both thinner, smaller,,and deeper.
And here is the kicker.
You will find things shallower your LF coil has missed, even at depths of 3-5".
Sounds strange don't it?

Trust me on this.
My old dontrolled site,,,it is happening using HF coils,,,head to head using LF coiL show what's happening.

For open field hunting round HF the ticket.

A thin gold coin or small gold coin in your soil,,has a much better chance of survival using LF coil, vs HF coil.

Actually I don't know why anyone hunting in Europe would want to use any of the LF coils period.
With all the old history, cobbs, and yes the gold.

Some thought Deus and LF coil was apex performer in iron and even higher mineral, now we have apex of apex.

Now you will see where some may try and promote HF coils for hunting in iron riddled sites.
These same people should be promoting even using this coil,for cleaner ground,,especially medium minerlized and higher.

What about real mild ground??
I don't have any.
But in real old sites where iron has decomposed a whole lot,,this old rust can blind LF coil easier than HF coil.
And separation advantage is still there.

I wish small elliptical had the same 54khz freq band the round HF coil has.
Would make the elliptical IMO even better for coin and relic hunting.
Still extremely good though.

Ground that already been hunted using LF coils,,,if medium or higher minerlized,,should be rehunted using HF coil(s)

Actually I can make a case, one hunt with round HF coil especially, won't necessarily be enough.
User can hunt a site behind a site busted with LF coil,,,and use round HF coil and use 28.8khz,,then rehunt and use 54khz. More finds could surface by doing.

I will continue to post all HF coil info here in this thread from now on.
This link I started though after getting the elliptical,HF coil.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=251017

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Last edited by tnsharpshooter; 09-10-2017 at 09:56 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-10-2017, 10:00 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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What I want to know is what advantage(s) do these coils may give me.

Well, here's a pic that might show one.
f

That IH under the plane of nail.
I only used the hot program thus far checking
The elliptical coil,,the IH is invisible.

Both the round HF coil and the LF 9" round will give me signal on coin.
What differences do I note between the 2 round coils?
Signal is generally cleaner with the HF coil,,when best settings are used for both.

Biggest difference in my opinion,,coil height, round HF coil yields considerable more coil height and still gives me something to investigate.

Something else worth mentioning,
Makes me wonder if version 4.0 wasn't built around this 9" round HF coil.
Why do I say this?

Because so far this round HF coil seems to link up faster,,reminds me of version 3.2 using LF coils.

My LF coil use and elliptical coil use,,,coils don't seem to link up as fast using 4.0 version.

More data.
Took round HF coil to 2 more remote sites.

This coil, closer chirpiness wise to LF coils,,maybe a tad better using 2 lower bands of freqs,,,didn't try upper band in these 2 sites.

This coil IMO not as fun overall audio wise to hunt with vs elliptical.
Disclaimer: No lightning or thunder noted in either of those 2 sites, Clouds from TD Harvery though may be charged up.

Using hot program sens at 90 28.8 kHz, Reactivty level 2.5,,sweeping detector giving quite a bit of ground feedback, running dead on GB too.
Raising Reactivty to 3 seemed to help somewhat.

Much easier to run elliptical with negative GB a few points vs this coil,,in these 2 sites.

I can also say, much easier on average to let a small find slip by using round coil vs elliptical coil.

Also, since I have several now continuous hours on elliptical coil,,,using same program same settings today in these 2 sites, audio sounded like using the round HF coil like someone turned my car stereo up from level 7 to level 10.
Blaring volume wise.

Still see no delays when turning in Deus with the round HF coil mounted.
Turn on coil is locked and loaded.
Even changing freqs, she locks and loads fast,,no beating around the bush,

More later.

Alright some comparisons using LF 9" coil at 18khz
The round HF coil
The elliptical HF coil.

10" deep nickle, cap is placed for reference and not moved,,only the nail.
Hot program used in all cases here, sens at 92 Reactivty 2.5 silencer -1, GB to ground. Zero disc full tones used, audio response 5, level six volume on wireless headphones.
Sweep down the direction of ruler and get something tonally for me to investigate.
Two way signal provided in all pics below when swept, with settings noted.
First pic below round HF coil, freq set to 28.8 kHz,,,,14.4khz will not pass this test in pic.
cc

Next pic round HF coil freq dialed up to 54khz
f

Next pic 9" LF coil at 18khz same settings otherwise.


Next pic HF elliptical set to 14.4khz
f

Next pic hf elliptical dialed to 28.8khz
f

Next pic HF elliptical dialed to 74khz
Special note here, the nail gets sparky using this freq, but I can hear the nickel signal.


Same nickle in pics above with nail removed.
Using LF9" coil and round HF coil.
Hot program used on both Reactivty at 2.5, silencer -1, audio response 5, wireless vol 6, gB to ground. TX power 2 on LF coil. Zero disc setting full tones.
Try to see how low sens wise I can go and get a good signal although weak.
9"LF coil in 18khz sens could be lowered to 68.
9"LF did in 12khz sens could be lowered to 72

9" Round HF coil.
In 14.4khz sens could be lowered to 68
In 28.8khz sens could be lowered to 62
In 54khz sens could be lowered to 60.

Elliptical HF coil same goal as above. Same settings.
In 14.4khz sens could be lowered to 82
In 28.8khz sens could be lowered to 73
In 74khz sens could be lowered to 63.

More data. The experiement above. Yesterday the ground was dry.
Today it has been soaked by soaking rain. 3" roughly, nice slow rain mostly.
So again back to this same nickel and the goal was to see how low sensitivity wise I could get a good signal although weak.
Same settings used as above.

9" LF coil
In 12 kHz sens could be lowered to 68
In 18khz sens could be lowered to 69

9" round HF coil.
In 14.4khz sens could be lowered to 69
In 28.8khz sens could be lowered to 67
In 54 kHz sens could be lowered to 63

Elliptical HF coil
In 14.4khz sens could be lowered to 85
In 28.8khz sens could be lowered to 72
In 74khz sens could be lowered to 63

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  #9  
Old 09-10-2017, 10:28 AM
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Yep, i'm reading, 9"hf is on the radar!
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  #10  
Old 09-10-2017, 11:13 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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After my testing the deep dimes yesterday,
I swept the round HF coil using 28.8 khz for a few minutes in hard hunted area.

I got a very weak signal, only 2 way signal, but repeatable.
I didn't check this target using 9" LF coil,,,would bet the farm there would be no detection on this object here while still undisturbed.
No ferrous noted anywhere near this object in a wide range of area found.

Clad dime in pic for scale.
22 cal bullet orientation in ground unknown.
At only 3-3.5" deep.

c

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